Re: Chassis Battery Problem

[Ron]

I am having a problem where as my Chassis Battery goes dead within 3 days.

Have disconnected my Ham Radio which was connected directly to the battery,
disconnected under the hood light.

Kept on hearing a clicking sound coming from underneath the hood, opened
the hood, seemed like it was coming from the Battery Separator.

Is it possible if the Battery Separator is faulty that could be causing my
chassis battery to go dead?

http://i879.photobucket.com/albums/ab35 ... rator1.jpg

Ron

[markopolo]

It might be a recall unit Ron - link: http://www.classbforum.com/phpBB2/vi...hp?f=21&t=2021

I'd call Sure Power at 1-855-450-3594 right away.

[Ron]

Thank you for the information, my Battery Separator is a Sure Power, Model - 1315-200, Serial Number is: 09002577.

I have just sent an E-mail to RoadTrek as well as my RoadTrek dealer here in MA, waiting to here what they have to say, hopefully I will not be told it is not my Battery Separator.

Will let you know what is happening, again Thanks.

Ron

[markopolo]

Looks like your S/N is in the range affected:



Link: http://www.cooperindustries.com/content ... fo_NA.html

I don't want to alarm you at all but......

If you have any of the Affected Products, please immediately stop using, selling and/or distributing it and call Sure Power at 1-855-450-3594

We have been conducting an investigation, including extensive analysis and testing, and though we have not yet been able to determine the actual cause of the thermal events, we currently believe that some units may suffer an internal circuit board capacitor failure, which could lead to overheating, smoke and, on rare occasions, fire.

I saw a report by a member on Sprinter-Source forum where the poster noted that his was drawing 1.3A as it was failing http://sprinter-source.com/forum/showpo ... ostcount=2
That would cause a battery to discharge in two or three days for sure.

[Mike]

Sounds vaguely familiar. My isolator was bad a few years back, and was allowing 2 way current flow on what should have been a 1 way circuit, allowing draw down on the chassis/starter battery by the usual suspect vampire draws. After replacement, I tested the bad isolator with a multi-meter, and it confirmed that the directional current controlling diode was bad.
No further problems since (knock on wood).

Those separators look pretty small and aren't that expensive (around $100 as seen in some online hits). Could you get hold of one and replace it yourself? I would have done my own replacement, but Roadtrek put it on the frame under the van, and running additonal cable to reposition mine into the engine compartment just wasn't an option for me, at that time. If it ever goes again, I'll probably do the mod.

[Ron]

Received the following from Sure Power Industries:

Gary Felipe, Customer Service Technician

"The Battery Separators that are under recall were for a certain serial number range and was for only for the 100 amp series not the 200 amp. You say you have the 1315-200. The (200) as part of the model number designates that you have the 200 amp not the 100 amp unit. The 200 amp battery Separators were not a part of that recall. I have attached the original recall letter that was sent out in July 11, 2011".

Ron

[Mike]

The recall notice on their website did not distinguish between 100 and 200 amp models. It stated model numbers, including your model, and serial number ranges. What did the recall letter say about it Ron? Was it 100 amp only models?
"I have attached the original recall letter that was sent out in July 11, 2011".

[Ron]

Mark,

On the original recall letter it shows a photo of a battery separator with the model number 1314 does not have 1314-100, my battery separator shows model number 1315-200

Following is a copy of the original recall letter:

11 July 2011

PRODUCT SAFETY RECALL AND STOP SALE NOTICE—Sure Power Battery Separator

Dear Distributor/Customer:
Sure Power, Inc. (Sure Power) has been producing quality, ruggedized power conversion and power management products for 52 years, with an outstanding record of performance in the challenging non-automotive transportation application environment.

Unfortunately, we have had reports of overheating, smoke and on rare occasions, fire, in battery separators models 1314 and 1315.

We have been conducting an investigation, including extensive analysis and testing, and though we have not yet been able to determine the actual cause of the thermal events, we currently believe that some units may suffer an internal circuit board capacitor failure, which could lead to overheating, smoke and, on rare occasions, fire.

Although we have not received any reports of injuries, this issue may put our customers at risk of property damage or injury, and so we have decided to initiate an immediate voluntary recall of the products. We are conducting this recall in cooperation with the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission and other international safety regulatory bodies. The following table below lists the model numbers and serial number ranges that are affected by this recall (“Affected Products”).

Affected Products
Model
S/N Start
S/N Stop
1314 (-B, BP-D)
09004545
11002845
1315 (-B, NM)
09002323
11001573
1318
09000274
11000192
1319
09000058
11000013
If you have any of the Affected Products, please immediately stop using, selling and/or distributing it and call Sure Power at 1-855-450-3594 or e-mail Sure Power at recall@surepower.com for direction on how to exchange the products for a replacement product (if available) or a refund. Sure Power replacement products are expected to be available in about 6-7 weeks. Alternatively, you may return the product to Sure Power by mail, Attention: Recall, 10189 SW Avery St Tualatin, OR 97062, along with your name, address and telephone number, and specify whether you would prefer a refund or replacement (if available).

We request that you notify any customers and end-users who may have purchased the Affected Product from you and provide them with this important product recall information. We are very dedicated to quality and excellence in customer service, and we apologize for any inconvenience this recall may cause. Please feel free to contact us with any questions or concerns. We appreciate your cooperation.
Very Best Regards,

James M Henley
Director, Quality

[markopolo]

Really sorry to cause any alarm Ron. Looked like it was on the list to me and the post on Sprinter-Source Forum was about the same model as yours 1315-200. I know you park in your garage and the recall mentioned fire so I wanted you to be safe.

I think I understand the 1314 and 1314-100 anomaly - I don't think the 100 is included in the model number on the 100 amp models. The 200 amp model gets the -200 added to the model number.



As for trouble shooting the Sure Power - I don't know how to help.

[Ron]

Mark, nothing to be sorry about, appreciate your concern, Rose and I have been concerned since having the issue with the Battery because of a fire. We also were concerned with the Throttle Position Sensor.

The engine would run rough, and the engine would reduce power, and we could only go about 5 MPH if that, concerned we could not move out of the way if a vehicle could strike us.

Thank God Chevrolet mailed letters to the owners of the 2010 Chevrolet with the V-8 engine regarding the issue, thank God my local Chevrolet replaced the Throttle Position Sensor.

By the way I did E-mail Sure Power Industries why the Battery Separator 1314-100, that 100 is not added in the photo of their recall notice with 1314-100, yet the Battery Separator 1314-200 is correctly marked on the units.

Ron

[markopolo]

Thanks Ron.

There's some info here that might help:
http://www.sportsmobileforum.com/vie...hp?f=14&t=9042

and this topic has a post of interest: http://www.sportsmobileforum.com/vie...hp?f=13&t=4353
partially copied here:

My SurePower 1315 quit working early on. Actually, it still worked, but no power went to the house batteries. At least in my case it was the terminals that connect to the batteries that had high resistance, not the contacts inside the SurePower.

I cleaned the terminals carefully with a stainless steel brush, coated everythng with grease (block air and prevent corrosion) and no problems for the last 4 years, 60K miles.

So it seems the solenoid is sticking open or opening and closing often. Probably the latter. Cleaning all related contacts might solve it. Yours is the chassis battery and his was the house battery but the 1315-200 is bi-directional so the problem may affect either side.

[markopolo]

Sure Power responded promptly to my request for info / help

If it is clicking that is a good sign of several things to check for :

(1) Bad ground connection to the ground terminal.
(2) If there is a circuit breaker installed it could be tripping.
(3) Bad or too small cable and wiring sizing. Or bad connections to any part of the terminal and wiring.
(4) If a second aux. charging source is being used such as a battery charger may not be high enough voltage to keep it engaged or if the charging source being used on the main side such as the alternator may not be reaching the 13.2 volts in order for the Separator to kick in to parallel the second battery. The battery separator must see 13.2 volts in order for it to kick in. The Separator is totally dependent on the charge source and is only good as it outs out.
(5) Or shorted cell or bad battery.

#1 - A bad ground connection can be the cause of many RV problems. That is what I would check first Ron.

[Ron]

Will take it this week to have the battery checked out.

Ron

[Mike]

Are there any other courtesy lights anywhere in the vehicle, besides the under hood light? I have one underneath the bed at the rear of the van inside the left swing door. It operates by the opening and closing of the van doors, but can also be left on with a selector switch, such that it doesn't shut off when all the van's doors are closed.
The separator could still be bad, even though it isn't on the recall list, and be allowing the coach electrical system to draw power from the chassis battery, which shouldn't happen. That was my issue.

[Ron]

Mike,

How can I tell if the separator could be bad?

I have checked for any lights that could be on, found none, what I did find when I went to start the vehicle the AM/FM radio was on, volume was down, the front of the radio read ON. My question when I would shut off the ignition of the vehicle, wouldn't the radio automatically go off?

Ron

[Mike]

Originally Posted by Ron

Mike,

How can I tell if the separator could be bad?

I expect the manufacturer probably has a trouble shooting/testing procedure that can be done with a multimeter. My isolator manufacturer (HDPSI) had a downloadable trouble shooting procedure available on their website. I downloaded a copy and followed the procedure with a multimeter and it showed that a directional diode was bad. It was allowing 2 way current flow, which was allowing the coach systems to slowly draw down my chassis battery over a few days. Perhaps contact Sure Power, and ask them if the separator can be tested with a multi-meter to verify it is functioning as designed? Or perhaps your Roadtrek or local RV shop can test it for you?

Originally Posted by Ron

I have checked for any lights that could be on, found none, what I did find when I went to start the vehicle the AM/FM radio was on, volume was down, the front of the radio read ON. My question when I would shut off the ignition of the vehicle, wouldn't the radio automatically go off?

Ron

My first thought is "yes". GM could tell you for certain, but I can't think of many modern vehicles that don't shut off the radio when the ignition is off, and the key removed. However, some vehicles have a delayed radio shut off, that doesn't shut off until a door is opened. I guess GM/Ford/Chrysler/etc. figure you want to continue listening, until you actually exit the vehicle. If your van has this delayed radio shut off feature, perhaps it's not shutting off your radio, after you exit the vehicle?

[Ron]

Having problems with my battery going dead every 3 days, almost 2 weeks, feeling something is draining the battery or there is a short, went on-line, found and did as instructed below.

Disconnected the NEGATIVE Cable Terminal Bolt, clipped on the test light clip to the Terminal Bolt, put the Test Point on the ground, being the ground cable on the chassis the circuit light did not come on.

I have no idea if this is the correct procedure to locate a SHORT.

Photo 5: the round disk on the Negative Cable appears to be discolored, no idea if it should be.

Photo's Down Below (Photobucket)

Article on-line:

Fords and Chrysler do this more often;

Hook up battery, remove the NEGATIVE terminal and clip on a test light to the terminal and the other part to ground, with the drivers door closed , ignition off, see if the tester light goes on, if it does, there is definitely a short, leave the light set up connected so the light stays on, get help for someone else to watch this light as you;...remove each individual fuse from the fuse box one by one watching the light to go out, doing this your are disconnecting each electric component one at the time to isolate the bad one.

This is what an electric auto place does, if none of the fuses pulled out turns off the light, it is something else.

Disconnect the power going to the alternator unplug the plugs and look for a looped wire with a 3/8ths nut also to remove, check the light, still on? we just checked the alternator, sometimes an alternator can be working but broken in a way to draw 12 volts from the battery this is all you can do.

Photo's of Negative wire/ground

01: Circuit Tester: Clip Clipped on Negative Cable Terminal Bolt, Tester Point on Ground Bolt Cable on Chassis. As seen no LIGHT is on from the Circuit Tester.
http://i879.photobucket.com/albums/ab35 ... issue7.jpg

02: Ground Cable to Vehicle Chassis:
http://i879.photobucket.com/albums/ab35 ... issue5.jpg

03: Ground Cable to Vehicle Chassis:
http://i879.photobucket.com/albums/ab35 ... issue2.jpg

04: Battery Negative Point/Cable/Bolt:
http://i879.photobucket.com/albums/ab35 ... issue4.jpg

05: Negative Cable to Battery:
http://i879.photobucket.com/albums/ab35 ... issue1.jpg

Ron

[markopolo]

Does your Chevy have an under-the-hood light that comes on when the hood is raised?
Have you tested the test light?

[Ron]

Yes it does, but it is and has been disconnected when my problem started.

Ron

[markopolo]

It is not that easy to do the test. I know in theory it is easy but I've read that the computer in modern vehicles draw a fair bit of current when they start up again after the battery has been disconnected. A better way is to make the test connection before disconnecting the negative cable. 3 or 4 hands might be needed unless you have alligator type clips or similar.

I am not familiar with test lights for checking parasitic draws so I'm hoping someone else will jump in here. I'd use ammeter for this type of testing. A clamp on ammeter lets you measure without breaking the connection: http://www.classbforum.com/phpBB2/vi...hp?f=29&t=1038