Propane vs No Propane

[avanti]

If you have heat and DHW systems using the vehicle's fuel (which is very easy, regardless of fuel), decent batteries and an UHG I see no advantage whatsoever of propane, with the exception of a stovetop. With our current van, I have a tank of propane that hasn't been refilled in living memory, since we only end up using it for cooking. Hardly worth it, and I wouldn't do it again. Gas cooking is nice, but I think we can live with induction. I suppose the other exception might be an absorption fridge for the dwindling number of folks who can stand owning one. If you don't drive enough for the UHG, then get a gasoline rig and use the engine as a genset.

I agree that for existing rigs that have propane, it is not cost-effective to remove it and do the necessary upgrades. But, if starting from a clean slate, nah...

[booster]

Originally Posted by avanti

If you have heat and DHW systems using the vehicle's fuel (which is very easy, regardless of fuel), decent batteries and an UHG I see no advantage whatsoever of propane, with the exception of a stovetop. With our current van, I have a tank of propane that hasn't been refilled in living memory, since we only end up using it for cooking. Hardly worth it, and I wouldn't do it again. Gas cooking is nice, but I think we can live with induction. I suppose the other exception might be an absorption fridge for the dwindling number of folks who can stand owning one. If you don't drive enough for the UHG, then get a gasoline rig and use the engine as a genset.

I agree that for existing rigs that have propane, it is not cost-effective to remove it and do the necessary upgrades. But, if starting from a clean slate, nah...

I would agree with a lot of this, but for us the cooking is a big deal. We don't use the stovetop at all, but do lots on the small gas grille. I have never seen any electric type cooker that could rival a good burner grille on lots of the things we like to cook. That said, if you are a cook in pots and frying pan style cook, electric is not bad, but that isn't us. We use propane for the grille, heat when needed and no shore power, and hot water, and we also fill the tank about once every 2-3 years. We haven't missed the generator at all since I removed it.

[GeorgeRa]

Good information and review of Truma Combi Eco. In the summary there is a prediction that in 10 years Truma could own this market in NA.

https://www.truckcamperadventure.com...e-truma-combi/

“Final Verdict

You’d think with the aforementioned issues that we’d be down on this product, but that isn’t the case. We love the Truma Combi’s small footprint and versatility and believe that it, along with similar products like the Alde hydronic water heater-furnace—also owned by Truma—will pretty much be standard in most recreational vehicles within 10 years. Change due to technological advancements sometimes takes years to happen, but once it’s made, it’s made for good. Sure, we’ve been a bit disappointed with the Truma Combi’s somewhat anemic furnace, but we have learned to compensate for it by simply using the fan speed “Boost” mode and by allowing more time for the camper to heat-up. Like any good product, you have to learn how it works and responds in all temperatures, elevations, and settings. The Truma Combi is no different. We do, however, recommend installing Truma’s larger Comfort Plus model in truck campers and travel trailers to put it on a more equal footing with American furnaces. What would we rate the Truma Combi Eco Plus unit? On a scale of 1 to 5 with 1 being the lowest and 5 being the highest, we give this amazing product an enthusiastic rating of 5 stars.”

Let’s not forget that B is not going to drive RV technologies in NA, it is not dominant in RV market here. LPG is used as energy source in practically all other RV. Truma cost is about $1800, it is much less than Rixen, or my diesel-based system.

From reliability and serviceability perspective propane gas burner is simpler and cleaner technology than liquid diesel or gasoline, there is no need to change liquid fuel to gas phase, and simple spark ignition is sufficient.

If I would be converting another van to a camper van LPG with Truma is beginning to top my options list.

[booster]

Originally Posted by GeorgeRa

Good information and review of Truma Combi Eco. In the summary there is a prediction that in 10 years Truma could own this market in NA.

https://www.truckcamperadventure.com...e-truma-combi/

“Final Verdict

You’d think with the aforementioned issues that we’d be down on this product, but that isn’t the case. We love the Truma Combi’s small footprint and versatility and believe that it, along with similar products like the Alde hydronic water heater-furnace—also owned by Truma—will pretty much be standard in most recreational vehicles within 10 years. Change due to technological advancements sometimes takes years to happen, but once it’s made, it’s made for good. Sure, we’ve been a bit disappointed with the Truma Combi’s somewhat anemic furnace, but we have learned to compensate for it by simply using the fan speed “Boost” mode and by allowing more time for the camper to heat-up. Like any good product, you have to learn how it works and responds in all temperatures, elevations, and settings. The Truma Combi is no different. We do, however, recommend installing Truma’s larger Comfort Plus model in truck campers and travel trailers to put it on a more equal footing with American furnaces. What would we rate the Truma Combi Eco Plus unit? On a scale of 1 to 5 with 1 being the lowest and 5 being the highest, we give this amazing product an enthusiastic rating of 5 stars.”

Let’s not forget that B is not going to drive RV technologies in NA, it is not dominant in RV market here. LPG is used as energy source in practically all other RV. Truma cost is about $1800, it is much less than Rixen, or my diesel-based system.

From reliability and serviceability perspective propane gas burner is simpler and cleaner technology than liquid diesel or gasoline, there is no need to change liquid fuel to gas phase, and simple spark ignition is sufficient.

If I would be converting another van to a camper van LPG with Truma is beginning to top my options list.

Interesting stuff.


I wonder if the intangible is if and when somebody comes up with a condensing hot air furnace like has be come the standard in many homes these days. The technology would be a natural for propane in and RV as most are by design sealed combustion with full safety interlocks. Efficiencies in the 90s% area. Currently you can get home versions for under $1K, I think.

[MsNomer]

Don’t ignore portable butane stoves.

https://www.amazon.com/GS-3800DF-Bur...%2C251&sr=8-13

The lowest setting is plenty powerful enough for everything we cook on it. It could be used in the van, but we only use it outside. Butane doesn’t work as well as propane in the cold, but if it’s cold, we won’t be cooking outside anyway. We get the bottles at Sam's.

[Kswanson]

Originally Posted by Potvinsux

Hi Everyone. Please let me know your first hand experience and opinions.

We are between two manufacturers: American Coach (MAD) and Coachmen both would have the lithium upgrade. I won't ask about Diesel vs Gas since that is a whole other topic and my wife and I are still trying to figure that part out. My question right now is whether or not you would opt for no propane for heat and hot water. This would lead us in the direction of one manufacturer or the other. There is already talk that Coachmen will offer a no propane unit in the future but I doubt we will see it in the next 2 years.

1. Does anyone know how long the propane will last (approximate) in a Coachmen if boondocking in cooler weather? Are we talking days or weeks?

2. How difficult is it to refill propane in the North East? Around me in the DC metro area, I never see propane fill stations. Only stores that sell portable tanks. This is most concerning in my opinion plus the fact in colder temperatures propane will lose pressure.

3. On the other hand, we have heard diesel and gas furnaces are sometime finicky.

Any help is appreciated
Nic

We have owned a Coachman Crossfit (now called the Beyond) for 4 years and do a lot of 4 day/3 night boondocking. Our unit has the propane Truma heater/hot water heater combo. After an entire season of use (16 to 20 days under these conditions) we still have 1/4 to 1/2 of a tank while keeping the cab temp at 60 -62. I do not think you will run out of Propane. We take ours to the RV dealer for filling once a year.

We run out of battery power after about 4 days and have to run the generator. The fan on the heater drains the battery along with the frig.

I understand that lithium batteries do not do well when stored in cold weather and are not in use. No experience here but you can learn about lithium battery issues from other posts.

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by booster

Interesting stuff.


I wonder if the intangible is if and when somebody comes up with a condensing hot air furnace like has be come the standard in many homes these days. The technology would be a natural for propane in and RV as most are by design sealed combustion with full safety interlocks. Efficiencies in the 90s% area. Currently you can get home versions for under $1K, I think.

It would simplify installation if PVC could be use for exhaust. Truma left Suburban and Atwood in the 20 Century dust, competition is good.

[booster]

Originally Posted by GeorgeRa

It would simplify installation if PVC could be use for exhaust. Truma left Suburban and Atwood in the 20 Century dust, competition is good.

Yes it would simplify things with PVC, and I think would be possible as all the home stuff is that way now in the direct vent stuff. There has been a recent change in codes though to requiring PVC to be direct vent flue rated. I don't know exactly what changed, but they said that discoloring on the older stuff was an indicator of failing PVC. Perhaps poor installation and setup that causes too high exhaust temps?