Potential for electric Tesla type class B?

[ProseMan]

As a writer and futurist, this area is actually in my wheelhouse. The biggest problems I see with most "futurists" is they fail to "think globally" when predicting the future. In other words, you have to think about all the technical changes coming from several directions that eventually converge to provide a new paradigm improvement. Most futurists focus on one problem at a time and note the technical limitations of that one technology, rather than seeing the entire picture.

I've thought a lot about the "total off grid" RV. It's very unlikely that an all electric vehicle would make sense in the next 10 years. However, a "series hybrid" vehicle could be done today or next year. All the technologies are converging. In a year, there will be new battery technology that will double the density of current batteries. There will be a new type of electric motor (HET) that will be 50% more efficient. There will be an ultracapacitor from Maxwell technologies (recently bought by Tesla) that will be capable of recovering 50% more energy from braking, than current lithium batteries, thereby making the electric vehicle more efficient. The liquid piston motor is 60% more efficient than current internal combustion engines and is being developed for the military as a drone engine and range extender. There is a new fresnel focusing solar panel due out in a year that will double the efficiency of solar cells, for the same price.

Put all those technologies together in a front wheel drive Mercedes electric Van, soon to be released in Europe, and you would have this design:

A large, but not huge battery pack, paired with a diesel range extender. (liquid piston) This combo would power the vehicle and all appliances. The roof would have approx. 2000 watts of solar, with the Fresnel panels doubling the efficiency. The efficient electric motor would recover about 60-80% of the energy used to power the vehicle when braking with the only losses coming from wind resistance. When driving, the solar panels would be incapable of keeping up with the motor demands, but if the RV'er was parked for 2-4 days, you'd generate enough solar to recharge the battery pack fully. The range extender would provide the "backup power," at an equivalent mileage of about 60-80 mpg, depending on how long the camper was parked between journeys.

With this setup, the vehicle AC would be powered by electricity and would be under the hood and sized to cool the entire RV, if properly insulated.

To make this vehicle work, you would need to put at all this new technology together. But it could be done in 1-3 years.

[JustPassingBy]

To get back to the OP's question. Rivian is probably providing the best guide to future capability with their BEV truck designed for recreational use https://rivian.com/

The Rivian truck has a rather short bed but no reason a slightly longer bed couldn't support a decent sized truck camper. The truck's specs include 400+ miles range and with its four wheel drive and road clearance it could get well out into the boonies. Take the basic skateboard platform and put a Class B shell on for the same capabilities. It won't be cheap though.

[JustPassingBy]

Originally Posted by tooTallforB?

That issue is actually true for EVs in general: imagine one (or two) EVs in every residential garage, all charging at night at the same time. I don't think the residential grid (or the whole electric grid and production facilities for that matter) are designed for this. But we're not quite there yet.

Modern houses are built with 240V 200 Amp supply with a grid supporting this demand. Charging overnight at home (or at an RV site) which is when most would charge their vehicles is when there is the lowest demand on the grid overall so this is really not an issue. Sure older properties may currently be constrained by old electrical panels but they can be upgraded.

[JustPassingBy]

The Bollinger B2 is another take on the BEV truck. While it has all the off road and load carrying capability it currently only has a 120kWh battery giving 200 mile range. A Class B RV would probably want to have at least 400 miles, so double that battery capacity.https://bollingermotors.com/bollinger-b2/

Both the Rivian and Bollinger trucks are driving around as prototypes and have been for a while. I haven't kept up with production plans but IIRC both are planning to start production in 2020. So maybe a BEV Class B isn't that far away after all, especially because Rivian at least is prepared to sell their platform to other manufacturers.

[RossWilliams]

Originally Posted by JustPassingBy

Modern houses are built with 240V 200 Amp supply with a grid supporting this demand. Charging overnight at home (or at an RV site) which is when most would charge their vehicles is when there is the lowest demand on the so this is really not an issue. Sure older properties may currently be constrained by old electrical panels but they can be upgraded.

I don't think most neighborhood grids are sized to support the maximum load of every home in the neighborhood any more than that 200 amp panel is sized to support maximum draw on all the breakers in the box. Most of the heavy draws in homes are intermittent - stove, heat, ac etc. But 17.2 kilowatts to charge a car is usually way more than all of them combined. It would seem, unless the current grid is grossly oversized, there are going to be problems if everyone plugs in their car for several hours of continuous use. The rest of the load becomes trivial. The exception would be an area of large homes with a grid sized to support large electric furnaces. But that is the exception rather than the rule.

[JustPassingBy]

Originally Posted by RossWilliams

I don't think most neighborhood grids are sized to support the maximum load of every home in the neighborhood any more than that 200 amp panel is sized to support maximum draw on all the breakers in the box. Most of the heavy draws in homes are intermittent - stove, heat, ac etc. But 17.2 kilowatts to charge a car is usually way more than all of them combined. It would seem, unless the current grid is grossly oversized, there are going to be problems if everyone plugs in their car for several hours of continuous use. The rest of the load becomes trivial. The exception would be an area of large homes with a grid sized to support large electric furnaces. But that is the exception rather than the rule.

You're overestimating the problem. A 30 amp, 240 volt, 8 hour charge for an EV only requires 7.2 kW instantaneous power draw and delivers ~58 kWh of charge which is ~90% of a Kia Niro's total battery capacity which in turn provides >250 miles of range. Few people drive >200 miles daily. The 30 amps of current draw is similar to an inefficient 5 ton air conditioner running continuously and well within a 100 amp panel capability let alone 200 amp panel.

A BEV Class B will require a larger capacity battery; using the Rivian platform as an example, that would be 180 kWh for a claimed range of >400 miles, although loading will likely reduce that. If trying to pile up days of back-to-back long distance RV travel, using the BEV range to the full, then a DC fast charger will be required either en route and/or at the destination location. Even so a 50 amp RV site could provide total energy of >140kWh if on site for 12 hours, although I doubt most RV sites could accommodate many users doing this simultaneously.

[Davydd]

In the house I designed and built and lived in for 34 years I had a total of 500 amps over three separate panels - 200 amp general to the house, 200 amp for electric resistant floor heat over 2,400 sf in the house and 100 amps to a detached garage. It was an all electric home with no gas. I think our biggest draw was our water heater. Being super insulated, passive solar and heat sink mass (concrete floors and heavy timber frame) the house was near zero energy and we didn't use that much electricity for heat. Radiant heat was great for comfort.

[RossWilliams]

David -

I think there is a distinction made between continuous and non-continuous service. With multiple panels in parallel your continuous service is determined by the meter rating, assuming they are all on the same meter. You had 500 amps non-continuous service.

I am not an expert on electrical grids, but I believe neighborhood grids are not sized for every meter to draw its full power at the same time. We are a long way from that being a problem for electric vehicles, but it could be a problem in some locations as they become more popular. Particularly if those same people are switching from gas to electric for heating and cooking.

[avanti]

There was a time when the electrical grid was sized for 10 60 watt lightbulbs/home. Demand grew. So did the grid. None of this will happen all at once. It'll be fine.

Moreover, residential solar is growing rapidly. This tends to mitigate the issue due to distributed generation (this is why Tesla sells residential power packs, BTW. There are also schemes for using idle electric vehicles as grid energy caches.). Distributed generation creates its own set of problems, but they, too, will be solved. It'll be fine.