Roadtrek and Hymer

[gregmchugh]

Ah, but if they find they are compatible dating sometimes leads to marriage...

[GeorgeB]

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

Ah, but if they find they are compatible dating sometimes leads to marriage...

Yes but...it might include a dowry and support.

It's not very clear, judging by the tone of the "mutual" cooperation agreement, what Roadtrek will gain from the deal apart from new investments in exchange for access to their dealers.

What I truly hope is that it won't be only a flirt!

[markopolo]

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

All I can say is that in my mind engineering cooperation implies nothing about manufacturing, assembling, or building production vehicles. In September the announcement indicated Spartan was doing the assembly and I have seen nothing indicating otherwise since then. I think if Roadtrek was doing the assembly of production Hymer vehicles they would have made that pretty clear in these announcements. Just my take on it, I have been wrong before and will be wrong again I'm sure, but maybe not today. September announcement...

http://www.hymer-usa.com/wp-content/...ember-2015.pdf

Nice find Greg

Can't be any more clear than this from the article:

“Grand Canyon is engineered in Germany — but is produced by Spartan (Spartan Motors Inc.) in Charlotte, Mich.,” Marcon stated. “Spartan is our partner; we have defined a long-term partnership with this company and they will be manufacturing these products for us.”

Engineered in Germany.
Produced by Spartan (Spartan Motors Inc.) in Charlotte, Mich.

So what does the Roadtrek press release mean?

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by GeorgeB

Yes but...it might include a dowry and support.

It's not very clear, judging by the tone of the "mutual" cooperation agreement, what Roadtrek will gain from the deal apart from new investments in exchange for access to their dealers.

What I truly hope is that it won't be only a flirt!

Of course there are arranged marriages where at least one of the parents forces their child into a relationship unwillingly at first but to their benefit in the long term if they can at least get along with each other at first. That parent might also be expecting a dowry to compensate for the investment they made in the child no matter how short the time of their relationship with the child...

I think this whole analogy is wearing thin but I guess it is worth milking it for awhile😁

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by markopolo

Nice find Greg

Can't be any more clear than this from the article:



Engineered in Germany.
Produced by Spartan (Spartan Motors Inc.) in Charlotte, Mich.

So what does the Roadtrek press release mean?

An agreement on engineering cooperation including sharing technology, personnel, and best practices for now but no indication of the future...

[markopolo]

Clear as mud to me

I guess eventually we'll get an idea of what is going on ....... or not

[GeorgeB]

Previous post by Sunwater on the same September statement by Hymer in RvBusiness

Originally Posted by sunwater

...
EDIT: this RV Business piece from months back clearly quotes Hymer as saying Spartan is their U.S. partner, and it is Spartan that did the Grand Canyon conversion here: Hymer to Exhibit Grand Canyon ‘B’ at Open House | RV Business

Originally Posted by gregmchugh
All I can say is that in my mind engineering cooperation implies nothing about manufacturing, assembling, or building production vehicles. In September the announcement indicated Spartan was doing the assembly and I have seen nothing indicating otherwise since then. I think if Roadtrek was doing the assembly of production Hymer vehicles they would have made that pretty clear in these announcements. Just my take on it, I have been wrong before and will be wrong again I'm sure, but maybe not today. September announcement...

http://www.hymer-usa.com/wp-content/...ember-2015.pdf

That was September.
Big question mark for now. Will see if Louisville will provide more clues as how Roadtrek will be involved in that new relationship. Next episode: The Link!
?

[bobojay]

My take on what's being said is that Spartan will assemble the Hymers, RT the RT's, and they will share engineering and development costs for the North American market.

This also could be a way for RT to learn more quality assembly techniques. I also think this will eventually lead to Hymer buying RT if their "cooperation" agreement works out, as wincrasher has suggested

[wincrasher]

If we want to continue to speculate, I think how they fit together most easily is RT takes the Sprinters, Hymer does the Promasters. It makes alot of sense. Probably the Zion either goes away or becomes a Hymer product.

The Hymer brand really doesn't mean anything in NA. So retaining their name or marketing it is probably a wash. So you could see Hymer products branded as Roadtreks.

And it wouldn't effect a potential ownership of Roadtrek by Hymer. Wouldn't that be something? Everything carries the Roadtrek brand name, but it's another subsidiary of Hymer.

[BobB]

Following FitRV on their FB page. James and Stef will probably be doing a video on the Hymer. I have asked them if they can find out more about systems, fit and finish, pricing, options and availability. Also what is exact nature of RT - Hymer relationship. They will look and see and ask questions.

[markopolo]

It's a wee bit interesting that the Sept RV Business article that sunwater linked to: Hymer to Exhibit Grand Canyon ‘B’ at Open House | RV Business

Giovanni Marcon, president of the new Erwin Hymer USA division

was an interview with Giovanni Marcon when you see this Hymer news release also from Sept: ERWIN HYMER GROUP

Giovanni Marcon, a board member of Erwin Hymer Group, is leaving the company at his own request and on amicable terms, by end of September.

Activity on Hymer USA's Facebook page - https://www.facebook.com/HymerUSA/ - came back in early October after a long break.

hymer facebook.JPG

They do seem excited about entering the NA market

[booster]

That is pretty interesting, and definitely could point to a conflicting vision of how to move forward in North America, and very possibly related to the Roadtrek pairing. IIRC Daimler had issues with turnover of the US division when the had Chrysler, too.

I just took a quick look at the Spartan site, and the plant that they appear to be talking about at the Specialty Vehicle division. Big stuff, mostly. Class A chassis, firetrucks, MRAPs for the military, etc. A smaller fit and finish type product didn't really show up on the list I saw, so they are probably on a learning curve for that part. I hope they get the expertise from Hymer and not Roadtrek. It is interesting that they said they assemble the Isuzu N series cutaways.

Spartan also has a new CEO since about March, so that could also be in the mix. They just made a tiny profit in 2014 after some pretty rough times, it appears, so aren't a powerhouse in the financial parts of the any deals. They did about $500 million last year and listed 1000+ employees, but the employee numbers are often outdated.

This could turn out to be a very interesting 3 way dance. Hymer at about $1.5 billion, Spartan at $500 million, and Roadtrek at maybe $120 million(?) (but the only one with a dealer network).

[BobB]

Originally Posted by booster

This could turn out to be a very interesting 3 way dance. Hymer at about $1.5 billion, Spartan at $500 million, and Roadtrek at maybe $120 million(?) (but the only one with a dealer network).

"...(but the only one with a dealer network)" Perhaps re-word as "...(but the only one with a dealer network in North America )"

Don't forget that Hymer Group has a pretty good dealer network in Europe and for more than just the Hymer brand. My guess is they know a bit about maintaining relationships with dealers and addressing customer concerns. RT and Hymer may be sharing more than "engineering".

[markopolo]

There's this from Roadtrek's facebook page - https://www.facebook.com/Roadtrek - :

Hymer Yellowstone and Grand Canyon.JPG

It kinda sorta seems like RT is directly involved in getting those two models to market here.

[GeorgeB]

Originally Posted by markopolo

There's this from Roadtrek's facebook page - https://www.facebook.com/Roadtrek - :

Attachment 3039

It kinda sorta seems like RT is directly involved in getting those two models to market here.

Nice find!
Very interesting to see the extra careful wording!

...Will these two models be replacing models currently available from RT or additional models to compliment the current line up.

Roadtrek Motorhomes Inc.
These models will be made in addition to Roadtrek's line up. ...

I agree with Greg, they never use will be produced, manufactured by Roadtrek. The speculations tend to confirm that they will be the distributors of Spartan made Hymers. What will they gain from that apart from market shares and maybe badly needed money for investments?

[BobB]

In Europe both those models have the option of a pop-top with 2 berths. Wonder if those options will be available here. That would really distinguish Hymer from other Class Bs. I have read a number of comments on this forum of people looking for a comfortable Class B for 4. With the pop-top, you don't have to convert a portion of the RV from living to sleeping.

[GeorgeB]

Originally Posted by BobB

In Europe both those models have the option of a pop-top with 2 berths. Wonder if those options will be available here. That would really distinguish Hymer from other Class Bs. I have read a number of comments on this forum of people looking for a comfortable Class B for 4. With the pop-top, you don't have to convert a portion of the RV from living to sleeping.

True. I haven't seen any but they sure look interesting. I wonder if you can put solar panels easily. Maybe flexible one that are lighter. No AC though, but you get good ventilation.

Photo of a cute Hymercar Ayers Rock with a pop top
from a presentation I just did in our graduate studies Transport Design course.
Album at https://centrelab.smugmug.com/PERSO-...2015/n-N4jXmL/




.

[BobB]

Originally Posted by GeorgeB

I wonder if you can put solar panels easily. Maybe flexible one that are lighter. No AC though, but you get good ventilation.

.

For solar, I will be surprised if someone - maybe not Hymer, but 3rd party - doesn't figure out how to add some to the pop-top.

I am always amazed how people modify their RVs to work better.

As to heat, this is how Hymer gets heat up there; maybe something similar for A/C?

[markopolo]

Originally Posted by BobB

For solar, I will be surprised if someone - maybe not Hymer, but 3rd party - doesn't figure out how to add some to the pop-top..............

New West in Quebec has been doing it for a while now:

july 31 2011 120.jpg

[markopolo]

I think it would be good for consumers and RT employees if Roadtrek ends up under the Hymer Group umbrella. What a Class B market place powerhouse that would be!

It's all the better that Winnebago has obtained a strong position in the space. (Actually leading market share for a while now)

The competition could be intense and we'll be the beneficiaries.