Repairs vs. maintenance... does it even matter???

[Lennie]

I'm in San Diego and I purchased the RV from a place more inland (where the original and second owners lived) and it still has rust. It was getting worse in San Diego but it had rust when I bought it. I sanded down most of the areas and repainted them, I'm not a great painter but it looks a lot better than rust.

The dealer wanted to replace my fuel sending unit but it's not what is leaking. There is a leak somewhere in the filler tube (I suspect someone used a truck stop pump to fill the tank). He also wanted to replace most of my locks which were sticking (they needed to be cleaned and lubed). I get somewhere between 20 and 22 mpg. I waited to replace the bad glow plug, I waited to do the rear brakes, oil change and a few other things. I do know how to do some car repair, I choose not to work on the Sprinter. I knew the brakes had another 1K or 2K left, turned out to be around 1K.

Mine is a TS. I usually am trying to get out of Southern California, plus I have a remote that texts me if the temperature starts climbing but I mostly take my dog with me. It has really low miles but it was neglected which is almost worse than higher miles. It has only one house battery. Most of it still original, I replaced the fire extinguisher, LP, smoke and Carbon Monoxide sensors last year, they were 10 years out of date, turbo resonator, turbo hoses, lots of stuff like that which don't age well. I didn't want to finance a RV so I'm paying now. If I had waited a year, the same model in better condition came on the market but that didn't happen so I'm making the best of it.

If I'm in a RV park with free showers then I use theirs, if I have to pay or there isn't one I use mine. Drying the walls is kind of a pain but it's doable.

[InterBlog]

Originally Posted by Roadtrek Adventuous RS1

I don't know.. maybe it's because there were some neglected items hidden on my RV?

We did drive 15,000 miles the first year..but, here's some numbers...

OK, so, the broken sewer line was $1,000; new tires, $2,000, batteries $1,500, Shocks, track bar and anti-sway bar ..$3,200.. Glow plugs, $800 , Broken macerator pump and gate valve replacement $1,100 and other smaller items like the propane sensor.... Maintenance.at dealershp and independent garage. $3,000 or more.......

THAT ^^ is a pure crap show.

We would not own our Class B unless we were dedicated to DIY. For our financial profile, it would be an unwise use of our savings, which have to cover everything from retirement to medical to recreation, to spend the kind of money on a Class B that it would take to get what we want. It's almost all DIY for us, or it is no Class B in our lives. We have accepted that.

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

Originally Posted by avanti

Your living in Los Angeles is irrelevant. Yes, costs are higher, but that doesn't make Sprinters more expensive than other vehicles. EVERYTHING is more expensive.

It does NOT say that. It says "every second MAINTENANCE service". If you read the book, you will see that "Maintenance Service" is another name for "B service", so you vehicle's first fluid change is scheduled at 40,000 miles. You have done two already. Utterly pointless.

I have explained all of this before, but you continue to repeatedly post inaccurate information about what Mercedes recommends. I would be ignoring these posts, except that it is important to correct the record.

Again: Spend your money any way you or your "trusted mechanic" see fit. Just don't blame Mercedes if you choose to do totally unnecessary service.

And what do you mean that the transmission service "was not a really big part of my costs"? You have reported that you pay $1-200 for an "A" service, but $825 for a "B" service + transmission flush. That is a big difference, and if the bulk of it isn't the transmission service, I don't know what is. Fuel filter?


Yet again: That is NOT maintenance, that is repair.

You keep telling us that you believe things like "You can't 'over service' your vehicle". That statement is absurd, IMO. But, if you choose to believe stuff like that, then I suggest you come to terms with the financial consequences of such a belief.

You know.... I looked very carefully at the work I had done by the Mercedes Benz
dealership....at 26,500 miles....... here's where the devils in the details.....

Apparently, the dealership did change the transmission fluid, but, there's no evidence that they changed all the filters associated with the transmission.... which is WHY my mechanic reported that the fluid was pretty dirty at 43,000 miles..... here's my thoughts on this...

I can't trust the dealership completely ..and while they did change the fluid it was only half way...at 43,000 miles which is the 40,000 miles that you keep telling me..it's now been officially changed with all of the proper filters.... and I know it for a fact......I now have a solid benchmark for the transmission service.....

I'll go ahead and wait for another 40,000 miles and get it changed just over 80,000 to 83,000 miles.... we'll see how the transmission fluid looks at this point.... assuming I keep the vehicle until then, I'm still evaluating that......

As for your sanctimonious attitude telling me that I'm wasting my money on all this preventative maintenance... my answer to you is do whatever you want.... I know what I did... As in your statement about the "over services"....

I'm very proactive in keeping my cars and RV in excellent condition on the road...all the time. I do everything possible to avoid a mechanical failure....

I guess the "second maintenance service" in your case for the transmission is 80,000 miles?

Look.... your continued assertion that it's living in LA has no bearing on the rate people including mechanics get paid is so out of line... laughable..... what part $200 per hour don't you understand???

Sad.

[booster]

Just how many filters does your transmission have? I just looked at half a dozen different 5 speed MB Sprinter service kits and they all contained exactly ONE, like nearly every other trans around unless it has added an extra external one.


Filter changes, or not, usually will have only a small influence on the fluid dirtying. A change normally only gets half the fluid anyway, and the kits would support that at 8 quarts which is likely about 1/2.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by Roadtrek Adventuous RS1

You know.... I looked very carefully at the work I had done by the Mercedes Benz
dealership....at 26,500 miles....... here's where the devils in the details.....

Apparently, the dealership did change the transmission fluid, but, there's no evidence that they changed all the filters associated with the transmission.... which is WHY my mechanic reported that the fluid was pretty dirty at 43,000 miles.....

How did your mechanic determine that the fluid was "pretty dirty"? Did he or she have a fluid analysis done at a lab? You can't tell a thing by simply looking at the color of the fluid:

Automatic transmission fluid also tends to get darker, and more brown in color as it ages. This is normal and does not indicate a problem. The dye used in the fluid changes over time and color change is to be expected.

AGCO Automotive Repair Service - Baton Rouge, LA - Detailed Auto Topics - The Color of Automatic Transmission Fluid

As for your sanctimonious attitude telling me that I'm wasting my money on all this preventative maintenance... my answer to you is do whatever you want.... I know what I did... As in your statement about the "over services"....

I have said over and over again that you should spend your money however you see fit. But, if you start a thread about the excessive costs of owning a Sprinter, I'm afraid that I fail to see why I am out of bounds by suggesting that expensive and uncalled-for service operations might have something to do with it.

I guess the "second maintenance service" in your case for the transmission is 80,000 miles?

As I have said several times, my MY2014 has 15K service intervals, so my required transmission service is 60K miles, which I will be careful to do.

Starting in MY2015, the OCI has been changed to 20K miles, and the required transmission service has changed to a one-time service at 80,000 miles. This is not the least bit unusual in modern vehicles and fluids. Unless your transmission is having problems, the fluid does not degrade for a very long time. This is because it does not come into contact with combustion products. As I mentioned before, if my fluid really was "dirty" at 20K miles, I would want to know why, since it would almost certainly indicate a mechanical problem.

Look.... your continued assertion that it's living in LA has no bearing on the rate people including mechanics get paid is so out of line... laughable..... what part $200 per hour don't you understand???

For the second time: I never suggested that things weren't more expensive in LA. What I said was that EVERYTHING was more expensive in LA. Thus it is irrelevant to the claim that Sprinters were unusually expensive, as you keep claiming.

I think I am going to bow out of this discussion, and likely future threads that you may start. Please do not take this personally. It is just that given my frequent need to repeat things I have already said, it is becoming clear to me that you do not actually read what I write very carefully. As others have said, you seem far more interested in hearing support for what you already believe than a rational examination of the facts.

Over and out...

[GallenH]

I have to agree with avanti and the others: time to wind this down. I've owned several British cars. Talk about money sinks. You'd think I would learn. But I actually did. After the 2nd one I cut my losses and said never again.............although the upcoming totally electric with the classic Jag 60s XKE body is pretty interesting. Couldn't afford it though. Back on topic. You've got to get balanced. RoadTrek: hopefully costs will level off for you. If they don't, maybe you have to cut your losses.

But on another point of the discussion, everyone has options. I just went to Glacier. I could have taken the Empire Builder train up there and stayed in one of the classic lodges. I'd actually enjoy that. BUT the main reason I like the RV is that I always liked camping. I always liked being tucked away in a campground; especially one that you couldn't pull a big 40-footer into. The B is........cozy. That quality is probably why all on this forum oriented towards Bs. But.......back to the British car.......if owning one is a PITA, then it might.......just might......be better to look to something else.

[booster]

Just a couple of points here, based on past experience and personal biases.


Transmission fluid is very easy to mistake for dirty early on in it's life, and mechanics routinely take advantage of that point. Most of the mistake is caused by the fact that you only get about 1/2 of the fluid out at a fluid change unless you use a flushing machine. Mechanics will pull the dipstick, if it has one, or somehow get a sample of the fluid and put a drop on a paper towel, then put a drop of new fluid next to it. They almost always will look different, with the used fluid losing the "bright" pink color and have a touch of greyish tinge to it in most cases. This happens in less than 1000 miles, and probably within the first 100 miles and isn't an issue. How much different it gets will be determined mostly by how dirty the fluid was before the change. Many/most consumers have no idea that the difference is not harmful in a lot of cases and spring for a transmission service. Of course, there are many vehicles that need a fluid change out there as it is very often ignored. If the fluid is starting to look toward black and is losing all the red tint, or if it smells like hot brakes, it is time to change it for sure. Other than that, only an oil analysis will tell you much, especially about additive loss, viscosity, etc.


In general, I think going by any amount of miles to determine trans service intervals is an exercise in futility, especially in a heavy van. A hundred miles in the mountains, can easily equal 1000 miles of freeway fluid stress, I think. Rolling hills with lots of near full power downshifts are another thing that is hard on fluid and clutches in transmissions. The newer vehicles have gotten better, though in a lot of shift related wear things in that they do a good job of removing power during the shift, and the drive by wire matches RPMs better.



I am surprised that they haven't put oil life monitors on the trans oil yet, at least that I know of, as it is probably an even better application for one than the engine oil because of no external contamination like combustion products. It may be the the marketing folks won't let them do it because some people would be getting too frequent service lights, especially the in town delivery folks.

[Paul the Gardens]

Originally Posted by avanti

How did your mechanic determine that the fluid was "pretty dirty"? Did he or she have a fluid analysis done at a lab? You can't tell a thing by simply looking at the color of the fluid:



AGCO Automotive Repair Service - Baton Rouge, LA - Detailed Auto Topics - The Color of Automatic Transmission Fluid


I have said over and over again that you should spend your money however you see fit. But, if you start a thread about the excessive costs of owning a Sprinter, I'm afraid that I fail to see why I am out of bounds by suggesting that expensive and uncalled-for service operations might have something to do with it.


As I have said several times, my MY2014 has 15K service intervals, so my required transmission service is 60K miles, which I will be careful to do.

Starting in MY2015, the OCI has been changed to 20K miles, and the required transmission service has changed to a one-time service at 80,000 miles. This is not the least bit unusual in modern vehicles and fluids. Unless your transmission is having problems, the fluid does not degrade for a very long time. This is because it does not come into contact with combustion products. As I mentioned before, if my fluid really was "dirty" at 20K miles, I would want to know why, since it would almost certainly indicate a mechanical problem.

For the second time: I never suggested that things weren't more expensive in LA. What I said was that EVERYTHING was more expensive in LA. Thus it is irrelevant to the claim that Sprinters were unusually expensive, as you keep claiming.

I think I am going to bow out of this discussion, and likely future threads that you may start. Please do not take this personally. It is just that given my frequent need to repeat things I have already said, it is becoming clear to me that you do not actually read what I write very carefully. As others have said, you seem far more interested in hearing support for what you already believe than a rational examination of the facts.

Over and out...

I was just thinking the same thing : '' seem far more interested in hearing support for what you already believe than a rational examination of the facts''

[hepcat]

Originally Posted by Roadtrek Adventuous RS1

When I first got my RV...I thought...OK... there's going to be a few repairs, it's a 2012 model that I purchased in 2017.... however, it's extremely low mileage and was in immaculate condition......

What I didn't realize was how cyclical these things are.. batteries, tires, macerator pump, shocks, propane sensor.. I don't know.. maybe the cracked sewer hose that's a plastic part permanently attached to the rig??

Regardless of what you want to call it...it's all money ...and you can't ignore it...

Now I realize that some of you on the forum have the skills to do all of these repairs yourself.... but, you still have to purchase the replacement parts.....so, while it's certainly costing me more...it's still an expense to you as well....

I'm probably going to sell my RV in three years... just to get a little more time from all the things I already did... which were very extensive....and IF things settle down maybe I'll consider keeping it longer.... we'll see...

In the meantime...I'm keeping a close eye on the repairs and maintenance...it adds up very quickly.... don't know how anyone can live in a place requiring this much work.... thankfully I don't have to do that.

I wonder how many people out there with a 2012 model have as many issues as what I've experienced... maybe it's just because it's a Roadtrek and Mercedes Benz..?? It's not just the RV repairs... although they seem to be the larger part of the expenses....it's the vehicle as well.... maintenance on the diesel is very expensive even with my independent mechanic...at 20,000 miles service, it cost me over $800 ...... Takes a lot of money to properly maintain these engines...

Hope your experience is better than mine..... we're still having fun..but the cost is a lot....
I think I could have stayed in some really nice hotels and just taken my car.......

I don't think I've had that much work in the three years and 40,000 miles I've put on my 1995 Ford van as you've had. I did a bunch of deferred routine maintenance stuff when I first bought it because it'd sat unused for nearly twenty years... new water heater, generator work, all drivetrain/chassis fluids, shocks, brakes, ball joints, belts, some hoses, plugs, a fuel pressure regulator, and tires. But nothing recently. It'll probably be ready for tires again in another 20k miles. I think the only thing I've replaced in the coach since I bought it is the coach battery and the kitchen sink faucet. I have had to replace the cable ends on the door lock actuators on the side and rear doors; a common problem on Ford vans. The parts are about $2 per cable. Tomorrow it goes into the shop for a new power steering pump and hoses as mine started leaking last week. I suppose that'll be a couple of hundred dollars.

I've put 40k miles on it in three years, and I don't think I'm into it for $12k yet total, including the purchase price.

[hepcat]

Originally Posted by Roadtrek Adventuous RS1

I don't know.. maybe it's because there were some neglected items hidden on my RV?


OK, so, the broken sewer line was $1,000; new tires, $2,000, batteries $1,500, Shocks, track bar and anti-sway bar ..$3,200.. Glow plugs, $800 , Broken macerator pump and gate valve replacement $1,100 and other smaller items like the propane sensor.... Maintenance.at dealershp and independent garage. $3,000 or more...

Ok, unless there's something VERY special about the Mercedes chassis, you've been taken for a ride, my friend. I had TWO anti-sway bars installed, one at the factory in Vancouver WA and one by my local mechanic on my Chevy Kodiak chassis. The rear bar AT THE ROADMASTER FACTORY was $800 installed and the front was $350 installed locally. A broken sewer line should be under $20 in parts... and unless the chassis has to be disassembled to replace it, should only take about an hour, two if it's a problem. I confess I've never owned a toilet with a macerator pump, but a gate valve is about $12. I put Firestone E-range radials on my van in Boontoolies Oklahoma, and they were $180/corner, or about $800 installed.

I can't address the diesel chassis maintenance expenses as I've never had one, but I can tell you that's the reason I won't buy one either. Even my Kodiak-chassis motorhome has the 8.1L gasser in it. The maintenance on diesels in general isn't (IMO) worth the expense.

Please tell us where you take your RV for service... so we can all avoid it!!!

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

Originally Posted by hepcat

Ok, unless there's something VERY special about the Mercedes chassis, you've been taken for a ride, my friend. I had TWO anti-sway bars installed, one at the factory in Vancouver WA and one by my local mechanic on my Chevy Kodiak chassis. The rear bar AT THE ROADMASTER FACTORY was $800 installed and the front was $350 installed locally. A broken sewer line should be under $20 in parts... and unless the chassis has to be disassembled to replace it, should only take about an hour, two if it's a problem. I confess I've never owned a toilet with a macerator pump, but a gate valve is about $12. I put Firestone E-range radials on my van in Boontoolies Oklahoma, and they were $180/corner, or about $800 installed.

I can't address the diesel chassis maintenance expenses as I've never had one, but I can tell you that's the reason I won't buy one either. Even my Kodiak-chassis motorhome has the 8.1L gasser in it. The maintenance on diesels in general isn't (IMO) worth the expense.

Please tell us where you take your RV for service... so we can all avoid it!!!

Give me a a little time; later today, I'm going to send you a private reply.

[buzzard28]

You have to look at your RV as a toy. I could never make a case that it is a good investment from a purely financial point of view.

[Thevon]

Wow, I know vehicles are different, but I have a 2006 190P and I replaced my macerator pump and both gate valves for about $110. Yeah, I did it myself, but the hardest part of that job was getting under the vehicle.

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

Originally Posted by buzzard28

You have to look at your RV as a toy. I could never make a case that it is a good investment from a purely financial point of view.

YES, RVs are toys... but, so what?

I've got a friend who's exactly my age... refused to retire .. could have easily done so five years ago.... said... "I have to work until I'm 70"... I don't want to run out of money"...

My friend of 47 years is home dying on hospice.. running out of time.

Guess what... life's a balancing act.

I purchased my RV to enjoy.. we are, but, it's cost me much more in "up front costs" than I expected.

Hopefully, all of these capital improvements and repairs will level off .. I think they will and I'll be able to continue using it for at least 3 more years.... after that, I'll re-evaluate the situation.

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

Originally Posted by Thevon

Wow, I know vehicles are different, but I have a 2006 190P and I replaced my macerator pump and both gate valves for about $110. Yeah, I did it myself, but the hardest part of that job was getting under the vehicle.

My pump alone was $225... plus the gate valves.

They found that there was "plastic" in the plumbing and had to remove all of this debris. Ugly, I know. Prior owners grandkids, we think threw something down there.

In the year we had our RV.. only number 1... have been very careful.

Main difference is ... you have the technical expertise to do this yourself... all of us are not so lucky.

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

Originally Posted by InterBlog

THAT ^^ is a pure crap show.

We would not own our Class B unless we were dedicated to DIY. For our financial profile, it would be an unwise use of our savings, which have to cover everything from retirement to medical to recreation, to spend the kind of money on a Class B that it would take to get what we want. It's almost all DIY for us, or it is no Class B in our lives. We have accepted that.

Yeah, there's lots of things I would never advise people to do themselves... brain surgery, being your own attorney, and YES, working on your RV is you DO NOT know what you're doing.

I know my limitations.. and I don't have the skills to repair my own rig.

So, I purchased a fairly late model rig in good condition. Unfortunately, a lot of deferred maintenance stuff and normal wear and tear items all failed at once.

Now that these are all fixed ... should be a little easier.

People who attempt to repair things and get over their heads can do a lot MORE damage causing more expenses.

I know... because I trusted a neighbor who said... I've worked on RV's and can fix your dump hose problem for less money.... they botched the job and I had to pay a lot more to have it fixed properly. I've learned my lesson on that one.

[booster]

There have been numerous reports of plastic in Roadtrek tanks that have wrecked macerators, likely from drilling the sensor and connection openings and not cleaning the tank well enough. It wouldn't matter much when it was gravity dump, but is death to a macerator. Just another sloppy quality point for Roadtreks of that era.

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

Originally Posted by booster

There have been numerous reports of plastic in Roadtrek tanks that have wrecked macerators, likely from drilling the sensor and connection openings and not cleaning the tank well enough. It wouldn't matter much when it was gravity dump, but is death to a macerator. Just another sloppy quality point for Roadtreks of that era.

Let me be perfectly clear, I was shocked when I learned about the plastic in the tank.... I don't know for a fact that the original owners "grandchildren" might have thrown something down the toilet, but, the owners were retired like me in their 60s....

Why on Earth would someone in their 60s throw plastic down their own toilet in an RV???

Maybe I could believe kids... not adults who have to pay repairs..and the possible failure?

It was fine when we purchased the RV....so, I only thought it might be from prior use that took a really long time to appear.....

ARE you suggesting that it's just a normal matter of poor quality, and /or improper cleaning??

As far as I know..this was the original macerator pump that was replaced on my RV.....

Any further suggestions???? Please let me know.

Is my 2012 Roadtrek RS Adventurous part of the shoddy workmanship you're talking about with respect to the tanks????

[booster]

Yes, as I said, there were numerous reports of plastic debris left in Roadtrek tanks during that era of time that fouled macerators. If the macerator was not, or rarely, used it could easily not have come loose until it was used more and bounded down the road.

[JPMcG]

I have a old boat 1977 Grand Banks 42, at any point in time 10-20 % of the items are broken ---I just don't know it yet ! The only thing that works consistently and constantly on an old boat is the Owner! (PS get 1 mild per gallon)
Sound familiar to owning a Camper Van ? We have a 2012 ERA Winnie that started our ownership with 4K last year. We now have 24,000 miles on it and have seen 30 US National parks 'out west" (were from RI). It was a fantastic three month trip last Spring. I changed the oil at 10K in Page Arizona, Walmart for $80. I used European Blend Mobil 1 (wrong oil) I should have used Mobil 1 ESP - more expensive but still if changed again at Walmart it will only be around $120. I made the mistake of having the 20K oil change at the MB dealer $375 !!! Need to shop around to find better service centers and mechanics. Learning the DIY routine will be the best way to avoid high cost. I have a set of solid plywood ramps to drive up on (20") so I can get under the van. This allows me to do a lot of basic stuff.. I changed out the macerator for only the cost of the pump ($120) a lot of cussing and a good long shower!!
Generator oil will be no problem, engine oil as a DIY is still a question?