Price Transparency

[eurovanman]

I just found that http://LaMesaRV.com has more realistic prices than most dealers on their site. They are listing 2015 Travato 59k for $69,000. They even have a 2014 with 4,000 mi. listed for $59,000

[stanw909]

Before going to La Mesa you may want to check reviews and even do a Better Business Bureau search.

[eurovanman]

I'm not recommending LaMesa as a dealer, however their website does show realistic prices for class b's.

[Hamster]

Thanks for all the good advice. As a newbie, I welcome the help. Well, I am negotiating for a CS Adventurous XL with E-Trek package. I hope to give you good news soon, and to see you on the road some long holiday weekend! I'll be broke, but I'll have a shiny, new RT. (Although I guess that "broke" is better than "broke down," as in, "broke down on the shoulder in the rain with 18-wheelers whizzing by.") The rub is that I won't retire from my full-time job for another six years or so. Maybe longer...but even six sounds like a long time most days!

Best, Hamster

[Arlo]

Two years ago I got my E-Trek for about 15% below MSRP. I really like being all electric, but the CS was not available then. I think it is a tough choice between the CS and the E-Trek with the 2nd row driver-side seat replaced by the full-height cabinet (with pull-out desk, which is a nice work space). The E-Trek has a more open feel and better counter space, but I think most people are drawn to the large fridge and eye-level oven in the CS.

[gerrym51]

i said this before but i'll repeat. The CS has the ALDE system. it uses propane. getting the E=trek package on the CS does not eliminate the ALDE. you will still have propane.

you can attempt to 'special order' the Webasto heater on the CS-but it is not an option. i have read many posts about Roadtrek resisting putting webasto on a CS. don't know why.

[Hamster]

Well, I pulled the trigger!

Since I believe that "price transparency" can only help our community--and I can say "our community" now, with the emphasis on "our"--I will share my buying experience thus far.

I have been dealing with Fretz RV, in PA, and with Colonial Roadtrek, in NJ, with respect to a purchase of a Roadtrek CS. I decided a dealer close to home is better than clear across the country. This was a fast purchase, but I've been thinking about this for 6-12 months. I am unaccustomed to spending big money like this, so this was a very deliberate process for me. I really liked the Pleasure-way Sprinter models--they're much less "cave like" than the Roadtreks, and they have the bathroom on the "right" side. But I love the solar, large battery bank, underhood generator, etc. available on the Roadtrek CS...which are not, regrettably, available on the Pleasure-way. Hopefully some day....

So, I got a firm offer from Fretz RV, via email. I then sent that email back to my very patient salesman at Fretz AND to the salesman at Colonial ("We Will Not Be Undersold!") Roadtrek, which was aggressive on my part, thanked both for the time they'd spent with me (with Colonial only over the phone and via email), and asked each for their best price. I thought this was a legitimate, but aggressive, technique to attempt to extract a less-inflated bottom line from each dealer. The gentleman at Colonial objected, perceiving a "sharp" business practice by me (that's my characterization--his was simply "inappropriate") and indicated he did not want my business. The gentleman at Fretz still did, and I wheedled another $850 from him off the previously-quoted price. For good or ill, that's how I handled the negotiations. In retrospect, I should have bargained a bit more with Fretz, and probably engaged a third dealer early on. But I didn't. Did I pay more than I probably needed to? Yes. However, I can live with my purchase price, and I'm looking very, very forward to many years of enjoying my Roadtrek. Is that a bit of rationalization? Probably. I don't want to feel I was stupid and paid way too much. But I will be very happy with the purchase in the long run.

I've ordered a 2015 Roadtrek CS XL. Silver exterior, E-Trek package, standard interior colors, an armoire instead of the 3d captain's chair, screens, aluminum wheels, TV. I want the propane stove. With delivery included, and including this month's factory incentive of $2,000, my purchase price is $128,150. I figure that's between 17% and 18% off MSRP, although I understand that includes the incentive. This is being ordered from the factory. There was a standard length CS on the lot, but for various reasons it did not appeal to me. I have been told that delivery will be in about eight weeks.

I would have liked to find a photo of the armoire on the Internet, but couldn't find one. I like the idea of the extra storage...I just hope it doesn't block too much light. If it does, I figure I can always have it modified by lopping off the top.

This was a big day for me! I would certainly encourage others to post what they paid. Doing so might just save the next guy or gal some dough. Happy Class B camping, my friends, with a special nod to my fellow Roadtrekkers!

Best, Hamster

[booster]

Congratulations, you got yourself what is our favorite of the Sprinter models available. I think you will be very happy with it.

From all we have seen over the years of Roadtrek pricing, you are very near the top end of the discounting normally available for current model years. You also got to special order, and we found dealers less likely to discount them that way. So, I think you did very well.

[wincrasher]

Congratulations! I'm sure you'll be very happy with the CS.

If I understand correctly, the guy at Colonial may have objected to actually sending the pricing sheet to another dealer (if you sent him Fretz's, then he assumes you are sending his elsewhere too). It's one thing to tell them you are getting X price from someone else, but to send the actual quote sheets around may be crossing a line with them - I don't know. I've always heard good things about Colonial, so I'm a bit surprised.

Surprisingly, some dealers don't like being price shopped at all. They'll drop out entirely if you are trying to start a price war. But I don't think Colonial is one of those guys.

[gerrym51]

best way to go-get what you want at fair price from nearby dealer.


as far as a picture of armoir/

Bikerbill has a CS. i don;t think he got armoire but he does have a picture of it-i remember seeing it. you might pm him

[Joan Good]

Trying to decide on what to pay for a 2018 RoadTrek. They are backordered which means I buy sight unseen; however, dealer will give back my deposit if I don't like it. Seems fair,
but I am still uneasy as a senior who is retired. It appears I can afford it, as long as nothing too serious happens and of course since this is my last rv, I want some bells and whistles. I know it is a personal decision, but I need some hand holding. Looking at a RoadTrek Zion.

[BBQ]

Originally Posted by Joan Good

Trying to decide on what to pay for a 2018 RoadTrek. They are backordered which means I buy sight unseen; however, dealer will give back my deposit if I don't like it. Seems fair,
but I am still uneasy as a senior who is retired. It appears I can afford it, as long as nothing too serious happens and of course since this is my last rv, I want some bells and whistles. I know it is a personal decision, but I need some hand holding. Looking at a RoadTrek Zion.

KISS

Not all the bells and whistles are what they make out to be.
(especially the hi-tech things)


BE CAREFUL
BE VERY CAREFUL

Keep it simple.
You will find the most happiness in the simpliest things.

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by Joan Good

Trying to decide on what to pay for a 2018 RoadTrek. They are backordered which means I buy sight unseen; however, dealer will give back my deposit if I don't like it. Seems fair,
but I am still uneasy as a senior who is retired. It appears I can afford it, as long as nothing too serious happens and of course since this is my last rv, I want some bells and whistles. I know it is a personal decision, but I need some hand holding. Looking at a RoadTrek Zion.

IMO, the Zion is a pretty good bang for the buck. You have some options. You can order a new 2018 model or you can buy a new 2017 model at a reduced price. Go to www.rvtrader.com, Class B, Zion, Nationwide and check out what's available nationwide for 2017 and 2018.

An advantage for you is that DeMartini RV which is not far from you is now a RT dealer and repair facility.

If you are buying a 2018, the typical discount you can get is around 15% and in some cases up to 17-18% but that's about it. With the 2017s you can demand a sharper pencil because they want to move them out of inventory.

I don't think there are any changes between 2017 and 2018 but you can verify that on the Roadtrek chat line on their website or call them on their 800 line. If the game plan is to keep the RV for more than 3 years, personally, I would opt for hammering out a great deal on a 2017.

IMO, it''s worth getting the recent technology options including 400ah lithiums, underhood gennny, inverter, Voltstart etc that makes boondocking practical. RT had problems with this technology when it was offered in 2014-2016 but production at this point is relatively trouble free. There are contrarians that opt for embracing the KISS (keep it simple, stupid) principle, but IMO, that approach is most suitable for those pilgrims that are stupid.

Now, if you require the latest driver assistance features, they aren't available on the Promaster or Chevy platforms. You have to go for the Merciless Benz Sprinters for that.

[booster]

Originally Posted by cruising7388

RT had problems with this technology when it was offered in 2014-2016 but production at this point is relatively trouble free. There are contrarians that opt for embracing the KISS (keep it simple, stupid) principle, but IMO, that approach is most suitable for those pilgrims that are stupid.

That is kind of harsh, I think.

It has been my observation that the MORE folks know about how charging systems and batteries work in RV setups, the MORE likely they are to be hesitant about the Roadtrek newer systems and the more they see through the fudged performance promises. So I guess knowledge and stupidity must go together for all of those folks.

[mumkin]

I'm with booster... but the final answer to the question of how much technology to invest in (and it is very pricey... the 400ah lithium package is up to $5000 now... MSRP) is how Joan will use it. If she plans on extensive off grid camping for long periods, definitely make the plunge. Add the solar and the underhood generator and she is good indefinitely for electric. (finding water and dumping becomes the main issues LOL)

If she mainly stays in places that have electric - like many of the parks or campgrounds or the driveways of friends, save a few grand and stick with the old dependable AGMs... easy to run and much cheaper to replace. Just add the solar and underhood generator to keep you topped up.

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by booster

That is kind of harsh, I think.

It has been my observation that the MORE folks know about how charging systems and batteries work in RV setups, the MORE likely they are to be hesitant about the Roadtrek newer systems and the more they see through the fudged performance promises. So I guess knowledge and stupidity must go together for all of those folks.

I'm not sure how concerned Roadtrek is about these "hesitant" folks considering that they are having no problem selling everything they are building. LaMesa is complaining that they are always out of Zions and at this point they don't have a single one in their nationwide inventory.

Roadtrek certainly deserves criticism for their early Etrek blunders but despite the chronic drive-by smears on this forum alluding to proliferating horror stories, the fact is that with respect to Etrek, they have largely cleaned up their act. There are remaining pockets of stupdity, like providing a chintzy 45 amp converter/charger regardless of the ah battery capacity installed in the coach.

What I find particularly infuriating is their marketing shift that no longer permits customers to chose specific options for most models and requires them to order multiple option packages. This may serve their production efficiency but it sure as hell doesn't serve customer interest.

[booster]

Originally Posted by cruising7388

I'm not sure how concerned Roadtrek is about these "hesitant" folks considering that they are having no problem selling everything they are building. LaMesa is complaining that they are always out of Zions and at this point they don't have a single one in their nationwide inventory.

Roadtrek certainly deserves criticism for their early Etrek blunders but despite the chronic drive-by smears on this forum alluding to proliferating horror stories, the fact is that with respect to Etrek, they have largely cleaned up their act. There are remaining pockets of stupdity, like providing a chintzy 45 amp converter/charger regardless of the ah battery capacity installed in the coach.

What I find particularly infuriating is their marketing shift that no longer permits customers to chose specific options for most models and requires them to order multiple option packages. This may serve their production efficiency but it sure as hell doesn't serve customer interest.

Roadtrek doesn't care about the hesitant folks, and they have proved it repeatedly. But that was not the issue, or stated in what I said.

The point was that the folks that are hesitant about getting excited about the Roadtrek technology and how it has been rolled out and serviced were called "stupid", and IMO, they are likely anything but "stupid". They are hesitant because they are smart enough to understand that there are issues with the design and implementation, rather than just believe the exaggerated claims and promises, including the one that says all is great now (because nobody really knows, IMO, at this point).

Just because they are selling means pretty much nothing about the actual quality and performance of the product, and much more to do with claims and promises, at this point. It is pretty obvious that problems don't immediately translate into lack of sales, as the etrek fiasco didn't kill of Roadtrek sales, shown by current backlogs.

The bunched options is taken from the auto industry and is a great profit center because everyone who wants any individual option has to be a whole bunch of others they don't want. Simple manipulation IMO.

Are people "stupid" to say they don't like the way Roadtrek does the packaged options, or do they just have the ability to see that Roadtrek is manipulating things?

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by mumkin

I'm with booster... but the final answer to the question of how much technology to invest in (and it is very pricey... the 400ah lithium package is up to $5000 now... MSRP) is how Joan will use it. If she plans on extensive off grid camping for long periods, definitely make the plunge. Add the solar and the underhood generator and she is good indefinitely for electric. (finding water and dumping becomes the main issues LOL)

If she mainly stays in places that have electric - like many of the parks or campgrounds or the driveways of friends, save a few grand and stick with the old dependable AGMs... easy to run and much cheaper to replace. Just add the solar and underhood generator to keep you topped up.

Well, you at least have the credentials for thrashing Roadtrek because you were at ground zero during the Etrek debacle. But if I recall correctly, in fairness, they did meet your demand to remove the malfunctioning lithium batteries and replace them with AGMs. Wasn't the issue a goofy BMS that would go into a coma, and not the batteries themselves?

There's no question regarding the initial cost of the lithium setup but I think you are omitting some factors needed to do the bottom line math. Roadtrek warrants non-prorated replacement of the lithiums for 6 years. The AGM battery gets only one year of protection. It used to be for a full five years but they were getting clobbered with replacing them. The life expectancy of AGMs seems largely variable, most likely due to the absence of a protective BMS that limits depth of discharge. So I don't think it's unrealistic to assume that during a six year period , AGMS will have to be replaced at least once and sometimes twice. This has to be factored into a long term cost analysis.

You support employing the underhood generator but unless you have invested in premium expensive AGMs (Lifeline et al) their recharge rate is much lower than the recharge rate accepted by lithiums which means substantially longer periods of engine operation or shore power support to accomplish a full recharge. IMO, if you stick with AGMs, the factory alternator will provide the necessary suds and the aux alternator is largely superfluous unless you intend to employ off-grid air conditioning.

Your point regarding determining whether the coach will primarily operate off-grid or with shoreside support is well taken, but in the narrow context of a class B, how applicable is it? If you are going to use commercial sites with hookups, why bother with the high cost and physical constraints of a classs B coach? Get a small class A and be done with it. IMO the virtue of a lower profile B, particularly one with Etrek or similar technology, is the ability to park most anywhere, avoid commercial sites, permitting the convenience of anxiety free traveling without concerns over site reservations etc. Further, at the typical $60 clip for a commercial overnight site with hookups. over the long run it goes a long way toward underwriting the cost of a fully power independent coach.

[booster]

Originally Posted by cruising7388

Well, you at least have the credentials for thrashing Roadtrek because you were at ground zero during the Etrek debacle. But if I recall correctly, in fairness, they did meet your demand to remove the malfunctioning lithium batteries and replace them with AGMs. Wasn't the issue a goofy BMS that would go into a coma, and not the batteries themselves?

There's no question regarding the initial cost of the lithium setup but I think you are omitting some factors needed to do the bottom line math. Roadtrek warrants non-prorated replacement of the lithiums for 6 years. The AGM battery gets only one year of protection. It used to be for a full five years but they were getting clobbered with replacing them. The life expectancy of AGMs seems largely variable, most likely due to the absence of a protective BMS that limits depth of discharge. So I don't think it's unrealistic to assume that during a six year period , AGMS will have to be replaced at least once and sometimes twice. This has to be factored into a long term cost analysis.

You support employing the underhood generator but unless you have invested in premium expensive AGMs (Lifeline et al) their recharge rate is much lower than the recharge rate accepted by lithiums which means substantially longer periods of engine operation or shore power support to accomplish a full recharge. IMO, if you stick with AGMs, the factory alternator will provide the necessary suds and the aux alternator is largely superfluous unless you intend to employ off-grid air conditioning.

Your point regarding determining whether the coach will primarily operate off-grid or with shoreside support is well taken, but in the narrow context of a class B, how applicable is it? If you are going to use commercial sites with hookups, why bother with the high cost and physical constraints of a classs B coach? Get a small class A and be done with it. IMO the virtue of a lower profile B, particularly one with Etrek or similar technology, is the ability to park most anywhere, avoid commercial sites, permitting the convenience of anxiety free traveling without concerns over site reservations etc. Further, at the typical $60 clip for a commercial overnight site with hookups. over the long run it goes a long way toward underwriting the cost of a fully power independent coach.

I am not going to waste time, but etreks were AGM with 5-6 year warranty, and they didn't work, killed batteries, and Roadtrek wouldn't fix them. They never were switched to lithium that I know of. There are two 2015 low mile etreks on ebay right now, they show up all the time.

Not arguing applications, that is a waste of time because all uses are different, but the bottom line is that the folks that are hesitant to jump into the Roadtrek tech, are not "stupid" because they think that. Cautious, yes, hesitant, yes. Justified, probably IMO. That is the discussion that my post was about, not all other stuff you keep jumping to.

If you choose to accept Roadtrek claims and are willing to accept the system as it is, that is your choice, and personal opinion, but that doesn't make others that don't agree "stupid" any more than it makes you or all the other buyers of the tech "stupid".

[BBQ]

.