Opinions on towing a travel trailer with a truck? Thanks.

[markopolo]

Yes, I could do that.
A category for the "Class B truck owning trailer towing" folks.

But, you'll have to buy a Class B Trailer.

Basically it is:
1. less than 80' long
2. only one storey in height
3. can't have more than 6 bedrooms

that's it..........

[Hallibagger]

Over the years I have towed a variety of trailers with different vehicles. I currently own a Class B.

My last trailer, which I got rid off last year, was a fifth wheel, 38 ft long trailer, which we towed with a Ford 3/4 ton diesel pickup. This was the easiest trailer to tow and the most challenging to park. However the newer campgrounds have much easier access nowadays.

I have been "On the Road" in Canada since 1957.

For the past 20 years we have wintered in Florida and we have stayed at a variety of campgrounds. If I had to do it again I would purchase a trailer locally in the States and keep it there. I would drive down each winter in a car, or, if the distance was considerable I would fly down and purchase a car down there. If I needed to move the trailer I would use one of the many towing services to do that.

I rarely used the truck in Canada and it's sole purpose was to tow the trailer. We rarely used our trailer in Canada as we live on the shore of Lake Ontario. We eventually left our trailer in Florida permanently and drove down each year in a car.

Used trailers are readily available in the Snowbird areas and I think new trailers are cheaper than in Canada. In fact in Florida now you can by a decent condo or even a house for what a new fair sized trailer costs. We stayed on the '6 and 6' rate deal where you are allowed to stay in the vehicle for 6 months and you get 6 months storage on your pad. Being Florida we tied it down with Hurricane straps and it survived Hurricane Charlie without damage.

As Mike mentioned, the weight of new large trailers is creeping up, with the addition of up to 4 slides and everyone seems to be ignoring the fact the gross combination weight is climbing to beyond the limit of the G licence. I dread to think what might happen should an accident occur and it was discovered that your combination exceeded the limit of your licence! You know how those lawyers love to sue down there. It is doubtful that your Canadian Insurers would be able to help you out too much.

Another addition to the GCVW is the consideration that some 5th Wheel combinations can now be seen towing a boat or a trailer or a car!

[Mike]

Hi Deryck,
Thanks for chipping in with some anecdotal comments and wisdom. it's all good.
We're thinking something between 19' and 24' maximum length. Probably won't exceed 5,000-6,000 lbs.
in total weight, and using the 10%-15% tongue weight rule, 500 to 750 lb. down force on the hitch, which are both within the limits of the truck we got. I expect our trailer weight will be closer to 5,000 lbs.
Tell me more about hurricane straps. It's one of the "what if" situations we discussed regarding TT life.
The B weighs about 9,000 lbs. and it feels a windy day/night. I expect these trailers are even more
susceptible to windy conditions, at lower overall weights.

Much of this idea came from a desire to winter in the sunnier/warmer south, and the "leave it in storage" somewhere in the US while we are north for summer, was one thing we looked at. We've also considered buying a small house in AZ or UT (prices are still incredibly low in many areas), and what we've come up with now, namely pulling the trailer with us, and pulling it home in the summer. I think the sun damage if the trailer was left south over their summer would be pretty nasty, so that was a consideration, too.
We may find that towing it back and forth isn't worth the effort, and try to find some way to store it
and protect it from wind, weather, and pests while we're up here, but I don't think that's possible.
So if we do find something workable, and switch from calls B to TT, we'll have to see how it plays out
over time. There are always alternatives, always options.

Anyone using Passport America to get the 50% off camping deals? We're looking at that, too. We've
been keeping our costs down by getting the America the Beautiful NPS pass every year because it's
good at places we like, and they are usually $12-$18 night for no hookups, but access to communal
bathrooms and showers that are inexpensive. We won't ave to use them anymore though, if we go TT.

[Hallibagger]

Hi Mike,
Our 5th wheel was about 8,000 lbs. The truck was able to handle it with no problems. It was a delight to drive. The pivot point on a 'fiver' is roughly on top of the rear axle instead of about 5ft behind it, so passing vehicle sway was virtually eliminated. Now as I understand it you are talking about a trailer, not a 'fiver' - correct? I did not enjoy towing our 24ft trailer as much as the fifth wheel.

Sure, you can claim that there is more usable space in a trailer, as the space in a 'fiver' over the truck body is usually lower, we found it to be just fine for a bedroom.

I think a 24-30ft trailer with a couple of slides would be lovely, the slides make such a difference to the interior space. Unfortunately they add significant weight!

As to the hurricane straps, Park models seem to come with Hurricane straps built into the design. The straps run right over the top of the trailer in several locations, inside the finished trims and you have to turn big corkscrew anchors into the ground alongside the trailer to which to anchor the ends of the straps.

In our case we had to slip the straps over the trailer chassis and anchor them at 6 different locations with the 9" diameter 4 foot long corkscrews. That is not as effective as running them over the top but it did work out OK, we were about 3 I/2 miles from the centre of "Charlie". We had set our fiver up on concrete blocks to remove as much sway as possible. It did blow it off the blocks at one end.

I would seriously check the prices for some used trailers in the Snowbird areas as they seemed really cheap to us and I was somewhat annoyed how much we had paid for our 'fiver' in Canada.

You are right, after some 20 years in the Florida sun our trim decals had become bleached and brittle and were peeling off. I guess the secret is to buy a Florida or Southern US built trailer! Alternatively change your trailer every 10 years or so. Think how much diesel/gas you will save!

If you elect to leave your trailer in the States you have to re-register it in the State where you leave it. It is either buy a new sticker each year or pay tax on it as a residence. That was a no-brainer as the Florida annual fee was only $30 for a travel trailer/fiver.

Hey Mike - It is a bit late to be leaving for the South or are you already down there?

Deryck

[Mike]

Originally Posted by Hallibagger

Hi Mike,
Our 5th wheel was about 8,000 lbs. The truck was able to handle it with no problems. It was a delight to drive. The pivot point on a 'fiver' is roughly on top of the rear axle instead of about 5ft behind it, so passing vehicle sway was virtually eliminated. Now as I understand it you are talking about a trailer, not a 'fiver' - correct? I did not enjoy towing our 24ft trailer as much as the fifth wheel.

Sure, you can claim that there is more usable space in a trailer, as the space in a 'fiver' over the truck body is usually lower, we found it to be just fine for a bedroom.

I think a 24-30ft trailer with a couple of slides would be lovely, the slides make such a difference to the interior space. Unfortunately they add significant weight!

We're looking for something between 20-24 feet long and not more than 6,000lbs. loaded. The truck is rated at 9300lbs. and is factory tow package equipped, but I think we can find something lighter and easier to pull. I wouldn't think maxing out our load rating is a good idea, I think I'd prefer to have a bit of wiggle room.
The truck has a tonneau cover, so we sort of figured rather than remove a $1200-$1500 hard shell box/bed cover, we'll try a travel trailer first. I understand the fivers are an easier tow for the reasons you mention, but I'm trying to keep our overall mods to a minimum. Fivers are a bit more expensive too, no? And probably better built as I've read, but we'll probably try a TT for now.

Originally Posted by Hallibagger

As to the hurricane straps, Park models seem to come with Hurricane straps built into the design. The straps run right over the top of the trailer in several locations, inside the finished trims and you have to turn big corkscrew anchors into the ground alongside the trailer to which to anchor the ends of the straps.

In our case we had to slip the straps over the trailer chassis and anchor them at 6 different locations with the 9" diameter 4 foot long corkscrews. That is not as effective as running them over the top but it did work out OK, we were about 3 I/2 miles from the centre of "Charlie". We had set our fiver up on concrete blocks to remove as much sway as possible. It did blow it off the blocks at one end.

I'm almost sure I've seen them slung over the top of park models, and I think my aunt's had them when
they bought a park model in Port St. Lucie back in the '80s.

Originally Posted by Hallibagger

I would seriously check the prices for some used trailers in the Snowbird areas as they seemed really cheap to us and I was somewhat annoyed how much we had paid for our 'fiver' in Canada.

I'm looking at several US based websites that advertise making importation to Canada a no brainer. RV Wholesalers in Ohio have a page devoted to Canadians buying in the US. If the price savings are really
substantial we may buy in the US.

Originally Posted by Hallibagger

You are right, after some 20 years in the Florida sun our trim decals had become bleached and brittle and were peeling off. I guess the secret is to buy a Florida or Southern US built trailer! Alternatively change your trailer every 10 years or so. Think how much diesel/gas you will save!

If you elect to leave your trailer in the States you have to re-register it in the State where you leave it. It is either buy a new sticker each year or pay tax on it as a residence. That was a no-brainer as the Florida annual fee was only $30 for a travel trailer/fiver.

Hey Mike - It is a bit late to be leaving for the South or are you already down there?

Deryck

I'd like to have one parked in the US somewhere for longer periods, but still be able to move if the mood strikes or the "neighbourhood" starts to go downhill. We're at the point where we want to extend our stays. Our issue with that is our cats, who just don't fit well in a Roadtrek, and cost a fortune for cat sitting, but to take them with us, we need a bigger rig. So we thought, what about a trailer and truck combo? Park the TT, and if we need to explore and pick up supplies, do that with the TV.
We were out west again, last October, and haven't been out since for any number of annoyances. We
may head to South Carolina for a week in March, but nothing planned yet this year. Maybe if we get
the new RV situation settled. It's still not a done deal. I would have bought the truck one way or the other, travel trailer or not. It's much better than the 2010 Ranger we bought last year.
You in PG? Sun and Shade? Nice area, not sure if we'll get down that way again, but Key West never happened last year, so it's still on the bucket to do list.

[Davydd]

Mike,

Any preferences for trailers? I once had a vintage 1972 Airstream 24 ft. long. I have an affinity for them mainly because of the design. I just quickly learned trailers were just not my style of RV travel darting about and staying a night or two at most and in wilderness areas. That, and I was terrible at backing up. Just never got the hang of it.

If I were shopping for a trailer today, this one gets my attention, again mainly because of design. The Earthbound. I can't help it being an architect and dwelling on such.

http://www.earthboundrv.com/

[booster]

If you want light and easy towing, you might want to look at Trailmanor. It is probably what we would have, if we hadn't gone with the Roadtrek.

http://www.trailmanor.com/

[Mike]

Originally Posted by Davydd

Mike,

Any preferences for trailers? I once had a vintage 1972 Airstream 24 ft. long. I have an affinity for them mainly because of the design. I just quickly learned trailers were just not my style of RV travel darting about and staying a night or two at most and in wilderness areas. That, and I was terrible at backing up. Just never got the hang of it.

If I were shopping for a trailer today, this one gets my attention, again mainly because of design. The Earthbound. I can't help it being an architect and dwelling on such.

http://www.earthboundrv.com/

I have always loved the look of the Airstream trailers. They remind me of older classic propeller driven aircraft, and I've always admired them. Shaped like a baguette, and probably just as aerodynamic and airworthy. Pricey though, aren't they? Probably well over $1000/ft.?
So far we've looked mostly at medium length trailers with better insulation and enclosed underbellies.
The more options, the better. There is supposed to be an advantage with an enclosed underbelly in
towing, in drag reduction. Some also suggest (arguably) that the plumbing and other systems below the
floor are more protected from weather and damage. The cons are they house vermin better.
We have looked at the Spree LX models by KZ, and also like the layouts of the Kokanee and Koala brands, but I'm leaning towards the Spree models, that are really well equipped out of the box. All of these in 19' to 23' fit the bill for price, weight, space, and features.
I'll have a look at the link.
Thanks.

[Mike]

Originally Posted by booster

If you want light and easy towing, you might want to look at Trailmanor. It is probably what we would have, if we hadn't gone with the Roadtrek.

http://www.trailmanor.com/

TY sir.
Will have a browse.

[renrut]

There are all different kinds of trailers available now and the weight has come down a lot. We looked at a 21ft trailer that weighed 3500Lbs but when we put my truck in front of it, wow, my truck was small. If you find a trailer, see if the dealer will allow you to put your truck in front of it just to see how they look. It saved me buying something that was too big for my truck.

We looked around and ended up with a hybrid. It's only a 17ft trailer (tongue to rear bumper) and weighs a maximum of 3500Lbs but it fit my family's needs. It has a full walk in bathroom with shower, toilet and sink. It has the standard dinette which folds down to a bed, has a sofa which also folds into a small bed and both end bunks are full queen sized beds. With a family of 5 and possible kid's friends, this was a nice trailer for us. It sleeps 6 adults and 2 children and is light enough for a standard van. My truck is rated for a 5200Lb trailer so I have no problems.

We took it from Southern Ontario to Winnipeg last year and it was quite nice too pull except for the wind drag. I've bought a wind deflector for the roof of my truck that will deflect the wind over the trailer. Half to see how much a difference it makes this summer.

[Mike]

Hey that looks like a good setup.
So, you don't have to fold out the canvas end parts, you can use it as a short (15' inside space?)
solid walled trailer? Not a bad looking trailer. I think maybe we saw some like it, but I'm not
sure the co-pilot wants to deal with folding parts. She's not sold on slides yet, either.

Does it have room for a litter box, and plenty of carpet for cats to sharpen their claws on?
We must have those things, too.

It will have to be a pretty big trailer to make our truck look small.
Besides similar sized F250s/350s, it's the biggest 2009 pickup truck they (157" wheelbase) made that year.
Takes me 10 minutes to walk from the driver's door to the tailgate.

[renrut]

The bunks are actually very easy to set up. When I was a kid, we had a pop-up trailer. We had to crank it up, put the bunk support rods in, pull the bunks out, zip zippers, use bungee cords to hold the canvas, and it was a bit of a chore to get the canvas pushed up over the bunks. This new trailer has 2 latches for each bunk. Open the latches and pull the bunk down, go inside and push the vinyl over the bunk out and snap the pole in place. I can have this set up in a minute or 2.

There's no carpet in ours. Just vinyl flooring. Because of the weight restrictions, we can't put too much supplies in it. Dual axle units have more weight for storage. I put enough food, cloths, chairs and general stuff for my 3 kids and I. My wife stayed home last summer for some quiet time. It can be used without pulling the bunks out but it makes it so much bigger with the bunks out.

My truck is a small one and I think any trailer would make it look small. It's a Ford Explorer Sport Trac. Basically, an Explorer front body with a pickup back put on a Ranger frame. Even though it has a 4 litre 6 cylinder, it has a lot of pulling power. Had no problems going through Northern Ontario but the engine was screaming a bit on the big hills. I read the transmissions are not the best on these but it has a lot to do with people driving in overdrive. Can't do that pulling a trailer. In overdrive, the transmission oil doesn't move quick enough to cool the transmission properly and burns out the tranny.

These trailers are quite popular here. The local RV dealer is selling them before they even get them on the lot. We put out name on one before it was even delivered. Since they were sold out of the 2011, this one is a 2012 model.

Now I need to try to sell my old Class C. Tried to find a wrecker or scrap yard that would take it but no luck. Some would take it but we have to completely strip it down to nothing but metal.

[Mike]

Could you donate your class C using one of the "cash for cars" or "1-800-junk" places? (Is it that bad?)
Some give you some value in a charitable donation and tax receipt, and they pick up the vehicle and
deal with the scrapping part.

[renrut]

Actually Mike, there's not much wrong with it. The dash airconditioner needs to be charged and a possible leak fixed, and there is a little water damage from a leak a couple years ago but it runs and was safetied 3 years ago. I've replaced the roof, re-built the front bunk, replaced all the brake and transmission lines, brakes and master cylinder, engine water pump and a lot more since I bought it. It is a 1977 and we just didn't want to go through the hassle of selling it.

[Mike]

I can relate. I could have probably got more for some vehicles I've had over the years but sometimes
it's better to send it to the recyclers, than to spend money for a marginal gain and the hassle.

[markopolo]

Crunching numbers........
Mike's discussion here got me thinking about maybe getting a trailer for extended stays. Around here, a good used trailer in the 20' range might cost $10,000 and a new trailer would be around $22,000.

This is a little off topic but maybe relevant to some.

I looked at a RV park in northern Florida within walking or cycling distance to the Atlantic coast.
Monthly RV site rental: $600
at the same park you can rent a mini-mobile "cottage". for $1,200 monthly

If you just want to get away for three months each winter then renting might be a good option.
Insurance, licensing, registration, safety inspections & maintenance on the trailer might cost $600 per year.
Take the $1,800 per year difference between the rv site and the cottage rental above and subtract the $600 annual trailer costs. The difference is $1,200. annualy.

It would take about 8 years of snowbird use to break even on the price of a used trailer and 18 years of snowbird use to break even on the new trailer if you compare that to renting the cottage.
Some of the cottage rentals even accept small pets.

Use the Class B to drive to the winter rental cottage each year and for short trips while there and also for other trips throughout the year.
They key is to be able to find rental cottages in enough areas to keep it interesting.

Any thoughts?

[AZ ADVenturist]

Marko wrote:
"Use the Class B to drive to the winter rental cottage each year and for short trips while there and also for other trips throughout the year.
They key is to be able to find rental cottages in enough areas to keep it interesting."

That's what I would do if I had to still live in the snow-belt of Western Montana (a nice place to visit - BUT...)
It is all about "Cost vs. Benefit Analysis" ! And Cold is to great a Cost with very little Benefit.
Ric.

[Mike]

Originally Posted by markopolo

Crunching numbers........Mike's discussion here got me thinking about maybe getting a trailer for extended stays. Around here, a good used trailer in the 20' range might cost $10,000 and a new trailer would be around $22,000.

This is a little off topic but maybe relevant to some.

Use the Class B to drive to the winter rental cottage each year and for short trips while there and also for other trips throughout the year.
They key is to be able to find rental cottages in enough areas to keep it interesting.

Any thoughts?

A new trailer purchased in the lower 48 costs a bit less than $20,000. In fact we're looking at some
possibles at RV Wholesalers in Ohio, and they have some in the 20' range for around $15,000 plus any
tax and additional optional equipment (my cousin added a power hitch and weight distribution hitch assembly that bumped his total price to around US$16,000. The import process is fairly simple, and
owning a trailer that can be moved by either a truck or class B, gives you the option of moving when
the local scenery (including neighbours?) gets boring.
We're (now) even thinking of using a slightly larger trailer as a full timer option, for a bit.
Also, (please don't laugh) one of the reasons we first chose to buy a class B b-sides the great advantages as a touring unit was, we had control over the cleanliness of the "house". We didn't really relish the idea of sleeping with an endless number of other transient occupants in hotels/motels (or rental accommodations) where we have no idea of the status of the premises from a daily cleaning perspective.
We know what's been in our van/trailer. An, we are responsible for keeping it clean and bug free.

[markopolo]

I've been thinking about the "bug" free aspect. The thought of bed bugs creeps me out.

I sent you an RVDirect Sale flyer Mike (from my Hotmail not classbforum email) It might get flagged as spam. I like those US prices

[booster]

Originally Posted by markopolo

I've been thinking about the "bug" free aspect. The thought of bed bugs creeps me out.

I sent you an RVDirect Sale flyer Mike (from my Hotmail not classbforum email) It might get flagged as spam. I like those US prices

I can't say how they are now, but 3-4 years ago, when we were looking at Roadtreks, RV direct showed them with huge discount percents. Unfortunately, they bumped up the MSRP before taking the discount, so they were actually higher than some other dealers. Once we checked a price with them, they hounded us for years afterward.