PC or Mac or something else?

[Mike]

I think these options are the most mainstream choices. Please add anything
else you might prefer for everyday internet and email access, in a posting to this
poll.
Thanks.

[Dieps]

Had to give the smartphone a vote. Serious computing is done on a PC but I travel a lot so my smartphone delivers emails, directions and countless other things while I'm traveling.

[shezonit]

I've had a MacBook for 3 years. In 3 years I called Apple Care only once for a question-, waited maybe a minute to talk to a live person who solved the problem immediately. Just before my warranty was going to run out, I wanted to get some cracks in the plastic case fixed. When I called, they said they would have fixed it even if the warranty was over (!). Took it in, 5 days later I had what looks like a brand new computer keyboard, touchpad,case! AND, without me asking, they changed out the " failing" 120 GB hard drive for a 160 GB. !!!
Compare this with the Toshiba Satellite laptop I had before this-- it was in for repairs every few months, the AC cord broke, the battery only lasted about an hour( my Mac is good for at least 4 hours++) and the thing had virus scans going on at seemingly random times- drove me crazy. Get a Mac.
I travel a lot and I've thought about a smart phone, but don't want the monthly contract, especially with &^%$% AT&T.
I have a cheap prepaid cell phone- costs me about $15. a month. I have a good GPS with a big screen I use both in van and on my motorcycle. I find free wifi almost everywhere.

[VernM]

Sony Vaio laptops (3) have been the computer of choice since IBM sold the ThinkPad. My newest Vaio is the VPCEE23FX, purchased for about one-half of what the first one cost back when they were new. It died, but #2, a VGN-S480, is now serving as backup and most-frequent traveler. Among the most-used programs on the road is WinTV, which, with a little receiver and antenna/cable jack device plugged into a port, gives almost as good TV as does the home receiver. WinTV is from Hauppauge. It is Windows7 compatable too.

As I've noted elsewhere, you can run a laptop computer from a modified sine wave power source since all that I know of actually use the internal battery for power and just charge the battery from the AC.

[markopolo]

Damn - these Mac's are expensive. I'm kinda fed up with Microsoft's endless updates. If you are ever unfortunate enough to be on a slow internet connection you will realize that Microsoft's stuff will end up costing you either in time (your time) or money. (I have to pay for anything over 3gb worth of data per month) A recent MS automatic update just screwed up two PC's in my house. Link: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/outlook/archive ... -2007.aspx - if you are technically inclined look up KB2412171 and KB2458611.

I'm ready to buy a mac after almost two decades with MS stuff but am shocked that Apple products are pretty much double the price compared to PC stuff.

I just want stuff that works.

[Mike]

We just got back from a drive around the area looking at stuff (Xmas lights mostly.
It's one of those weird things we do this time of year ).
Oddly, we were discussing the possibility of switching to a Mac as well, and I was
under the impression they were at least 1/2 again as much as comparable PCs. Twice??? Hmmmm?
However, if they do what we want them to do, which MS no longer does (OE6 was one of our
favorite and most usable/beneficial programs, and it's functionality is now history), we'll consider it.
I have a to do list, starting with research Mac's and their proprietary email program. As far as I
know, most websites and applications support, or offer, Apple compatible software. So, unless there
is a serious shortfall in the Apple software, we're looking at them, starting tomorrow. (I'm not a big
fan of Quicktime, never have been).
My nearest Best Buy has a dedicated Apple geek, so I'll start with him.

marko: Although you pay for everything you use over 3GB, look at it as PPU (pay per usage).
Any ISP is hoping to sell you more bandwidth than you can use in a month, because it benefits
them. If you go over your limit and have to pay extra, it's better than paying extra for something
you don't use. At least IMHO.

[Mike]

By way of update, I recently talked to the "Apple Geek" at Best Buy and it appears that
the Macs have the same email system, more or less, as the PCs. He suggested separate
Windows (or whatever Macs have) ids/logons and to maintain multiple images on the same
machine, which is no better than PC and more expensive. As is buying 2 laptops.
Square one deja vu all over again.

[Ron J. Moore]

Oops,

Better move me from PC to MAC!! My Dell is dying...time for a change. Ron

[Queen]

I switched to a mac a few years ago, but am still stuck using a PC at work. I wouldn't go back to a PC at home for all the tea in China.

[Davydd]

I've been Apple Mac at home now since its inception 27 years ago when I bought my first computer. At work it had always been PC MS DOS and Windows. So I intimately knew the differences and much preferred the Mac. If you want and buy equal quality and equal features to features you'll find Mac and PCs really are not that much different in price. Admittedly though if you want really cheap there is a PC manufacturer out there that will provide it and most likely you will just end up paying the same over time just in a different way called aggravation.

Here is why I will continue to stick with Apple. I own iPods, iPads, an iPhone, an Apple TV and Mac laptops. They all integrate seamlessly both in hardware and OSes and if a bug does crop up (and they do) you absolutely know Apple will quash it sooner rather than later. The Mac OS has always been more intuitive and easier to use than other OSes. The bonus is the iPhone, iPod, and iPad have been the reputed leaders in their categories and they work together with the Mac like no other computing system. You have assurance you are going with quality and winners across the board. You can run Microsoft's Windows OS or Linux on your Mac if you so desire or your geekdom drives you. You can also go directly into its Unix system if geeky testosterone gets the better of you.

If you own a PC you are dependent on the PC manufacturer to coordinate with Microsoft's various OSes. There are no guarantees they will stay in sync with each other. Most likely you will opt for a smartphone, a music playing device, a tablet, etc. and most likely they will be by different companies than your computer or operating system. Once again there is no guarantee all these devices will work together seamlessly or stay in sync with each other for bug fixes and updates. The various companies do not have the equal market share, resources, technical know how, or money to keep sync with everyone else. Geeks love all this because they can even "build" their own personal systems and think that is freedom. The average user surfing the internet, e-mailing, managing photos, coordinating devices, doing general computing tasks get extremely frustrated. Most people actually have a high tolerance and actually accept the aggravation and just assume it is normal since home and office are the same.

The ugly historic perspective: The PC benefited more from specialty programming to solve a myriad of business functions. That perception led to the belief you got more and entrenched it self in the corporate world, but home and RV users really don't need that as much as business. That same belief hid the fact that Mac users, for instance, had Microsoft Word in WYSIWYG graphic GUI mode a good 8 years before PCs. Photoshop and page layout programs were on the Mac several years before PCs. In fact most all the popular applications from Adobe were first developed on the Mac. Apple set the tone with a GUI interface that kick started Microsoft to develop Windows probably before they were ready to. Apple again set the standard for music players, smartphones and most recently the tablet. They just know how to do it right. It is a question of do you follow leaders or wallow with followers?

[Mike]

What's Apple's pension and retirement benefit program like?
Sounds like you have an orchard in your home!

It would seem that the Apple/Mac kingdom has a slight edge on here (so far) based on my poll responses,
so your comments about RVers not being bound by the business aspects of the PC/MS world, appear to
be plausible.

Q: Can a Mac/Apple product run Outlook Express V6? Or can they still get licensed copies of Win XP?
If there's one out there somewhere that can, I'd be interested in it.
I'm looking for a solution to a single shared laptop, with one OS environment, where we don't want to have to
logoff one Windows user, and logon with a different Windows user, on the same machine, nor maintain the
multiple user environments that this creates. However, I want the separate id aspect of the old Outlook Express
V6 mail client. Although insecure (MS's official reason for removing that functionality?), it was useful for people
like Joe or Jane Average who just don't want to see everyone else's email all over the mail client page every time
we hit "send/receive". It's messy and dangerous.
I want to share a laptop with my family, but not have to worry about seeing anyone else's email while I'm reading,
copying, moving, deleting, importing, exporting, or otherwise updating mine. Windows Live Mail does not have this
feature which I liked and the only other way to do it is to run Windows 7 Pro or Ultimate with the XP Mode feature,
which is more expensive, to buy a second laptop, which is more expensive and requires me to maintain a second OS
environment, or to use 2 different mail clients, like WLM and Mozilla Thunderbird, which isn't more expensive, but
which strikes me as inherently unwieldy, when I've just shelled out a lot of money for a machine and OS that doesn't
do what I want.
As I said in a previous post, I spoke to the Apple Geek, and for all their benefits and extra cost, a Mac apparently can't
solve my problem either.

[Davydd]

I have Apple stock that I bought after splits at about $6 per share in 1996. It has been very, very good to me.

I can't answer whether Outlook Express still works on the Mac. I had long ago removed it from my Mac because I much preferred the integrated with the rest of Apple's software, Apple's Mail program. It essentially is identical to Outlook in functionality. I think I read somewhere that Microsoft quit developing Outlook for the Mac because most Mac users came to the same conclusion as I.

As for different users it is very simple to set up a Mac for multiple users with a simple log off, log on. Each user has access to any application on the Mac but what they see is customized to what they set up for themselves. Thus, each would only see the Mail app with their stuff, their preference setups and their mailboxes and folders. Works the same with browsers in regard to preferences and saved bookmarks. Even the Desktops are different in how you want to set up. Saved documents are private to each user. Bottom line, each person's stuff is undisturbed by the other and can't be seen as if each signed on with his own computer.

I even have my computer set up with a "Guest" user with the simple logical password "guest" so anyone can use my computer without messing anything up. That's valuable during holidays when people stay at our house and want to surf the internet.

One account can be the administrator to prevent others from making changes to your computer like deleting applications and its supporting files or making system changes. However, you can have multiple administrators if you desire to give your spouse equal rights.

[Mike]

Originally Posted by Davydd

I have Apple stock that I bought after splits at about $6 per share in 1996. It has been very, very good to me.

I can't answer whether Outlook Express still works on the Mac. I had long ago removed it from my Mac because I much preferred the integrated with the rest of Apple's software, Apple's Mail program. It essentially is identical to Outlook in functionality. I think I read somewhere that Microsoft quit developing Outlook for the Mac because most Mac users came to the same conclusion as I.

Does Apple's Mail program allow multiple people to use the same OS image and not be privy to each other's mail, like Outlook Express 6? I want the exact same functionality of OE6, but to be able to use it on Windows 7. Or whatever Apple's
latest operating system is, possibly.

Originally Posted by Davydd

As for different users it is very simple to set up a Mac for multiple users with a simple log off, log on. Each user has access to any application on the Mac but what they see is customized to what they set up for themselves. Thus, each would only see the Mail app with their stuff, their preference setups and their mailboxes and folders. Works the same with browsers in regard to preferences and saved bookmarks. Even the Desktops are different in how you want to set up. Saved documents are private to each user. Bottom line, each person's stuff is undisturbed by the other and can't be seen as if each signed on with his own computer.

Exactly. Each user gets access to the "out of the box" applications on any logonid. I do all the maintenance on all the laptops in our house (our old Thinkpad is just about ready for the IBM museum of laptops), including adding all of the customized software (and there is a fairly large list) and functionality and productivity related applications, and I don't want to have to maintain multiple images on the same laptop, which also implies multiple copies of all of those non-OEM programs. As I said in my previous post, yes setting up the separate password protected Windows (or Mac?) logonids, is easy, maintaining them isn't, at least it's not worth the headaches in our case.

Originally Posted by Davydd

I even have my computer set up with a "Guest" user with the simple logical password "guest" so anyone can use my computer without messing anything up. That's valuable during holidays when people stay at our house and want to surf the internet.

We have a requirement that guests provide their own web surfing machines, and we will supply internet access via our shared router, if possible.

Originally Posted by Davydd

One account can be the administrator to prevent others from making changes to your computer like deleting applications and its supporting files or making system changes. However, you can have multiple administrators if you desire to give your spouse equal rights.

I've never been worried about other users doing damage, as there's only one other user with access to our laptops, and she has Administrator powers far greater than anything Microsoft or Apple could ever grant. We just want some things on Win 7 the same way they were on Windows XP, with one mail application, that 2 people can use, securely, on a shared machine, without creating 2 separate software environments. I don't want to replicate customized software apps, and have to deal with it from a maintenance perspective, when I should be able to install them once and have them universally available to everyone on the machine, and when I change or upgrade a program, everyone gets the benefit of the upgrade, not just the user who is logged on at the time(me). When I'm paying hundreds or thousands of dollars for an electronic device, I expect it to do what I want.
I expect it with everything I buy, with very few exceptions, and I will only compromise when all other possible work arounds or other options have been exhausted. I will wait until a newer version of the OS comes out, on the albeit slim chance that the functionality I want may be restored, if requested by enough people, because someone will finally figure out that they made a mistake by removing it in the first place. I don't want to finger point, or say "I told you so", I just want the old functionality back.

[Davydd]

There is no need to double up on software on the Mac for two users. You are applying your PC thinking to this problem when I thought I explained that.

You probably need to go to an Apple store to get a thorough demonstration or explanation because I can guarantee you if you go to store like Best Buy you will probably get some real stupid advice.

[Mike]

Originally Posted by Davydd

There is no need to double up on software on the Mac for two users. You are applying your PC thinking to this problem when I thought I explained that.

So if you install a game or Firefox or some other non-Apple proprietary on the Administrator id on your Mac, the Guest id can see and use the same program from the same install library? On a PC, I would have to install it on both Windows ids, Admin and Guest, for example, for each user to be able to access it. And since I would be the one setting it up to make all the functional and useful apps available to both users ids on the machine, I would have to manually replicate all the software and settings, they don't just magically cross the River Styx from one id to another without conscious effort (mine).
Try this. Install a simple 3rd party app on your Admin id, let it install and place an icon shortcut to the program on your desktop. Then logoff the Admin id and logon to the Guest id. Is the game icon shortcut there on the Guest's desktop? If it isn't, then you have to either install the app (again) on the Guest id, or create some sort of shortcut back to the Admin id's desktop to access it. True or false? Now I'm curious. I'm using a game as an example. I actually have a list of productivity tools and programs I like to have on any machine I use. The list is long, and it's easier to keep up to date if I only have to do it on one machine, one user id.

Originally Posted by Davydd

You probably need to go to an Apple store to get a thorough demonstration or explanation because I can guarantee you if you go to store like Best Buy you will probably get some real stupid advice.

There is an Apple Store in Mississauga Ontario, about 40 miles away, and I will stop by the next time I'm near there.
However, the guy in the navy blue Apple logo shirt at Best Buy, was identified to me as an employee of Apple.
I did not ask to see his Apple/Mac id card, but I believe he is an Apple Geek. He does the demos of the Apple
products at the Best Buy I frequent, and is quite knowledgeable about all things Apple. He also regrettably has PC
experience, as he was a convert and born again, like many, at some point in his sordid PC past.
I explained to him exactly what I wanted to do, use the same separate identity functionality as was available
in the V6 Outlook Express mail system on Win XP, on any one of his Macs, and he said they can't replicate that
feature/function. The best they can do is what a PC does, that is, as you have suggested, separate the mail
inboxes and settings via separate Windows or Mac logon ids, like Admin and Guest, etc.
I thanked them for their time and left the store, still looking for a solution to my new laptop, old email dilemma.
I may resort to the Windows 7 Pro work around if all of our current laptops fail suddenly, and I have no
choice, however, for now I'll just make do with what we have.
I'm not looking for an argument or trying to be obtuse, I'm just telling you it doesn't work on a PC without
spending more money and adding some extra software, and an Apple guy says it can't be done on a Mac
either, the way I want it to work. You've got the last word on this one.

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by Mike

So if you install a game or Firefox or some other non-Apple proprietary on the Administrator id on your Mac, the Guest id can see and use the same program from the same install library?

Yes. That is exactly what I said. If you install an application you only do so once be it a game, Firefox, Word, Mail, or whatever. Setting up an ID for another user is a matter of a few clicks, assignable privileges, name and password. That takes about a minute or two to do. The Mac has a menu bar along the top of the screen. That is a constant. Under the Apple symbol if you pull it down there is a "Log Out <your name>". That will shutdown every app you are in and hot restart your computer in just a few seconds. A startup window will come on giving you all the IDs you have set up. For instance on my Mac I have myself, my wife and guest. The person using the computer then clicks on the ID choice and types in his/her password. The Mac comes up exactly the way he/she set it up as if it is only his/her computer. The Desktop and directories will have folders and documents the way he/she placed them. There is an application shortcut menu bar at the bottom of the screen that he/she can setup the way he/she wants it. If he/she open the Mail application it comes up with his/her e-mail, folders and exactly how he/she wants it set up. The logged in user can open a Firefox or Safari browser and it will open exactly the way he/she set up his/her preferences with menu bars, bookmarks, browser history, etc. Same for the Address Book app or any other application they use. Essentially it is as if each person logged on is seemingly looking at his/her own personal computer. The other IDs can't change anything they did, add, delete or move anything around on them and they have total privacy. Despite this there is still only one say Firefox application installed on the computer and you don't have to set up anything for anyone unless of course they want help.

[Mike]

That explanation sounds almost do-able, if it works the way you say with non-OEM
software. Thanks. I will investigate the Apple/Mac further at my earliest opportunity.
I may revisit the PC world too, to see if Win7 has similar functionality.
I don't think they do, but I can surely ask again.

[Ron J. Moore]

Davydd:
Thanks for that info - I just picked up a MacPro today from Best Buy and will be up to learning this new machine. Ron

[booster]

I am by no means a computer wiz, so I must be missing something. The procedure that Davydd describes sounds just like the way my PC is setup. Multiple signon names and passwords, if wanted, programs installed once, on one signon but available on all, but individual info and settings stored only for that signon. Our home PC is on XP and runs this way, with Outlook Express for on PC e-mail and Yahoo for webmail. The new laptop is on Windows 7, and appears to work the same way, at least on everything I have installed so far. We have the Yahoo web mail on the laptop, as it will be the traveling computer, although I will probably put Windows Mail on it to see how that works, as it is easier to put pics in the body of the e-mail, like on Express, or so I have been told. I have also been told some of the other 3rd party e-mail programs work very well, but haven't tried them yet.

[Mike]

I think you'll find that on Windows 7, Windows Live Mail, or the predecessor Windows Mail, will
receive all email in and out, if more than one person has their email id defined on it. That's
what all this is about. I was looking for a new laptop to replace our old Thinkpad which is slowly
getting hard drive dementia. I found a new HP, and thought I'd hit the jackpot, it was fast, slick,
and expandable, and ran Windows 7 Home Premium, which I'd had a brief encounter with at a local
public library. I thought all was well, until I tried to set up separate identities for me and the missus
on the Windows Live Mail client, like they are set up on OE6 on WinXP. As soon as I hit send/receive
I noticed I could see all her stuff and she could see all of mine. It appears that MS removed this bit
of functionality, when they introduced Windows Mail on Vista, and then replaced it with Windows Live
Mail on Win 7. The official reason was that OE6 wasn't "secure".
The fixes for this, as suggested by the Best Buy Geek Squad, a software geek on Microsoft's support
forum http://social.answers.microsoft.com/For ... k/threads/, Davydd on this forum,
and many web blogs on the internet, among others is
1) Use separate logonids on a shared machine and separate the mail programs and inboxes that way.
2) Buy a software upgrade to Win7 Pro or Ultimate, if the laptop didn't come with it, for a couple extra
hundred $$$, and run a desktop version (like a virtual machine) of WinXP, and then recreate the OE6
functionality, under the virtual XP image.
3) Use 2 different mail systems on the shared laptop, so that for example, at home, I could use Windows
Live Mail for my main ISP/DSL cable attached email, and my wife could use Mozilla Thunderbird or some
other similar mail program, to manage her email (this is one option I am still pondering). We would also
use our ISP's Webmail when we're on the road, which is similar to Yahoo or Hotmail, although a bit more
neanderthal.
4) buy 2 new laptops, 1 each, and segregate our email that way.
5) wait until our remaining XP based netbook fails too, and then worry about it.

I'm leaning towards 5), although 3) might be a possibility, or 1) if I can verify that installed non-OEM
programs on a Mac are seamlessly available across all logonids on the shared machine. I've had instances
on my XP based machine where they weren't.