Pleasure Way's new lithium ion (LiFePO4) battery system

[markopolo]

The Saskatoon, Saskatchewan-baseed builder has launched an Eco-Ion coach battery system, which is a new standard feature in all 2016 coaches. The new lithium ion (LiFePO4) battery system provides 200 amp hours of power that greatly enhances energy storage while extending boon docking capabilities.

Full article: http://www.rvbusiness.com/2015/06/pl...h-anniversary/

[Davydd]

Sounds like a dip your big toe in approach. But it's a start.

[markopolo]

If their RV's are otherwise traditional type units with propane etc. then a 200AH lithium ion (LiFePO4) battery pack is a nice feature and it comes as standard equipment.

My guess is that in terms of raw amp hours it's the functional equivalent of 3 big AGM's plus you get the other benefits associated with LiFePO4 batteries like faster charging and long life.

You might never have to replace that battery for as long as you own the RV.

[Jostalli]

Originally Posted by Davydd

Sounds like a dip your big toe in approach. But it's a start.

How do you figure? This is definitely a jump in with both feet: "The Saskatoon, Saskatchewan-baseed builder has launched an Eco-Ion coach battery system, which is a new standard feature in all 2016 coaches."

I'm impressed. Hopefully we will get more info soon.

[Davydd]

It's just a start because they are really not changing how you would use a Pleasure-way all that much with 200ah battery, or throw away the 30 amp cord as Roadtrek put it. Pleasure-way has always been a conservative company when it came to features. For years they insisted one lead-acid battery was all they would support in the Sprinter Plateau. I suspect they will not follow suit anytime soon with as much as a 400ah lifpo battery pack. Also, do we know if it is an assembled battery pack or a drop in Smart Battery type? Remember that yachting article slammed drop ins as well as converter/chargers from companies that dealt with lead-acid converters. And, of course, all those questions Jim Hammill asked I assume goes for Pleasure-way too.

I did go through an extensive analysis of my needs in my Advancing Alvar thread a while back and confirmed (and surprised myself) with some real world testing. My conclusion was the game wouldn't really change significantly in a Class B for me until you reached 400ah capacity which is fairly close to what the current crop of AGM Roadtrek Etreks are capable of. If you read I finally decided on 800ah. That's why I say it is a big toe dip. They are not all in.

[booster]

I think Davydd needs to realize that a leap forward does not necessarily mean going to all electric and huge power consumption. It can also mean a major improvement to the 12v power systems in a "normal" RV, keeping things like propane, for instance, and not having inverters running constantly. There are lots of advantages to this type of setup, aside from cost, like the fact you can actually have enough solar to help you stay off grid without shore power, driving, or generator. 200ah of lithium is a good amount for such a system.

Most of us would have absolutely no problem with getting system that still had propane for heat, hot water, cooking, and 12v for most everything else. It could still run the micro off the engine or batteries as many of us do. It could also easily use under 70 per day, which 300 watts of solar will generally keep up with almost all the time. Having the lithium batteries would shave weight, decrease charge time, and reduce footprint in such a vehicle, so that is a major step, especially when it is put into all models.

We hear often of the "exhaustive analysis" of Davydd's power use predictions and his deciding on 800ah, but he originally chose and argued for vehemently for 400ah, based on his calculations. Many folks here told him that was too low, but he argued on. Finally, he started to consider 600ah, although most were still saying he really needed the 800ah to do what he wanted. Argued vehemently for the 600ah. Davydd finally decided on 800ah only after a visit to ARV, where they apparently convinced him to get the 800ah.

[wincrasher]

Well, things are starting to make some sense now. Roadtrek made thier announcement either in anticipation of, or respond to what they heard Pleasureway was going to do.

So maybe well see some kind of battery wars between these two.

Will be interesting for sure. Will Winnebago and Thor sit this out for awhile, or are they going to jump in?

[Davydd]

Booster,

You have some pretty bizarre misconceptions. No one at Advanced RV "apparently convinced him [me] to get the 800ah." Where did you get the vehemently and where did I argue on? I put a lot of information out there for others to comment and I research and learned as I went along. As for "most were still saying he really needed the 800ah to do what he wanted" neither you or anyone else at the time had any more clue than I and in fact you still don't understand the philosophical mindset independence on the road difference in my opinion. You are only compensating and defending what you are capable of with your Chevy Roadtrek. At this time anything you say about LiFeP04 batteries is just pure inexperienced speculation on your part.

For the record including the message I posted here, I originally thought 400ah lifpo could do it and still do as I said here. After more analysis on things I was getting I got a bit more comfortable with 600ah. At the last minute my what the heck attitude of leaving nothing on the table to regret in the future I did go to 800ah. Now in hindsight, and I have explained in great detail, I have no regret with that decision with the things I've learned on the road. If they had offered 1200ah at the time as they have now I probably would have taken it. But at no time did I feel 200ah could be a significant game changer in how I used my B.

[wincrasher]

Looks like they are using the Progressive Dynamics lithium charger/converter. Here is the manual I found on it.

http://www.progressivedyn.com/pdfs/1...%20English.pdf

[gerrym51]

the more power you have the more you use.

[markopolo]

More info:

Pleasure way eco ion lithium.jpg

The only question I'd have would be to find out the operating temperature range and specifically the lowest temperature they can be charged at if there's a chance that you'll use the RV in really cold weather.

And I mean specifically for these batteries use by Pleasure-Way - not lithium batteries in general.

Lots of RV's are stored before freezing weather sets in and not used again until outside temps warm up again. Temperature may or may not be a concern depending on your planned RV usage.

[wincrasher]

Interesting. I thought earlier they announced they were using Smart Battery?

[markopolo]

Nope - here's the news release: Pleasure-Way ’16 Models Mark 30th Anniversary | RV Business

They might be re-branded Smart Batteries or similar but that's not what was reported.

[wincrasher]

The Stark brand of batteries look similar too. They have a 125 ah battery of the same dimensions and BMS features that looks pretty good.

Could be some re-branding going on, I don't know.

If I remember correctly, the Pleasureways have a battery box in the floor in the rear of their coaches. You access from the top or floor of the RV. Essentially that box is part of the cabin. All I think they'd need to do is insulate that box if it isn't already.

The picture in the press release shows a battery mounted under the sofa. If that's how they are going to do it, then it's going to be cabin temp. Maybe they are just going to handle it operationally - give you a warning to not charge unless the cabin is above freezing.

[mikes47]

Quote: "... New 2016 optional equipment includes a Go Power 95 watt solar package with digital solar controller; Go Power 190 watt solar package with digital solar controller; Go Power 285 watt solar package with digital solar controller; ..."

Curious to see how Pleasure way instructs clients related to freezing weather and charging for those who opt for the solar packages.

[mojoman]

China bought A123 systems which included the patents for their cells which are used in several of these batteries. I suspect allot of these batteries will be coming from China. If you buy a container full, they will run about $300-400 each which is inline with the typical 150% markup of the venders.

[gerrym51]

does pleasure way combine these with an inverter.

[sheral]

Sure glad now that Pleasure Way is what some call conservative. Reading all the problems that many Road Trek owners are facing with their newly applied technology is mind boggling...

[sheral]

Originally Posted by gerrym51

does pleasure way combine these with an inverter.

Yes they do...

[wincrasher]

If you look at my pics from Hershey, I show where they mount the charger on the side wall - it's a PD like I have in my van. It is not combined with an inverter - they aren't using a big inverter - they are doing a small one for the entertainment systems like they always have. Don't know if a bigger one is an option.

Their "eco battery" is in the same box in the floor that they have always used for their AGM batteries. It now has a nice embossed faceplate.

Their solar option is kinda pricey - I saw $1800 for the 100 watt panel.

So far, I have heard zero complaints about the Pleasureway setup. Not sure how many they have sold. Don't think they are using any kind of sophisticated system display panel. Their approach seems to be it's the same as their AGM setup, but it's just lithium now.