Our next rig

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by avanti

Sadly, apparently not. It does have five fan speeds, though. The good part is that it is WiFi-enabled and does diagnostics via a phone app. Seems pretty good from what I can see.

I mentioned that I have gotten interested in some automation solutions. I will post on this topic when I am a little further along, but it appears to be feasible to interface directly with the Espar CANbus and script a custom control system that can do whatever you want, including PCM-controlled fans. Stay tuned on that. I will probably go with the Rixen's controller and save the automation for a post-delivery project.

edit: Even if the CANbus hacking proves too hard, the automation could easily control the furnace by spoofing the signals from the Rixen's controller to the Espar. Could be done in such a way that it could fall back to stock Rixen's behavior.

You could leave Espar as simple on as 160*-180*F and have a blower RPM independantly thermostatically controlled. Perhaps this is what you just wrote.

[ks@yvr]

Congratulations on your new build. The fun begins.

We are fully electric and gasoline Webasto heater in our new van. We do carry a small single high btu burner propane stove that works fine on picnic tables or under the awning for outside cooking of foods we don’t want inside our B. Works fine with refillable 1 lb canisters (we carry 3, probably 2 would be fine). Our system has worked fine for up to 6 weeks traveling and only once did our batteries run down below 15% when we boondocked in the same spot for 5 days not moving. We live with 200 ah of lithium batteries. 300 ah would be a nice to have but this year we only would have needed that one time. Problem is solved by running the engine stationary for about an hour to bring batteries up to a little more than 80%. Generally we only spend 2-3 days somewhere and anytime we drive somewhere our lithium batteries are fully charged by the time we stop for the night. We don’t have solar but I did prewire should i change my mind at a later date; I currently have a Thule rack on the roof for water toy storage etc.

[Davydd]

Avanti,

I went to the Ford Transit ordering site and found it vague and confusing. Where do you obtain dimensional drawings for the Transit? I'm asking because George Mauro of Humble Road said the width from window glass to window glass was 75" and then he showed a cardboard mockup of the aisle width of only 23" in his Transit plan video way shorter than your present GWvan. Also, it appeared that window glass to horizontal framing seemed to be about 3-4" which means the floor would be less than 70" of which the Sprinter is.

Inches are precious and make a big difference. It was a fight to get it right in my van. I could have desired just one more inch in many areas in my design.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by Davydd

Avanti,

I went to the Ford Transit ordering site and found it vague and confusing. Where do you obtain dimensional drawings for the Transit?

Yes, it is a problem.

I know of two useful sources:

1) The equivalent of the Sprinter Bodybuilder's Manuals is called the Body and Equipment and Mounting Manual (BEMM).

The general BEMM is available here:
https://madocumentupload.marketingas...d2af9&v5=False

but most of the dimensional data are in this:

https://madocumentupload.marketingas...84cc6&v5=False

You will find a lot of numbers here, but as usual, you often will not find the ones you need.


The other source, sadly, is a set of YouTube videos by a VanLife couple. Here is the main one (there are others):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqRYt2cWTdI

It is depressing, but I got the best data from them. Tedious, though.


There are also dimensions on the Sportsmobile website, but they are of questionable accuracy.

You can find lots more on the Transit forum, but the above ones seem to be the best.

Sorry.

[Davydd]

Thank you for this information. I can see where the info is tedious to extract. I built my Sprinter drawings in SketchUp 3D and MacDraft 2D from measuring the actual empty van at ARV and from 2D drawings from MB. ARV has their 3D CAD drawings I think in Solidworks that I didn’t use.

It confirms what Humble Road said. The Transit is wider than the Sprinter out to out but the more complex interior structure isn’t with a 69” width vs Sprinter 70” at the floor and up to the beam under the windows. That’s what I gleaned and as I said I probably could have used just another inch. So, I couldn’t duplicate my design any better with a Transit.

The other thing George Mauro mentioned is he couldn’t turn the cab seats around without opening the doors. I don’t have to open the doors in the Sprinter to do that. We have power seats with three pre-programmed settings for me, my wife and no-guessing position for turning around. We have to manually turn them but we can with the doors closed and locked. I see that as inclement weather and security concerns if we had to get up and go. With our short van design it is necessary to utilize turned around cab seats or we wouldn’t have anywhere to sit inside.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by Davydd

The other thing George Mauro mentioned is he couldn’t turn the cab seats around without opening the doors.

That is apparently true with the OEM swivels (although reports vary, so it probably depends on how much you are willing to fiddle). However, there are several third-party swivels available which are superior in this regard.

Also, Ford does not sell swivels in combination with power seats. I ordered power, and will use third-party swivels, which is what lots of people do.

[ks@yvr]

I saw George’s mention that he couldn’t turn the seats with the doors closed. I don’t known why it was his experience but I can turn my seats with the doors closed. I do have to slide the seat forward first then rotate the seat and after turning the seat slide it back. I had to do the same in my PW Sprinter and my VW Westfalia.

Happy travels,

[Davydd]

George Mauro hedged a bit on whether he could swivel the seats with the door closed. Maybe he didn’t know how to, but mentioning it in a video sticks for all time.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by ks@yvr

I do have to slide the seat forward first then rotate the seat and after turning the seat slide it back. I had to do the same in my PW Sprinter and my VW Westfalia.

That is how our MY2014 Sprinter works as well.

[BillsPaseo]

Maybe it is a model year difference. Older Transits only swivel on the passenger side, because the parking brake interferes with swiveling the driver side seat. But 2020 and newer are available with swivel seats on both sides. On my 2017, I have to open the door to swivel the passenger seat.

My solution to that was to disconnect the sensor for the alarm that goes off if you try to drive the van with the seat swiveled. I don't ever plan to drive that way, but in a situation where I'm concerned about security, I have the option to move to a safer location and then swivel it. If I ever go to sell it, all I have to do is plug the sensor back in...

[BillsPaseo]

Also, on mine the issue isn't with the seat hitting the door, it is the bracket the seat is mounted to that hits the door. That stays stationary when you slide the seat forward, so sliding it forward does not help.

[avanti]

I've been busy working on the automation project for the new van--will report on that soon. In the mean time, we have made a decision on the basic floor plan. As I said, we were on the fence between an incremental refinement of our current layout and a completely different one.

Here is the "completely different one":

transit1a.jpg

transit1b.jpg

transit1c.jpg

transit1d.jpg

As you see, this is a rear-bath, front bed design. The main innovations are (a) the quarter-circle tambour door for the bath which avoids having the closet in the bath, and (b) a front bed that supports a full queen while still having crash-safe front-facing seats, rather than the usual sideways dual-sofa design.

We really like the wide-open front, the roomy, functional bath, and large fold-down TV in the front (can't do that in the back because I am tall). Also, the shelves at the very rear slide over behind the toilet area, permitting a rear view while driving. Disadvantages include having to crawl out the "head" side of the bed (been there), small galley, and a very complex custom bed mechanism.

In the end, we wimped out and decided to go with the devil we know. That is the topic of my next post.

[avanti]

So, the winner is an incremental refinement of the standard Great West Vans center bath, rear bed design.

transit2 12-6-21 A.jpg

transit2 12-6-21 C.jpg

transit2 12-6-21 D.jpg

transit2 12-6-21 G.jpg

transit2 12-6-21 H.jpg

The biggest innovations here are:

(a) evolving the Great West tri-fold bed into a split design that can be used in three modes: (1) reclining seats; (2) twin beds; and (c) queen bed, all while retaining the clear-span "don't touch the floor" feature of the original.

(b) The pop-up "flag-style" TV. TV placement has always been the Achilles heel of this floorplan. Our van came with the TV mounted above the galley, which blocked the windows. I immediately tore that out are replaced it with a set that hung like a picture frame only when we were using it. Other upfitters stick the TV awkwardly behind the rear drivers-side cabinet, where it doesn't really fit. This design will pop up from behind the galley drawers using a linear actuator strong enough to support the set from one side. I have not seen this done, and am kind of proud of it.

There will be other changes--this model is just a rough sketch, but this is the direction that we are going in. Comments/suggestions enthusiastically encouraged.

[GeorgeRa]

In case you would be asking for comments. I agree that incremental improvement from positive experience is the right way to go. We did that coming from 2 Westfalia layouts.
1. I like openness of the front section in the first design concept
2. But don’t like blocked rear window.
3. Microwave is a little high.
4. Have you considered projection in lieu of LCD. TI’s DMD image engine with LED (RGB) are energy efficient.
5. Accuride has TV lifter, no flag https://www.accuride.com/en-us/produ...chanical-lifts
6. You could consider semi-automatic deployment of bedding, we have 2” thick mattress topper rolled and tacked behind the rear panel.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by GeorgeRa

In case you would be asking for comments. I agree that incremental improvement from positive experience is the right way to go. We did that coming from 2 Westfalia layouts.
1. I like openness of the front section in the first design concept

Yes. Our first rig (First gen Airstream Interstate) had basically that configuration. We really miss the openness. We don't miss the scissors-style fold down beds. The current design moves most of the openness to be rear, but it isn't quite as good.

2. But don’t like blocked rear window.

Well, it wasn't really blocked. The rear of the van was divided into three parts: A fixed outward-facing shelf unit on the passenger's side; (b) an open center; and (c) a sliding inward-facing shelf on the driver's side. So, with the tambour door open and the shelf slid away, the rear would be mostly open.

3. Microwave is a little high.

Yeah, but it is the same in our Current rig and we are used to it.

4. Have you considered projection in lieu of LCD. TI’s DMD image engine with LED (RGB) are energy efficient.

Yes we did, but we couldn't make it work. We really don't want to obstruct the ceiling.

5. Accuride has TV lifter, no flag https://www.accuride.com/en-us/produ...chanical-lifts

We searched everywhere for a flag-style mechanism, which is key for this situation. Basically doesn't seem to exist. But I have a design for a mechanism which will work. I am building it now. Will post when done.

6. You could consider semi-automatic deployment of bedding, we have 2” thick mattress topper rolled and tacked behind the rear panel.

Yes. The two reclining seats will have actuators. The flip-over arm-rest in the center is manual. It also retains the GWV feature that permits the whole bed assembly to slide forward, opening up a huge area in the back. In our current rig, that is powered. But we rarely use it, so we will make it manual this time.

Thanks for the feedback.

[GeorgeRa]

You could consider using 8020 profiles, sliders, and pivots to assemble a flag like TV lift. Pay attention to some pivots, some come with higher tolerance busings. A single actuator would suffice. This would be my choice, get it cut by 8020 folks and assemble it like a Lego. https://8020.net/gallery.

See the door hinges for my cassette toilette, overkill but I had these pivots on hand.

[Davydd]

Your rear bath model requires a cassette type toilet, a composting type toilet or a marine macerating toilet. The regular Dometic dump right over the black tank would require a separate black tank which may be problematic and can’t get over the back axle to combine with a dump valve macerating or 3” slinky with the grey tank. You desired a combined B & G tank anyway.

Macerating toilets use more water but traveling 5,000 miles this January and having to haul and dump composting or cassettes in below freezing weather frequently I would dread. With big waste tanks of 51 gallons we haven’t needed to dump yet on the road. In cold weather we have been more conserving.

[Davydd]

I think George is right. The microwave should not be that high. You have a chance to rectify past vans. The freezer can be lowered especially if you considered a drawer type freezer. Then the more frequently used refrigerator will also be at a more practical height. Then you can install a continuous upper cabinet. The upper cabinet height also is where the curvature of the shell is most in the way. Have you measured to see if a microwave is practical at the upper shelf height?

[avanti]

Originally Posted by Davydd

Your rear bath model requires a cassette type toilet, a composting type toilet or a marine macerating toilet.

Yes. It would have been a macerating toilet like yours.
I was considering using one anyway in the center-bath design, just for the sake of robustness in tank fluid behavior. But, your warning about extra water use has given me pause. I am thinking that water parsimony and the cost savings are worth more than the minor advantage of in-tank sewage slurry. I will of course still have a dump macerator.

[jrobe]

There are certainly RV's with rear baths that don't require cassette toilets or macerating toilets (not that there is anything wrong with macerating toilets). One could certainly move the spare tire to the back and have a pretty big rear black tank. You can also elevate the toilet 6" on a platform and have a fairly big black tank within the heated van space which has advantages. It is fun trying to fit the puzzle pieces together on a custom build.