Our next rig

[avanti]

Here is a little video from the undermount-AC people, showing the system I am using (which, BTW, just arrived).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvwCj3uOLKg

[Boxster1971]

avanti - thanks for directing me back to your build thread. Looking forward to hearing more about your build once you take delivery - exciting for you, I'm sure.

I'm also hoping to have one custom built some day in the future.

Wishing you all the best for your new Ford Transit.

[avanti]

Well, I have good news and bad news.

First the good news:
We have taken delivery of our new Transit touring coach, and we are very happy indeed. This was a long, expensive, time-consuming process but we now own a rig that is as close a match to our needs and tastes as we knew how to make it. This was a 100% clean-slate project, so any design flaws are totally our own fault. The decision to generally follow the basic floor plan of our current GWV Legend was interesting. When we enter the van, it is a strange combination of very familiar and completely new. It was definitely the right thing, though. I can't count the number of times we went out to measure the detailed dimensions of this or that, or to send pictures to the upfitter. We changed many things, but having a concrete starting point was hugely useful.

There are some new ideas, which I will describe individually as time permits. But, here are a few teasers:

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I know several folks have been curious as to who the upfitter was. As I explained, I didn't want to talk about them until I knew the outcome. So here we are: The builder was Creative Mobile Interiors in Grove City OH. We spoke to several high-end upfitters who said they did "custom" work. CMI was the only one who didn't push back when I started talking about unusual ideas. Their business model is "Fully custom" and they mean it. They don't specialize in any particular platform, but they have been around for almost 25 years, and have worked on most everything. They don't even specialize in vans--in fact, the majority of their business is converting large busses, both as RVs and as commercial vehicles. (There are always several vans on their shop floor, though.) They even restore old rigs (they once restored Johnny Cash's tour bus). Of course, this means that they don't have off-the shelf designs, jigs, or rigid opinions about a specific chassis. That is probably a disadvantage for someone looking for a variant of an exiting design. But for those who want to be unconstrained, their skill-set is ideal. The quality of their work will become evident as we move along. They have an interesting methodology for blending prototyping and construction which I will try to describe later. It was a very good collaboration.

So, what's the bad news?
Well, I was really looking forward to revealing a little-known but truly great alternative for those considering a custom build. But, as things turn out, they have recently closed on a business transaction that will soon change their position in the market in a way inconsistent with this kind of project. I can't be more specific since the event is not yet public. Sorry for more mystery.

As I said, I will chip away at the details when I can. Stay tuned...
--Pete

[ks@yvr]

Congratulations on the new van, it does look nice. Just curious on how the bed sets up, your bathroom and your cooking setup. More pictures please. Enjoy.

[GeorgeRa]

Wishing you best with your new van, looking forward for more details.

[avanti]

OK, I guess I'll start with the hardest (and maybe most interesting) part.

The rear third of the van is a lounge/dining/bed area:

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There are two tables, each with a Lagun mount. The can be positioned for eating:

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and can also be stowed out of the way:

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The passenger-side table can also be used as an extension to the galley countertop.

Each seat has a little console with two 120VAC power outlets and an "up/down" switch:

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The seats can be individually reclined for lounging and TV watching.

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They are DC-powered, so do not need the inverter to be on. They can also be controlled by the van's automation system.

[to be continued...]

[avanti]

You can continue to recline until one or both beds are completely flat:

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They can be used as twin beds:

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or the center armrest can be folded forward to form a roughly-queen-sized bed:

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The cushions are 4" dense foam. When in "bed" mode, the plywood support surfaces under the foam are completely flat. In "seat" mode, the back of the seat bottoms slide down 4" lower than the fronts, to form comfortable seats.

A single traveller can leave one bed made up and use the other as a lounge chair:

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[...to be continued...]

[avanti]

At the rear of each outer armrest, there is a USB-B/C outlet, so phones, laptops etc can be charged without the need of power bricks:

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There is a third switch above the galley counter that controls both beds simultaneously. This makes it easy to switch between "bed" and "seat" modes.

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Here's what the seats look like from the rear.

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The area underneath is clear-span--supported only by the sides of the van. There is a large drawer under the seats in the front, and the back is open for misc. storage.

[GeorgeRa]

Looks great. Am I seeing correctly that these are 2 panels beds, one sliding horizontally one hinged? What is the bed length and what bearings were used for sliding panel?

[avanti]

Originally Posted by GeorgeRa

Looks great. Am I seeing correctly that these are 2 panels beds, one sliding horizontally one hinged? What is the bed length and what bearings were used for sliding panel?

When made up as a queen bed, the cushions are 72" long and 63" wide. The passenger side has an extra 4" stationary padded foot space under the galley extension, since I am 6'3".

The slides are all made from very heavy-duty drawer slides. They had to be very strong, since the front ends of the beds are cantilevered nearly the full length of the seat bottoms. They are quite rigid.

They are basically tri-fold beds, hinged in two places. The three pieces are the seat bottom, the seat back, and the odd-shaped "jigsaw puzzle" piece that mates to headrest. As I mentioned, the rear of the seat bottom does not move horizontally, but rather slopes downward 4" to make the seat bottom conformant. This made the slide mechanism kind of complex.

[Boxster1971]

Congratulations avanti - new van looks great. Love the mirrors on the upper part of bath doors. I don't understand why more folks don't add large mirrors in that area - it really opens up the feeling in the small space of a van. I added a smaller one to our bath door and it is great.

Thanks for sharing name of your upfitter. Sorry to hear they might not stay in market.

After a nearly two-year process for a custom van build, I finally gave up a few months ago as it became too expensive.

[GeorgeRa]

My bottom panel sliders are 300lbs capacity and extend 3’. 2 folks sitting in the edge of the erected bed put significant load on the slides so I added flipped down legs. They latched in the upper position. Your situation could be different, I think you have sets of sliders.

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by Boxster1971

Congratulations avanti - new van looks great. Love the mirrors on the upper part of bath doors. I don't understand why more folks don't add large mirrors in that area - it really opens up the feeling in the small space of a van. I added a smaller one to our bath door and it is great.

Thanks for sharing name of your upfitter. Sorry to hear they might not stay in market.

After a nearly two-year process for a custom van build, I finally gave up a few months ago as it became too expensive.

With time available DIY is a good option. We like ours a lot, if something would go wrong with the van we would fix the van but not get a new camper van, like it too much

[avanti]

Originally Posted by ks@yvr

Congratulations on the new van, it does look nice. Just curious on [...] your bathroom [...]. More pictures please. Enjoy.

Here is the bath:

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Each door has a slide-out privacy panel that can be used to make a little "dressing room" just outside the bath.

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Nice for drying off after a shower.

[avanti]

I sat down to describe the Transit's coach electrical system, and quickly realized that there was a lot to describe. So, instead of writing a tome, I wlll go with a bunch of bite-sized topics. Here is a gentle introduction:

The base system is 24VDC, with a 100A buck converter to provide 12V, and various smaller converters providing 5V. The main battery comprises two 200Ah@25.6V LiFePO4 packages wired in parallel. That comes out to about 10KWh. The batteries and most of the power system are Victron products, which play very well with the automation system.

In order to save interior space, I had CMI build a box suspended beneath the van, in a space between the rear differential and the spare tire. This box is permanently attached to the van -- there is no battery access from below. Rather, there is a hatch on the floor of the van -- the batteries are accessed from above:

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The box is robust and well-protected due to its position. Here is a view from the bottom:

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In addition to the standard 12V heating pads, there is an active ventilation system with an interesting twist. The box is vented to the outdoors via three weatherproof vents (the white disks in the picture). There is also an air duct that connects the interior of the box to the interior of the van. This duct contains an in-line bilge fan, controlled by the van's automation system. These components can be seen here:

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The fan can be run in either direction, so it is possible to create airflow through the box either from the outdoors or the interior of the van. There are three temperature sensors (outdoors, indoors, and inside the box). These are used by the system to decide whether and in which direction to run the fan, depending on ambient and battery temperatures. This provides an energy-efficient way to keep the battery's environment correct under a wide range of situations. The operation is completely automatic, and the system is capable of controlling the fan speed as well as direction, so it should be quiet under most circumstances.

[booster]

Interesting spin on battery box ventilation. I expected to see a fixed underbody box, didn't know if it would be external or internal loadable with the batteries, but expected to see a two hose, always using internal van air ventilation system. The choice of one hose, reversible, and with external air connection will need some pondering on my part, I think.


Two possible things that I might worry about would be the taking of the van negative pressure if the battery fan was blowing out of the van, probably to keep them warm with the windows shut.


The other would be the potential for sucking in exhaust or other bad air while driving if the fan is blowing into the van.


Does the automation take care of stuff like that?

[avanti]

Originally Posted by booster

Two possible things that I might worry about would be the taking of the van negative pressure if the battery fan was blowing out of the van, probably to keep them warm with the windows shut.

The other would be the potential for sucking in exhaust or other bad air while driving if the fan is blowing into the van.

Does the automation take care of stuff like that?

I doubt that negative pressure will be a problem. No data yet, but I picture this fan running pretty gently. When driving, the chassis' ventilation system will almost always be pumping in outside air. When parked, we never keep the windows closed. If I turn out to be wrong, it would be easy enough to automatically crack the Maxxfan lid a bit when the fan is pumping outward.

We did consider exhaust gases. Both the engine and Espar exhaust pipes are positioned such that it is unlikely to be an issue. I am going to check, though, and if there is a problem, I will forbid inward fan motion when either the engine or the Espar is running. And, of course, the van has a CO detector.

EDIT: Perhaps I should add a little dedicated dangerous gas sensor at the vehicle side of the duct. Easy enough.

[GeorgeRa]

Did your builder provide you with a detail electric diagram? I have one representing a current state of wiring and it was a lifesaver in troubleshooting. Plumbing diagram is valuable as well as my memory is not perfect.

I read your ventilation and am trying to understand what was the problem which needed to be solved. Wouldn’t a simple passive cooling with correctly place vents facilitating convection within the box would be sufficient to cool batteries. Heating is solved with heating pads.

I would suggest to improve cable routing to eliminate its contact with aluminum bar which can cause short. Vibration can wear off cable insulation.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by GeorgeRa

Did your builder provide you with a detail electric diagram? I have one representing a current state of wiring and it was a lifesaver in troubleshooting. Plumbing diagram is valuable as well as my memory is not perfect.

Yes, definitely. Our contract specified that we would receive all original CAD files created for the project. So, we have complete documentation, both mechanical and electrical. which I can keep up to date. They have an actual EE on staff, so the design quality is high.

I read your ventilation and am trying to understand what was the problem which needed to be solved. Wouldn’t a simple passive cooling with correctly place vents facilitating convection within the box would be sufficient to cool batteries. Heating is solved with heating pads.

Not a problem as much as an optimization. There are a number of situations in which the active cooling will be superior. For example, driving on asphalt on a hot summer day in the South, the bottom of the vehicle can get very hot. A bit of cool airflow from the air-conditioned interior would be very good. The same is true while driving in frigid weather in a heated van. Another example is a cold start in weather too cold to use the lithium batteries in the absence of shore power. The pads are all well-and-good, but warming the big batteries would be a long time and a lot of energy, which would have to come from the chassis. By heating the van's interior with the Espar, we have a reservoir of warm air to heat the compartment--either assisting or replacing the pads. It also represents a redundant heating system during frigid weather. Think of it as making the box part of the interior environment of the vehicle, rather than a separate space attached outside.

I would suggest to improve cable routing to eliminate its contact with aluminum bar which can cause short. Vibration can wear off cable insulation.

Thanks for that. Those wires aren't actually quite contacting the bar (looks like one of them was when pic was taken). But, a little extra padding couldn't hurt.

[NAZCamperVan]

Wow. Well thought out. Happy Trails!