Quick SMB visit and the ProMaster...

[GeorgeB]

Originally Posted by Davydd

GeorgeB,

As it turns out 24 total gallons of grey is pretty generous for a Class B. Do they split up which sink, drain, etc. goes to which or do they work in concert some way?

Advanced RV sprung from a 40 year old design firm dealing with the design and testing of very complex particulate filter systems mainly for coal plants among other things for environmental control. They had a high degree of expertise in house with design and 3D CAD systems. They do hire design interns and cooperate with the local schools but I don't remember it turned over out of house. When they started up back in May, 2012 they showed me their in-house design work for the fiberglas skirts before any were built. When I compared their cabinets to the work of Finnish architect, Alvar Aalto, I got the impression they were unaware of Aalto. Their cabinets somewhat sprung for a desire to design soft rounded corners rather than sharp corners and have cleaner depth transitions as much as possible. I think I know where that desire came from. Neundorfer owned a Great West Van Legend. I know, had I had a chance, that I wanted to desperately clean up the Great West cabinetry.

Sorry for the late reply Davydd,
Safari Condo simply combines the two grey water tanks in one 24 Gal. Great capacity, we use our large shower every day. Never used any camping facilities. But after using the van last summer for 30 days, we would definitely add more capacity to all tanks, if we could. But a B is a B and the ProMaster is lower to the ground.
About your ARV cabinets, I believe it is really one of the best design in the industry. About the layout, for our lifestyle I would prefer a two zone cabin, with a front dinette/passenger area. We don't like to store our bedding every day so a permanent platform bed is more suited for our needs.

The only thing I would change in our ProMaster Safari Condo Van would be to have 4WD traction. Our FWD is very agile and is a pleasure to use for 90% of our driving conditions but it can get tricky when your are all loaded up in sandy or wet grass areas. RWD vans have definitely better traction when loaded. Next dream is trying to design a campervan with most of the interior features of our van in a tight 4WD short Sprinter. Quite a challenge. We almost bought a Roadtrek Agile which had an interesting layout for such a short van, but no storage for camping gear and very poor interior design. I asked if it was possible to order it without the cabinet doors and all the interior finishes The others conversions, like the PW Ascent, all had beds that are too short for my 6' 1" height. Hopefully we switched to our great ProMaster Safari Condo XL Flex.

Albums for my 144 Sprinter project mood boards
http://centrelab.smugmug.com/PERSO-G...oject/n-HmLNB/
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...2388992&type=3

The first sketch



Based on the Possl P2 Relax principle of a wedged bathroom area



And the overlapping sliding bed in the Westfalia Columbus

[Davydd]

GeorgeRa,

We have two zone living in our ARV. If you had watched the ARV video you would have seen me being interviewed up front with our cab seats turned around. I modified the front so I would have a computer table to work at from the drivers seat. We also have a portable dinette we could set up for both seats to eat dinner and our 22" TV in the back turns 180 degrees for watching from the front seats. I doubt we will ever do that since our articulated beds are so comfortable they can be beds, zero gravity loungers, lazy boy chairs or just propped up backs for reading and TV watching. Since they are twin beds my wife and I can adjust them individually to our desires. They are a semi king bed from the waste up with the notch so we can get in and out without disturbing each other.

So far we have set up our dinette table only outside on its tri-leg base in this near perfect AZ weather we are in. An inside dinette would seldom get used with our computer desk functioning for just about anything but two person dining. We even have an electric portable induction cooktop and I'm glad it is not built in because so far we have used it outside for every meal. Our kitchen galley is 5'-4" long and is used more for just placing things while in a campground.

[GeorgeB]

Originally Posted by Davydd

GeorgeRa,

We have two zone living in our ARV. If you had watched the ARV video you would have seen me being interviewed up front with our cab seats turned around. I modified the front so I would have a computer table to work at from the drivers seat. We also have a portable dinette we could set up for both seats to eat dinner and our 22" TV in the back turns 180 degrees for watching from the front seats. I doubt we will ever do that since our articulated beds are so comfortable they can be beds, zero gravity loungers, lazy boy chairs or just propped up backs for reading and TV watching. Since they are twin beds my wife and I can adjust them individually to our desires. They are a semi king bed from the waste up with the notch so we can get in and out without disturbing each other.

So far we have set up our dinette table only outside on its tri-leg base in this near perfect AZ weather we are in. An inside dinette would seldom get used with our computer desk functioning for just about anything but two person dining. We even have an electric portable induction cooktop and I'm glad it is not built in because so far we have used it outside for every meal. Our kitchen galley is 5'-4" long and is used more for just placing things while in a campground.

Davydd,
I agree that you do have a very nice two zone living space in your Alvar. I guess that in your layout, the extra space required for the computer desk makes all the difference in the front area. I remember our first encounter with a Class B camper, renting a Pleasureway Excel in Denver for a wonderful two week excursion in the Rockies. We managed to use the front cab when we were having breakfast inside, because of cold temperatures, but the area was cramped. The main meals were taken outside with friends, or inside their Safari Condo trailer when the bugs were too agressive. One thing was very clear. We never ever used the power sofa at the back, it stayed a "power" bed all the time!

[Davydd]

The Pleasure-ways always pushed the cabinets tight to the driver's seat. That and their reluctance to upgrade their house battery capability is what drove me away from them.

[mojoman]

I'm designing my Promaster build, after looking at the construction of the rear portion, I didn't see an access to change the tail light bulbs. I'm in the process of figuring out how to box the rear area in and still be able to service or repair the tail lights since its done from the inside.

[cargovanconversion]

I just started comparing the available cargo vans and the differences between the Ram ProMaster and the Ford Transit aren't limited to wheel wells. In my opinion, much more thought went into the design of the Transit. The ProMaster design seems hastily finished.


Ford Transit Wheel Housing Size


Ram ProMaster Wheel Housing Size

http://cargovanconversion.com/7048/f...aster-review-2

[mojoman]

When I was shopping, I noticed the Transit looked better inside. Also, look underneath, Ford didn't put as much effort where the Promaster looks a bit better. Its a trade off, the wheel wells are bigger/taller in the Promaster because the body sits lower on the frame, overall lower entry and profile. The Transit has a taller profile. I have a bad knee so I'm enjoying the lower height of the van getting it and out and driving in cross winds.

[cargovanconversion]

Originally Posted by mojoman

When I was shopping, I noticed the Transit looked better inside. Also, look underneath, Ford didn't put as much effort where the Promaster looks a bit better. Its a trade off, the wheel wells are bigger/taller in the Promaster because the body sits lower on the frame, overall lower entry and profile. The Transit has a taller profile. I have a bad knee so I'm enjoying the lower height of the van getting it and out and driving in cross winds.

In the ProMaster it is also easier to move between both front seats as well as go into the payload area. The Transit is aesthetically much better. The drivers and passengers windows are better designed, while in the ProMaster the welding points in the sliding door rail are visible, and the design of the rear doors is so rectangular, that is seems an afterthought. The Ram's front bumper is also one huge piece of plastic. The biggest problem I see with the ProMaster is it's advantage of a lower payload floor is also it's demise, with a serious lack of underfloor storage.

Van Williams.

[mojoman]

Funny you mentioned lack of underfloor storage, the open area under under the van was one of the reasons I picked the Promaster. I easily rerouted the exhaust and have quite a bit of un-obstructed area to work with without the drive line interfering.

[mlts22]

For me, it was pretty close between a Transit and a ProMaster, but the main reason I plan to go with a Transit is the ability to buy one in 22 feet and the high roof. This doesn't sound like much... but it means I have far fewer compromises to make. The beds can be full length, the bathroom can be normal sized (for a "B", that is), and the kitchen doesn't have to be too tiny.