resale values -- moved from a "For Sale" thread

[magicbus]

Originally Posted by Belzar

Dealers were "dealing" back then on class B's...

Not sure what you mean by Dealers were "dealing" back then. Back then when? I bought a B new last year and if I could sell mine for 80% of MSRP I would make a tidy profit.

[booster]

Here is a quick rundown of the various values and ways of calculating things for our Roadtrek. You can pretty much come up with whatever you want based on how you do it, so without the details of a calculation method, value, depreciation, savings, etc get to be pretty confusing.


Van is a 2007 Roadtrk C190P that had an MSRP (we have the sticker) of $77045.


We paid $58K


NADA low retail of $41057


NADA high retail of $49485


Current Roadtrek price for basically the same equipped van is $112400


So if we sold our van today, we would have gotten;


70.8% of purchase price at low retail


85.3% of purchase price at high retail


53% of MSRP of the van in 2007 at low retail


64.2% or MSRP of the van in 2007 at high retail


36.5% of MSRP now in 2019 at low retail


44.0% of MSRP now in 2019 at high retail


Of course this is all based on NADA as the van hasn't actually been sold for that much, and there is a good chance the NADA is too high, IMO.


Nobody really knows how much their van has actually depreciated during their ownership until they actually sell it successfully.


Personally, I like the 85.3% of paid price (for an 11 year old van), even though it is probably not accurate, but I could state that it is based on actual documented values.

[Belzar]

Out of curiosity, I checked NADA and it lists the current "average retail" of my RT CS van as $15+K more than I paid for it new 2.5 years ago, without even factoring in 4x4 . Nice if I wanted to sell, but I'm skeptical that's an accurate real world price.

[avanti]

The B-van market is way too small for NADA or its ilk to mean much. The number of transactions isn't large enough to establish meaningful averages.

[booster]

Originally Posted by avanti

The B-van market is way too small for NADA or its ilk to mean much. The number of transactions isn't large enough to establish meaningful averages.

No doubt about that, and essentially of the pricing companies have ties to the dealers and manufacturers, so they have an incentive to hold the used prices higher, so the dealers can essentially list at "book" but really be above a real market value, I think.


A good place to look is ebay, both at the listings and sold searches. Most are listed at near NADA and hardly any of them ever actually sell anywhere near that price.

[karlb]

This is reviving quite an old thread. Wonder what the original "for sale" poster actually received on the sale?

[booster]

Originally Posted by karlb

This is reviving quite an old thread. Wonder what the original "for sale" poster actually received on the sale?

It started on 12/20/2018, so not all that old. OP was just fishing for controversy and is not selling his van.


On edit, looked at the "before moved" thread which started a day earlier. I don't think we ever heard if it sold, or not.

[InterBlog]

Originally Posted by avanti

The B-van market is way too small for NADA or its ilk to mean much. The number of transactions isn't large enough to establish meaningful averages.

On top of that, there's absolutely no capture of any DIY value-add. Our rig's NADA "average retail" amounts to just two-thirds of the cash we invested into it. Perhaps more meaningfully, "average retail" per NADA is less than half of what it would take for us to purchase ANY equivalently-equipped van, regardless of fit, finish, brand, or MY (both of those reasons = why I carry an agreed value insurance policy).

In other words, these Bs can't be truly be valued on what they "are", like cars can. They should be valued on what they "do", IMO. A performance metric would produce a whole 'nuther set of numbers.

[RickBurch]

I had considered trading our 10 month old 2018 Pleasure Way Ts for a new 2019 Pleasure Way Lexor FL. We like the FL floorpan, gas generator, and larger bed on the Lexor. Plus the Lexor is around $30,000 less than the Plateau. I had fully expected a big depreciation amount, BUT not this much!

We received a purchase proposal 2 days ago from the dealer and was stunned!

Below was my reply to the dealer.

Thank you for your reply, I am stunned by the trade in amount of $85,000. My unit isn’t even 12 month’s old and less than 6400 miles, it had a MSRP of $152,760 with a purchase price of $129,900. So in 10 month’s it has lost 45% of MSRP and 35% of the purchase price or in real terms $67760 from Sticker and $44,900 from what we actually paid. Wait until I post this information on the Class B forum for prospective buyers to know about before they buy new. New units from Pleasure Way are about $5000 more in 2019, this should have slowed the depreciation somewhat. It appears to me the dealer wants to make $20000+ on the trade and another $15000+on the new unit.

I post this only for information purposes and as a reality check for anyone even thinking about buying new and then wanting to trade within a year or so. Buy what you want the first time and keep it awhile!! Like I will do!!

Wisdom has always said better yet to buy slightly used just a few years old and let the original owner take the initial depreciation hit.

[henknoordermeer]

Originally Posted by RossWilliams

The first part of that statement is true, the second part really isn't. How the market prices an RV will depend in part on what a new one costs. In fact, that will be a much larger factor in determining the current price than the original sale price. So current new prices have a LOT to do with depreciation.

That is true, but I think that's not what Booster meant. He means in the 'formula for calculating depreciation' the current new price is not used. The formula is basically:

Depreciation = 100% x (Original New Price - Current Used Price) / (Original New Price).

E.g.
Depreciation% = 100% x (100,000 - 75,000) / 100,000 =
100% x (25,000/100,000) = 100% x 0.25 = 25%

The Current new price 'affects' ofcourse the 'current used price', but so does mileage, color, region, maintenaince, rust, year etc. etc.

Does that make sense?

[RMo]

Reviving an old thread to share the calculations on depreciation that I use in evaluating asking prices and that others might also find helpful (or want to dispute ). I developed this table 5 years ago when we bought our first Roadtrek (2009 SS Agile). The numbers focus on Sprinter-based Roadtreks and were developed from depreciation numbers I came across online, along with comparisons to actual asking prices. After 5 years, I found it useful in our current search for a “new” Roadtrek.

The intent of the numbers is to let me know if a seller’s asking price is anywhere near reasonable. I make mental adjustment for mileage, features I really want etc. and I’ve been able to find, with patience, offers that meet my criteria, even during the Covid price bubble. In general, it seems dealers are more reasonable with their pricing (according to my view of reasonable) and private sellers tend to overvalue their vans.

I’d be interested in comments on how these numbers match your experiences in buying and selling.

The table was done in Excel and should be easy for you to recreate to evaluate your own purchase or potential purchase. Let me know what you think!

[Belzar]

I'm not sure calculating depreciation based on "sticker" has much use. Same with "asking price" of used vans. New Class B's, even 4-5 years ago, typically sold for 15%-25% discount off msrp, sometimes more. Based on actual cost of my factory-ordered van and a realistic current value (not optimistic asking prices) my van has depreciated about 20% over 4 years, but based on msrp it has depreciated 40+%.

[RMo]

Originally Posted by Belzar

I'm not sure calculating depreciation based on "sticker" has much use. Same with "asking price" of used vans. New Class B's, even 4-5 years ago, typically sold for 15%-25% discount off msrp, sometimes more. Based on actual cost of my factory-ordered van and a realistic current value (not optimistic asking prices) my van has depreciated about 20% over 4 years, but based on msrp it has depreciated 40+%.

Belzar - the value for me is that it gives me what I believe to be a benchmark for a reasonable price for an x year old Roadtrek Sprinter. It may not be generalizable beyond that. Is yours a diesel Roadtrek? My "good price" calculations would have your van at 46% depreciation off of MSRP after 4 years -- would that be a good deal (for me) if I were buying your van? or a little high?

[Belzar]

Hard to say if 32% off msrp is right. Seems high, but that is close to what people are "asking" right now for vans like mine. I paid less than 80% of msrp when ordered new from factory 4 years ago. A lot might depend on individual unit - 4x4 boondock-ready Sprinters are in high demand.

[jakegw2]

I sold a pop-top B a few months ago after 13 years of ownership (it was pretty heavily used as a daily driver, gardening supply hauler, camper, travel van, etc). I detailed it thoroughly and repaired every thing that broke so that every last function on the chassis and house was 100% functional at sale. Sold for 130% of what I paid for it 13 years prior within 3 days just listing locally. I think I could have gotten 140% if I had been more aggressive with the price.

(Just as a point of clarity, I purchased the van used, and while I don't know the exact price brand-new I think the overall depreciation put my sale at about 60% of the original selling price).

The point - B vans hold their value and right now is one of the best sellers markets for B vans that we have ever seen.

The current selling price DOES affect your depreciation. The recent rapid rise in prices makes used vans more attractive and raises their perceived value.

[RMo]

Thanks for the info. It certainly is a good sellers' market - we recently sold our B for 10k more than my calculations said would be a good price -- "good" definitely depends on which side of the sale you are on.


For your sale, I would have said 40% of the original price would be a good deal

after 13 years. These are not normal times, but I think deals are still out there if you are patient

[booster]

Yep, trying to guess a selling price to set one or when buying is not an exact science.



Bottom line is that the correct pricing is what people or you are willing to pay, so highly variable.


Anything we sell (never sold a B) is often older but very well maintained, and even if we price on what we think are on the high end the value, they seem to always sell to the first person to look at them. So actually we are too low or they all are not good at pricing

[RMo]

Originally Posted by booster

Bottom line is that the correct pricing is what people or you are willing to pay, so highly variable.

It certainly is variable! As I browse thru listings I have to wonder how some of them ever sell given their high prices v. my good price guidelines. Maybe the eventual sale price is much lower or the seller just waits for a buyer who is in a hurry or uninformed. Knowledge and patience are virtues.