Propane Question

[SteveJ]

Originally Posted by Wingeezer

Steve,

I'm not really certain about the tank size, I read the 8 gallon figure from a spec chart in teh PW manual along with fresh water and black/gry water capacities - it listed propane capacity as 8 gallon and so I took it that 8 gallons was filled to the 80% level - hope so anyway!

I'll try to look at the tank itself and see what is stamped on it.

The good thing is that we have never been much into boon docking with our trailers we have owned for years - I suppose that could change now that we we the "B" but probably not too likely as my wife likes conveniences such as decent washrooms, running water, electricity!

In the past, roughing it for us means a state or provincial park with no sewer hooks up, only water and elec - and some times only elec!

So it will likely be only overnight stops en route or the odd stop at a Cracker Barrel, Flying J, or "Harvest Host" winery so maybe we won't have that mush of a problem.

I'm sure I will be getting a bit paranoid and looking for fill up spots when we get down to about 1/3 tank of propane left though and start keeping an eye open for potential fill up spots!

We do also have solar and 200AH Lithium so that should help! Also a convection hotplate.

I have heard the potential downside of idling the MB diesel - but for what I have taken away from threads I have read, an hour or two isn't going to be a big deal just to charge the lithiums a bit if/when needed.

Moderation in all things applies I guess.

Thx ........ Brian.

Sounds like you have a good handle on things.

Have fun!

[engnrsrule]

I second avanti's comment about propane being hard to find. I have a process that uses my Garmin RV specialized GPS. Click RV Service, select Propane and it gives you a list of upcoming facilities. HOWEVER they may not all fill fixed tanks (some just exchange bottles). So to alleviate taking an exit and being disappointed, I select one and click the information icon, get the phone number and confirm they can fill my tank before making the stop. The Garmin also displays an arrow next to each option that represents how far they are off they highway.

That said I have been surprised at how long propane lasts. Unsure of the accuracy of the in cabin capacity indicator, and after a week of using propane for furnace, hot water and fridge I was down to 2 lights. It had been at 3 lights (of 4) for months. It took 6.5 gallons, so 2 lights is close to half.

[Fuschiagirl]

If travelling in Baja then it is even more difficult to find pumped propane. Locations can be a hundred miles apart. Planning ahead is vital.

[engnrsrule]

I am relatively new to Class B and have come to some conclusions about propane use. First off the 12 gal tank of the Roadtrek is lasting very well. I have over 22 road days using propane in varying amounts and a fill took only 6.5 gal.

That is with hot water heater on the whole time; fridge on propane for about half that time, 6 nights using furnace, and generator an hour a day if boondocking, or if I need to make a Keurig at a rest stop. Due to fridge running less cool on propane than it does on 12v or 120v, I have adjusted to running it on 120v when available, 12v when driving and propane when boondocked. I am thinking a tank would last a month of this type of use, maybe less if I needed AC at night and had to run generator for that. Any suggestions?

[Nic7320]

The biggest problem with U-Haul is that they hire idiots. I've rented trailers from them in the past and always had problems with their equipment and lack of training. One tech couldn't hook up the trailer lights if his life depended on it (it's only four wires), one car trailer had loose lug nuts and a wheel almost fell off. Another cargo trailer we rented to help a friend when I was in college was never inspected, and when we got to the dorm, it was full of trash! They are the lowest price for trailer rentals, but it's come to the point where I always expect problems and have to double check everything they do.

But back to the topic -- I do have a 1994 PW with the original propane tank, and never had anyone question its age. I suspect as long as the rig *looks* new, nobody will do so. Most vendors ask if the pilots are off. Some do not. Maybe a big sticker on the inside of the propane door can prompt both driver and technician double check that the pilots are off.

[Scottie409]

Originally Posted by InterBlog

I went looking for this U Haul story... found this below, a propane tank explosion in the northeast, two fatalities, litigation settled earlier this year for $160 million.

That explosion happened some time after the filling - was not a fill-related event but apparently U Haul was the filler. The tank was reportedly manufactured in 1948!! Who in their right mind would use that kind of apparatus?

There were also incidents involving U Haul in Orlando (which was an RV event), Colorado, and a few others where people were either filling or transporting loose tanks which failed and exploded the vehicles.

I had an issue getting propane at U Haul here in Ontario Canada.
My RT has new tank, Fridge,Stove but was refused fill because I don't have an appliance inspection certificate. This apparently is only required in Ontario so I will fill elsewhere. U Haul said they will be removing Propane refill facility when the supply is gone.

[wpshivers]

I had a 1984 StarCraft 19' Starflyer Tent Trailer with a standard 5 gallon(?) propane Tank. We loved it, don't know how we managed with six kids, but we did! After many years of service the local Propane supply refused to fill it anymore as it was too old. Simple solution was to just start getting the exchange propane tanks at the local grocery market. Not such an easy solution on most Class B's with their built in propane tanks.

Three years ago (A few years after the Tent Trailer finally fell apart, the kids moved out and the Dog died) we purchased a new 2016 Roadtrek CS Adventurous and elected their newly available "No Propane" option. We were RT's first customer to go for this option, which as it turns out had not been fully developed yet, but that is a another very long story.

Everything in our CS is electrical powered save the Alde Hot water and cabin heating which has a Diesel fueled heating option in addition to 2000w of electrical heating elements. (It will also pick up heat from the engine cooling system)

With 800A of Lithium Ion batteries, 470w Solar panels, Underhood Generator, Cooking on Induction Cooktops or using the Microwave/Convection Oven, not to mention the 12vdc/120vac 7.0 cu ft Refrigerator, we do not miss Propane at all!

No propane tank to refill ever, (We top off with diesel only whenever the fuel tank needs filling and we are good too go!). The 27 gallon diesel fuel tank will provide heat and electricity for many many days, far longer than how long our holding tanks can hold out...

House Batteries are self sustaining between the Solar Panels or driving/running the Mercedes Diesel engine. We do of course have the option to plug into shorepower which means we don't even need to use our diesel fuel. We also enjoy a nice warm floor along with very quiet heat with the Alde Hydronic heating system. One of the Alde heat outlets is under the bed, which keeps the sleeping area very comfortable on a cold night.

Then there are no longer the other minor worries with traveling in an RV with propane, like shutting the propane off while traveling or at the very least while traveling through tunnels or on ferries. No need to replace or certify the propane tank every few years either.

We were a bit apprehensive with going with "No Propane", but after three years of use we are quite pleased with making the decision.

We do have a Cuisinart GR-4NR 5-in-1 electric Griddler that more than makes up for not having a propane grill while camping.

20160608_191653 by William Shivers, on Flickr

Something to consider if you have the option...

edited_20160518_111348 by William Shivers, on Flickr

[nnewman]

Until very recently I had a 1996 Falcon. I too went to a Uhaul for fillips that was conveniently located. I had a terrible experience at a Uhaul where they overfilled my tank. I had no idea anything was wrong. After driving several hours I had to pull over because I smelled gas. When I stopped propane was hissing and coming out of my tank. To make a long story short, I spent two full days and visited RV repair places, mobile RV techs, and was sent on multiple goose chases while different people diagnosed different problems and there were no available parts. In an absolute desperate last measure, I stopped at a Propane supplier close to closing time. He quickly figured out nothing was wrong except my tank had been overfilled and the leaking gas had come out of the overflow valve which it was supposed to. No I didn’t need a new valve or regulator. He released some propane in a back field and then checked all the pressures. I paid nothing except for the propane used.

When you fill your propane tank at a Uhaul or truck stop, they call whoever is available in the yard or working on the floor to fill it. There is great turnover in these positions and many times the person just isn’t trained adequately. It is a very risky situation when you are dealing with propane. The person working at a propane supplier place is trained and an expert with propane-it’s all they do. And the added bonus is that most times it’s cheaper.

I now own a Winnebago View and I intend to always fill at a propane supplier.

[mck150stone]

Originally Posted by Wingeezer

Steve,

I'm not really certain about the tank size, I read the 8 gallon figure from a spec chart in teh PW manual along with fresh water and black/gry water capacities - it listed propane capacity as 8 gallon and so I took it that 8 gallons was filled to the 80% level - hope so anyway!

I'll try to look at the tank itself and see what is stamped on it.

The good thing is that we have never been much into boon docking with our trailers we have owned for years - I suppose that could change now that we we the "B" but probably not too likely as my wife likes conveniences such as decent washrooms, running water, electricity!

In the past, roughing it for us means a state or provincial park with no sewer hooks up, only water and elec - and some times only elec!

So it will likely be only overnight stops en route or the odd stop at a Cracker Barrel, Flying J, or "Harvest Host" winery so maybe we won't have that mush of a problem.

I'm sure I will be getting a bit paranoid and looking for fill up spots when we get down to about 1/3 tank of propane left though and start keeping an eye open for potential fill up spots!

We do also have solar and 200AH Lithium so that should help! Also a convection hotplate.

I have heard the potential downside of idling the MB diesel - but for what I have taken away from threads I have read, an hour or two isn't going to be a big deal just to charge the lithiums a bit if/when needed.

Moderation in all things applies I guess.

Thx ........ Brian.

My 2012 Plateau tank is stamped 10.2 gallons; per notes I made shortly after I purchased it.

[TatraDog]

Wingeezer,

If you are travelling along major highways where there are Truck Stops you can easily find propane filling stations at PILOT's, FLYING J's, LOVE'S and TRAVELCENTERS of AMERICA, as well as other larger gas stations along major highways.

Locally, just stop by the various Service Stations in your area that sell propane. If they fill up portable tanks they can probably fill up RV tanks too, as long as they have the "adapter extension" that screws onto the end of the hose.

I found this reply to RV/Motorhome propane tank re-certification on RVtravel.com Q&A section:

"Motorhomes, have installed ASME (American Society of Mechanical Engineers) tanks, not DOT tanks. ASME tanks are not required to be re-certified since they are permanently installed.
DOT/TC cylinders, both vertical and horizontal, because they can be removed, transported and filled independently, do qualify for periodic re-certification (every 10 years). All propane containers, tanks and cylinders, however, should be periodically inspected, cleaned and tested for leaks. All of which should be considered preventive maintenance common sense. For more information and updates contact the National Propane Gas Association (NPGA)."

David

[<<B-Guy>>]

Thanks David,

We generally do travel the interstates when heading to the US, so it sounds as though that should work fine for us.

Generally have had a preferences (we towed travel trailers for the last 20 years since I retired) for Flying J's mainly because they usually have the RV islands and we didn't have to go in with the 18 wheelers to get diesel - a bit of a pain due to the large delivery nozzles and that the pumps often won't take our Canadian Credit cards. FJ's just seem a bit nicer all around! Good to know the others can likely fill a fixed propane tank anyway.

Seems a strange situation regarding no legal requirement for testing of ASME tanks and that it is more or less a common sense voluntary thing.

I guess that equally, and despite the fact that it may not be a legal requirement, then with an older RV, you could be vulnerable to any propane dealer refusing to fill your tank just on the grounds that in his opinion it doesn't look to be in good enough condition.

Ours is a 2109 B, and I doubt we'll have it for more than five years, so hopefully not an issue we will have.

As to you comment about propane vendors being able to fill a fixed tank as long as they have thhe proper hose adapter, isn't the whole filling process different?

In other words, rather than just putting a propane bottle on a scale and filling it by weight, they need to have a filling setup with metering equipment so they can actually measure the gallons delivered?

I've never had a fixed tank before and yet to get ours filled, so no real experience with this whole subject - other than that I have checked around our home and so far in our town of about 180,000 pop. so far, only found one place that can fill our fixed tank - and that is why I was getting a bit concerned about how difficult it might be on the road.

Thx again ........ Brian.

Originally Posted by TatraDog

Wingeezer,

If you are travelling along major highways where there are Truck Stops you can easily find propane filling stations at PILOT's, FLYING J's, LOVE'S and TRAVELCENTERS of AMERICA, as well as other larger gas stations along major highways.

Locally, just stop by the various Service Stations in your area that sell propane. If they fill up portable tanks they can probably fill up RV tanks too, as long as they have the "adapter extension" that screws onto the end of the hose.

I found this reply to RV/Motorhome propane tank re-certification on RVtravel.com Q&A section:

"Motorhomes, have installed ASME (American Society of Mechanical Engineers) tanks, not DOT tanks. ASME tanks are not required to be re-certified since they are permanently installed.
DOT/TC cylinders, both vertical and horizontal, because they can be removed, transported and filled independently, do qualify for periodic re-certification (every 10 years). All propane containers, tanks and cylinders, however, should be periodically inspected, cleaned and tested for leaks. All of which should be considered preventive maintenance common sense. For more information and updates contact the National Propane Gas Association (NPGA)."

David

[InterBlog]

I might as well re-post what I've said on other previous threads, given that the topic is being discussed extensively here (which makes it a good thread).

IMO the real risk with propane is not the tanks - it's the lines used on Class B rigs.

To make a long story short, according to the manufacturer with whose technical representative I spoke by telephone, those lines are only supposed to be in service for 5 years, then replaced. They have a finite lifespan by design.

I know of no Class B manufacturer who has ever disclosed this limitation to its buyers. And there are Class Bs driving around with 10, 15, 20 year old lines. SMH.

If you'd like to read more on THAT aspect of propane usage, I wrote a detailed blog post explaining how I had new lines created by an authorized fabricator, and re-installed as a DIY job. All that after a couple of other owners reported really bad line leaks that could have easily resulted in a fireball:

REPLACING LP FLEX LINES

[Pam G]

The U-Haul, which I had used for years, also told me 2 years ago that they could no longer fill my propane unless I had it certified. I have a 1999 RT. So, I started going out to an RV dealer (he sells fifth wheels), and he's had no issue with filling my tank. When I went to get propane 2 months ago, they were having a problem with their equipment though, so they referred me to a hardware store down the road. The hardware store was also able to fill my tank with no problem. They were a lot cheaper than the RV place too, so I'm going to be going there this week to fill my tank. So, it appears that it's just U-Haul that is requiring certification?

[<<B-Guy>>]

Originally Posted by Pam G

The U-Haul, which I had used for years, also told me 2 years ago that they could no longer fill my propane unless I had it certified. I have a 1999 RT. So, I started going out to an RV dealer (he sells fifth wheels), and he's had no issue with filling my tank. When I went to get propane 2 months ago, they were having a problem with their equipment though, so they referred me to a hardware store down the road. The hardware store was also able to fill my tank with no problem. They were a lot cheaper than the RV place too, so I'm going to be going there this week to fill my tank. So, it appears that it's just U-Haul that is requiring certification?

Do you happen to know if it is common that generally most Uhaul places are set up to fill fixed RV tanks, or is it just some that do?

Brian

[avanti]

Originally Posted by Pam G

The U-Haul, which I had used for years, also told me 2 years ago that they could no longer fill my propane unless I had it certified.\

I don't even know what "certification" means in this context. If the tanks don't need inspection, who is going to "certify" them, and for what?

I suspect that this is just internal miscommunication within the U-Haul system, with the actual intent applying only to DOT tanks.

[GallenH]

As far as I can tell, all the propane appliances on my 1997 PW (stove, fridge, water heater and furnace) have hard-line connections. Appears to be solid copper tubing but I never really looked carefully as to metal/type. The only soft, flex hose that I have is between the regulator and the hard line. I replaced that when I had the regulator replaced 1-2 years ago.

So, InterBlog, are you referring only to the hose type line? Any degradation known with regard to hard lines?

Anyone: Would a small leak be caught in the pressure/leak test where they monitor WC over a period of time?

Thanks.

[InterBlog]

Originally Posted by GallenH

...
So, InterBlog, are you referring only to the hose type line? Any degradation known with regard to hard lines?

Anyone: Would a small leak be caught in the pressure/leak test where they monitor WC over a period of time?

Thanks.

Our rig has copper lines only where they penetrate the rig to the interior space. The rest (four segments) are the degradable flex lines. If I were building my own van, there's no way I'd use anything but copper over the entire thing, unless there was no choice. Is your fill line also copper? With the way the fittings are set up on ours, it appears to have been designed for a flex segment.

I've never known anyone to do a pressure test. I discovered our propane tank leaking because it produced an audible hissing sound. The hiss was detectable even when the amount of propane being released was so small that I couldn't catch a whiff of the odorant.

[Doneworking]

I suggest using the old tried and trued "blow a bubble" test for propane users.

1. Turn on the propane at the tank.

2. Turn on and ignite each propane using device (stove, heater, refrig) and then shut them off. Leave the propane on at the tank so that the lines are fully pressurized.

3. Mix a tablespoon or so off dishwashing liquid with about a cup or less of water. Mix well.

4. Take a small artist brush (I use a 1/2 inch brush) and liberally drip the soap mixture on each connection and you can literally "paint" the full length of any flex hose if you are concerned. An eye dropper full of the mixture may also be helpful.

5. Any small leak should blow a bubble at the point of the leak.

This isn't rocket science but will sure find a leak if done properly. It will also force you to visually inspect the system as you do the "painting".

[GallenH]

InterBlog. Yes. There is a hose which connects the regulator out to the solid line. That connection is in the propane compartment so is accessible from the fill location. Here is a doc that contains info about the pressure test.....and a lot more. I found it a good read. Best.

[peteco]

Originally Posted by GallenH

InterBlog. Yes. There is a hose which connects the regulator out to the solid line. That connection is in the propane compartment so is accessible from the fill location. Here is a doc that contains info about the pressure test.....and a lot more. I found it a good read. Best.

Thanks, this is a good read. First time I have heard that you should not use soapy water to test for leaks.

"The only acceptable liquid leak detector is commercially made for this purpose. Soap and water should never be used to look for a leak. The soap and water residue can damage the fittings. If you see green around a brass fitting soap and water has been used. Long term this can cause a leak. Only propane leak detector formulated for this purpose should be used."