Resale of RV Manufactured vs. Upfitted van conversion

[booster]

Originally Posted by avanti

I have reconsidered:
I guess if there were zero mechanical losses, the van/marble WOULD recover all of the gravitational energy. That is what happens in orbits. (although even then, you have to consider tidal forces and other miscellaneous losses).

So, the fact that the undulating marble would go less far must be due principally to the fact that it has to travel farther to go the same distance. So, I suppose that there is a sense in which the laws of physics permit your claim to be possible. But, only if the "MPG" you are talking about is measured in 3-D "hill" miles.

So, it is subtle: Your claim MIGHT be true (still not sure), but even if it is, you would still be better off (gas wise) picking a flat route over a hilly one.

[Not like we are off topic or anything.]

I think the thing to remember is that we are talking about linear travel like an odometer reads, not as the crow flies. Certainly you will go further as the crow flies on the flat, but not more odometer miles which is how we measure our MPG.

[booster]

Figured I would put one thing here that is probably noticed by some but I didn't mention.


The efficiency numbers I used at 70% and 100% for up the hill and down are just easy for explaining ones and not anything close to actual efficiencies of an automatic transmission gas engine drivetrain like our Chevy.


By the time you have a thermal efficiency of maybe 30% for a gas engine, the pile on the transmission, rear axle, and other stuff you might have 20-25% actual thermal efficiency or less. I have no clue what the number might truly be. The going down hill may really use no gas if the engine shuts off the fuel like our Chevy, but the torque converter will still be turning as the do work in reverse a bit to give some engine braking and keep the steering and brakes powered so there are losses there on the downhill side using up some of the gravity energy.


Since we see about a 10% increase in gas mileage in the hills vs flats in our Chevy, if we had 25% efficiency on the flat and going up hill, we would have to get 30% efficiency going downhill, to net the 10% increase to 27.5% overall.

[ks@yvr]

Why did a number of people hijack the thread with hypothetical diesel calculations when the OP was asking about “resale” of manufactured vs conversion. Please start a new thread on hills and diesel/gas consumption and go at it.

I see some really experienced forum members involved in the thread hijack, just saying.... I thought that the comments ‘on topic’ where quite helpful to the poster including maintenance of diesel vs gas, but not the marble gravity arguments and effects on fuel consumption where totally off topic.

[RossWilliams]

Why did a number of people hijack the thread with hypothetical diesel calculations when the OP was asking about “resale” of manufactured vs conversion.

As someone who participated in the initial hijacking process, I totally agree. The question of diesel vs gas is really only relevant as to which holds its resale value better. Or perhaps more precisely whether there is a difference between manufactured and converted versions of the two fuels.

Right now, diesels hold resale value better. Given that the chassis is the same for both converted and manufactured versions, I doubt it makes much difference between the two. Unless there are modifications to the chassis, it is going to hold its value the same for either.

At least, that is the rational outcome. In the real marketplace it may be that diesel has an image of durability that spills over to the coach. That spill over may be more important for the converted version than the branded manufacture.

[booster]

Originally Posted by ks@yvr

Why did a number of people hijack the thread with hypothetical diesel calculations when the OP was asking about “resale” of manufactured vs conversion. Please start a new thread on hills and diesel/gas consumption and go at it.

I see some really experienced forum members involved in the thread hijack, just saying.... I thought that the comments ‘on topic’ where quite helpful to the poster including maintenance of diesel vs gas, but not the marble gravity arguments and effects on fuel consumption where totally off topic.

As one of the offenders on this, as were, as you mention, other senior members, a bit of explaining may be in order, not to justify but just to put a bit of history on it.


We have some posters here who will take any thread and start posting marginally related statements that have been at best controversial on many, many, other threads in the past. The goal seems to be to try to get the last word by posting the same, IMO, debunked or inaccurate, claims in as many threads as possible. If unanswered, those dubious statements stand alone and could be the source of, again IMO, bad information that new members or other searching for help on the forum.


This has invariably led to wandering off topic threads recently many times. Often the threads go on so long nobody would even recognize them.


You can request the mods move or delete the off topic stuff, and often that is very justified, especially moving any good information and/or discussion to a another thread or new thread. I don't think you would have anyone complain that their comments were moved or deleted.

[VanFan]

Originally Posted by booster

So now all the torque at lower rpms you have bragging about being so great compared to gassers doesn't matter? just because you found out a non turbo Chevy has better specs?

Why can't you just disagree in a civil fashion? We get enough of this tone over at the comments sections of news sites. It would be nice if we could all be friendly here.

[booster]

Originally Posted by VanFan

Why can't you just disagree in a civil fashion? We get enough of this tone over at the comments sections of news sites. It would be nice if we could all be friendly here.

No excuse, guilty. I also agree completely. Patience can get pretty short when the same tired arguments get generated repeatedly, by the same posters, along with insults, of course. The above comment was to address an issue for the umpteenth time all over the forum probably dozens of times in the past and still gets inserted in lots of place that are unrelated as the wandering of this discussion has shown. I think you find very, very, few on this forum that are happy with the way things have gone of late, especially in the longer term members, as the it appears that the whole place is starting to careen of the rails sometimes.


This comment also doesn't belong here and if deleted I am perfectly fine with that.

[Bud]

Originally Posted by booster

No excuse, guilty. I also agree completely. Patience can get pretty short when the same tired arguments get generated repeatedly, by the same posters, along with insults, of course. The above comment was to address an issue for the umpteenth time all over the forum probably dozens of times in the past and still gets inserted in lots of place that are unrelated as the wandering of this discussion has shown. I think you find very, very, few on this forum that are happy with the way things have gone of late, especially in the longer term members, as the it appears that the whole place is starting to careen of the rails sometimes.


This comment also doesn't belong here and if deleted I am perfectly fine with that.

BS booster.

Your quote: "So now all the torque at lower rpms you have bragging about being so great compared to gassers doesn't matter? just because you found out a non turbo Chevy has better specs?" was a 'Masterpiece in Restraint', well done. Could you be a nice guy to a fault? is more like it.

Bud

[VanFan]

Originally Posted by booster

No excuse, guilty. I also agree completely.

Nobody's perfect, but it takes genuine humility and maturity to acknowledge it and apologize. You have my respect. Now go and sin no more.

[RossWilliams]

it takes genuine humility and maturity to acknowledge it and apologize.

I don't think it really does. Some people simply apologize when called on their bad behavior as casually as they misbehave in the first place. The problem here is hijacking a thread that identifies a real issue of the relative resale value of custom upfitters vs manufacturers with an irrelevant gas-diesel holy war.

I bought a diesel because I knew/thought it would hold its value longer whether I kept it or resold it. I also bought a Roadtrek for that same reason, for good or ill. I don't think I am the only one who did that. We live in a culture where brand matters, particularly when assessing real quality is difficult for the typical buyer.

[GeorgeRa]

Life is too short.

[booster]

Originally Posted by VanFan

Nobody's perfect, but it takes genuine humility and maturity to acknowledge it and apologize. You have my respect. Now go and sin no more.

The problem, I think, is not whether the comment was uncivil or not, which I think it was, but at the same time I think was needed based on how it was caused, as there is a lot more going on. Being civil in the current atmosphere of the forum isn't easy for one thing due to antagonistic situations created by folks that don't care about civility in their attitudes and also seem to thrive on trying to create conflicts and relentlessly argue with everyone about everything. I seriously doubt many of us would be able to sustain civility in the barrage of things that have been going on lately.


This is exactly the stuff that destroys good forums. A few come in and cause all kinds of problems, driving away all the "civil" people who actually have something useful to say and make the forum work.

[VanFan]

Originally Posted by booster

I seriously doubt many of us would be able to sustain civility in the barrage of things that have been going on lately. This is exactly the stuff that destroys good forums. A few come in and cause all kinds of problems, driving away all the "civil" people who actually have something useful to say and make the forum work.

I don't follow this forum closely enough to know what you mean about "things that have been going on lately" or who you have in mind specifically (and I don't want to know) but with trolls it's always best to ignore them, carry on as if they aren't there, and resist the temptation to sink to their level. If enough people do that the trolls usually get bored and move on.

[Bud]

"I don't follow this forum closely enough to know what you mean ....."

Exactly, and you meant no harm, just late, just understanding what you don't understand.

Good forum.

Bud

[booster]

Originally Posted by VanFan

I don't follow this forum closely enough to know what you mean about "things that have been going on lately" or who you have in mind specifically (and I don't want to know) but with trolls it's always best to ignore them, carry on as if they aren't there, and resist the temptation to sink to their level. If enough people do that the trolls usually get bored and move on.

This is the wrong place for it, but ignoring hasn't worked in this case because the players get onto every useful discussion and fill it full of bad information and attacks, repeated and repeated until the threads are useless. Heck, we had one last week that was attacked that way, cleaned up by mods, and the very first post after went right back at it again so it got locked.

[Snowy]

With regard to the original question - would a custom make have lower resale value - i think this depends upon who did the upfitting and how "unique" your design is. If you have a custom made by a known quality upfitter like Sportsmobile or ARV, i wouldn't worry about resale - people will know that the build was done right.

As to the uniqueness of design - if you create a custom design that others are less likely to want, then resale can suffer of course.

Just to weigh in on the diesel issue. Please take into account that Mercedes' implementation of emissions controls is where the real problem is. American-built diesels are more tolerant of biodiesel and other "weird fuel" problems. Also American diesels do not have the dreaded 10 starts/limp mode problem. So while you may have had good experiences with older or domestic diesels, be wary of the modern diesel Sprinter.

[Davydd]

Advanced RV or ARV as the are known now, a 7 year old company, is kind of a unique situation. When I last talked to them in May they said there was only one ARV for sale in the "wild" as they said was ever on the market. They have bought back most all their vans for various reasons such as health of the owner, trade in, or just not what they have thought Bs where for them, or whatever. They refurbish, update and resell them and a few go into their rental program. Maybe someday my "Alvar" will be in that situation--the first electrically operated articulating beds in a Class B.

[RossWilliams]

Did ARV say how they determined a fair price? It would be an interesting business model if they could guarantee repurchase. I suspect there are a lot of people, like the OP here, who don't think they will wear out their RV before they wear themselves out.

[Thevon]

I bought a well taken care of 2006 Chevy RT from the original owners a few years ago and couldn’t be happier with my purchase. So far I’ve put 13,000 miles on it with no issues. It’s easy to work on and if it’s something serious, any garage can work on a Chevy van. As far as the house systems are concerned, they are not complicated and there are enough gurus on this forum that can usually pinpoint a solution. If I wear out the engine or more likely the transmission, I’ll just replace it. I’m guessing it wouldn’t be hard to find a good mechanic who can replace a Chevy transmission or engine...yes, it will cost sone money but probably a lot less than depreciation on a new(er) class B. I bought it knowing there was no warranty and if I can’t figure out a problem after consulting the forum gurus, I’ll just take it to a mechanic. Buy what you buy for the enjoyment of free spirited travel and don’t fret over what it might be costing in resale value or it might decrease your enjoyment and blessings of being able to do this in the first place.

[Camoman]

What year is your truck and which Lance camper ? How much will u be selling it for ?(if you know).
I am in the the trucking industry and we have had TERRIBLE EXPENSIVE experience with the newer electronic controlled diesels that are medium and light duty. The semi truck versions are much better.
Their repair costs and tows SIGNIFICANTLY out cost their fuel savings. The only ones we have had any luck with are the cummins like the one in your dodge, however, the older mechanical 5.9 is still 100% more reliable than the newer electronic ones.

Unless you are going to buy new or still under warranty, I would personally not buy a diesel van. They are very cramped engine compartments and therefore time consuming and even more expensive to fix. Now if you can afford.to trade in before the warranty is up, fine, but that is also extremely expensive and it sounds like that's not an option for yall.

To be perfectly honest, on a budget a nice slide in in a pickup truck is far more roomy and reliable and cheaper to fix even if it's an electronic diesel truck engine.

I'm assuming that climbing in and out of the slide in and perhaps the raised bed is the problem as yall age, but perhaps a custom slide in on a lowered pickup truck w air suspension that can be dropped would suit y'all.
In fact, a used mechanical cummins early 90s dodge 4x4 could be made front wheel drive only and then have the rear entrance as low as a class b. Thats pretty radical customization, but for the money of a new class b, it is pretty easy to go crazy radical with something used for the same money.

Or if you don't drive millions of miles, the 90s dodge v8 and v10 gas engines run forever with nearly no maintenance and we've also had good luck w the Ford v8s and v10s, we have a 5.4 gas Ford w nearly 400,000 on it and the oil still looks like new and we've only changed plugs and a few coil.packs(and the oil of course). it's a 1998 and gets about 11mpg(it's the super maxi). However it is overhead cam, so if there is a problem it's a little more tricky to fix, but it helps w gas mileage.
Do the math on the mileage yall actually run before spending for a diesel, because out of warranty THEY ARE BRUTAL TO REPAIR. my best friend had to spend nearly 6 grand on his 2014 Chevy 4x4 diesel to get it to run right before he could sell it for 12 grand. He bought it new and was only In the 200000 mile range. He now pulls his 30' boat w a hemi dodge and NEVER has to fix it and he has more than 200000 on that now...and he bought that used and it's a 2013 and he beats the crap out of it(drives like an *******).
Sorry for the length but I have some experience in these areas. In fact I still own a rare 1986 chevette w a factory Isuzu diesel. Only 32mpg and you have to pull the engine to change the starter...lol but it's kinda cool.