Old tech? What the heck!

[Doneworking]

It seems that B manufacturers are in a race for new technology. Many discussions on this forum show a great interest in the latest technology available for Bs. There is a lot of excitement of having non generator power for air conditioning when boondocking, for example.

Truthfully, I prefer the old stuff. Maybe that is because I am kinda old myself or, maybe, it is because I want a traveling, camping, touring experience that is a little more basic.


We have a nice 2013 Class C Phoenix Cruiser 2350 and nice 2007 Roadtrek 210. The PC has 300 watts of solar, a big inverter, dual power water heater, surround sound, two TVs, dual electric recliner/sofa combo etc.

The 2007 Roadtrek has what a 2007 Roadtrek had when tricked out back then including a five cubic foot refrigerator, more storage than most small Cs, a three way refrig, six gallons of good hot water and so on. Plus a big Chevy engine and incredibly comfortable Flexsteel seats up front.

We love our Roadtrek because camping and traveling in it is more than a journey: it is an experience. We don't want a lot of modern conveniences because, for us, that makes it sorta the same as a nice hotel room or even our home.

We would miss a lot of our experience and fun (at least for us) in managing our old tech when we are (most of the time)off grid and we seldom use hookups. We manage to live comfortably without a lot of new tech and comfort gadgets. Heck, I even prefer maps to a GPS. I love the feel and overview of a good state road map and we seldom drive the interstates. There is much to see in the small towns and places with a B.

Now, we are not tech illiterate. I have a pretty reasonable amount of knowledge. I bought my first computer for a business in 1974 and go back to DOS and I am now running Windows 10. We have PCs, IPads, Iphones, GPS, etc. We also have some antiquated things called maps. We simply have no desire to have instant hot water or to have thousand dollar lithium batteries in an RV.

I have no desire for a compressor refrig in a small motorhome and I have done all the maintenance on our rigs for the 36 years we have owned four Bs and three Cs.

For those that want these things, I salute you and hope you have a lot of joy and many miles of happy traveling and enjoying your rigs. I am not knocking you or the incredible technology that is available. I just love the old tried and true, trouble free and proven stuff.

I just wonder: am I the only guy on this forum that feels this way? I am starting to feel a bit lonely

or maybe I remember all those years in a tent!!

Paul

[Johnny R]

Originally Posted by Doneworking

. . . I am starting to feel a bit lonely
Paul

Do not apologize! I'm on your side. I also have an older analog ham transceiver which gives the digital ones a real run for their money.

[Ron J. Moore]

I have been following F/B on the Rodtrek Chevy and Roadtrek/Hymer Groups. I have read the inputs about repeated visit to the Dealers, hard time getting parts, and a myriad of things. There are a few that really level the guns at RT and Hymer for the QA, or lack of it. I can't imagine my anger if I paid the price being paid for these hi-tech vehicles, and it spends more time in a shop than on the road. And like we have heard thru out, that many Dealers are saying you have to wait an extraordinary long time for an appointment...or if they didn't buy it, you will have to wait until they get their own customers serviced. Sure glad I have a Chevy. Ron.

[Bruceper]

Originally Posted by Doneworking

I just wonder: am I the only guy on this forum that feels this way? I am starting to feel a bit lonely

or maybe I remember all those years in a tent!!

Paul

Nope, while I like some modern conveniences, I like old school tech because it's simpler and more available.

My newest vehicle until recently was a 93, and I accidentally bought a 94 from a friend by saying "Hey you know that Jeep you have in my garage?" and his reply was "You mean your Jeep?" and I just went with it.

[BBQ]

.

If you are buying new, you should consider a compressor fridge.
If you already have an RV with a working absorption fridge,
then there is no reason to change.

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by Doneworking

I have no desire for a compressor refrig in a small motorhome and I have done all the maintenance on our rigs for the 36 years we have owned four Bs and three Cs.

I've used both absorption and efficient compressor refrigerators and after using the compressor version I was left wondering what took me so long.

[GeorgeRa]

I agree witt compressor fridge positive comments, painless, no leveling, reliable. My fridge is Isotherm 85l (3 CuFt), sufficient for week long camping, 230Ah AGM, 300W solar, no Onan, shore power, love it.

[angelmroman]

I’m also in the KISS Group .

I recently added 400 Watts of Solar, 448AHs of AGMs and a 2000 Watt Inverter/Charger simply to make my 2005 RT 210P have more “Off-the-Grid” capacity. After Full-timing 3+ years on just two wet cells, this setup is “Pure Luxury” .

[Doneworking]

angelmroman, if I were full timing in a 210P I would do the same thing. My point in the original post was reflecting on the fact that most B owners use their rigs several times a year but don't full time.

I have always carefully maintained my refrigerators and have simply never had a problem with any of them. Given the short wheelbase and narrow width that defines a B, I would level that baby even if I didn't have a refrig. Otherwise, we would be sleeping a bit oddly.

To each his own and our individual needs obviously dictate our individual preferences.

Paul

[InterBlog]

"Sweet spots" are called sweet SPOTS rather than "sweet end member conditions" for a good reason. The optimal position to occupy is usually somewhere on the continuum, and so it is with the continuum between old school and new school technology.

For instance, I was initially convinced that old school was the way to go with a refrigerator. If you'd like to know just how much misery it took to change my mind on that one, you can read that full painful and expensive story here.

That being the case, there are a number of new-school improvements that I believe to be entirely regressive, having been aimed at increasing MSRP rather than increasing overall B van performance. A partial list is as follows:

(1) Macerator - they break too often and are subject to freeze damage. Good old fashioned gravity dump may be archaic to some, but it's extremely difficult to have it fail in any way.

(2) Auto-retract awning - Don't even get me started. Read this, or this, or this, or any one of multiple other threads.

(3) Auto-retract electric step at the slider door - ditto. Just search for it.

(4) New-school in-line hot water heaters tend to only work well if the hot water is run continuously, which is not going to be the case while boondocking or while camping at two-connection sites (water and electricity only). I researched it. The old Atwood dinosaurs arguably work better in such conditions.

(5) Electric window shades - OMG, read this. I have arms and hands attached to my body. I can pull shades down manually with no trouble.

I've made Airstream-related citations above because that's the type of rig I know best, but much the same branded components are used by multiple Class B manufacturers.

There are other components I could add to the list, but you get the idea. My husband and I have the newest-possible-school electrical system in our rig, but we intentionally retain much of the original old-school equipment for its superior reliability.

[gerrym51]

In my opinion-and this is just an opinion-it's always about money OR the thought of wasting money even when you have it.

I have a 2015 zion with agm. I am thinking about a travato 59kl with its super battery.

the wife and i can easily afford the upgrade difference. And know we have a better idea what we want-at least she does.

However just thinking about how many years i would get out of it at our age causes a pause.

Just an opinion

[BBQ]

.

Most of the things in life are emotional-purchases (incl RV).

If every one of us is an accountant, life would be boring.
We would amortize every purchase
and ended up not buying most of the stuff
and the economy would go dead.

Lithium upgrade is a good example.
If we amortize the cost over every piece of toast we make or coffee we drink,
we would be shocked, dismayed, appalled, and horrified by the price.
But damn that hi-tech new toy is fun, and I must have it.

[gerrym51]

Originally Posted by BBQ

.

Most of the things in life are emotional-purchases (incl RV).

If every one of us is an accountant, life would be boring.
We would amortize every purchase
and ended up not buying most of the stuff
and the economy would go dead.

Lithium upgrade is a good example.
If we amortize the cost over every piece of toast we make or coffee we drink,
we would be shocked, dismayed, appalled, and horrified by the price.
But damn that hi-tech new toy is fun, and I must have it.

surprisingly enough it's not JUST the lithium battery. It's the 59kl floorplan and NO Onan. My wife did camping in the past-before me. She kept thinking of her past-when we got the zion. she makes complaints about now that the younger her wouldn't contemplate. Also both of our cats who we found out hated car/van travel have died in the last 6 months. they were both over 16 years old . They both exhibited end of life symptoms before we put them down. We are not ogres=lol. When we get another cat-which we will-we will make sure it has no travel issues and the 59k floorplan will make that easier also

[Doneworking]

The great thing about Class B camper vans today is that there are so many choices.

It hasn't been that long ago that the choices were fewer and options were scant. Today, more of us can enjoy a small motorhome and find the model that best accommodates our individual needs. One size, one package fits all is a thing of the past. Technology is a good thing and we can take it or leave it depending on our personal needs. We all can be accommodated because of all the models, options, manufacturers that are now participating in the market place.
It has taken ten years from the 2008 debacle, the aging of the Boomers and very low financing rates to provide us all of those choices.

Paul

[mlts22]

Over the years, I am in the KISS group myself. I don't like items like multiplexed wiring, because it is convenient, but if I have to replace the A/C with a different brand, I likely lose the ability to control the A/C through that. Similar with furnaces and water heaters.

On the other hand, there are some appliances which are must haves and more useful overall. The Truma Combi water heater/furnace comes to mind, just because it adds more space to the van by having one less appliance, and can run on electric or gas. In the past, absorption fridges that you manually lit were in this category, but with all new fridges requiring 12 volts for their control board, might as well go with two AGM batteries, 300+ watts of solar. At least with a solid electrical system, if/when the fridge dies, it isn't too tough to replace, and there are some brands of electric fridges (Truckfridge) which have a reputation for sterling reliability.

Van-wise, the Euro vans have been around a while in Europe, so seem to be pretty solid. The ProMaster especially, since the Ducato has been that style for a number of years. The Transit has also been a solid performer as well. I like the Transit since I can get a dual alternator kit for it, and the second alternator would be positioned higher than the first, unlike the kits for the ProMaster, so there is no worry about a pothole trashing that. Plus, with a Balmer MC614H regulator, I have the same multi-stage charging as I would with a converter... except with 200 amps straight off the crankshaft.

With alternators becoming the norm for class "B" power, coupled with the latest generation of hard-start capacitors and inverters, so the generator doesn't have to deal with the 60+ locked rotor amps from the A/C's compressor, even what I considered a must have (the Onan genset) could be tossed completely, with a 2200 watt Honda generator for long camping trips. Yes, one would have to have space for the generator, but it means one less hard to service component to worry about. Onan generators are nice, but they are tough to get to on a "B".

Over the years, the biggest thing for me in a van build is modularity. If the A/C goes, I want to be able to replace it without affecting any other components. If the fridge dies, it can be replaced by a similar or even a different model. This way, I am not reliant on magic pixie dust only available from a dealer, and if worse comes to worst, I can fix subsystems by myself.

[GeorgeRa]

A key attribute driving my DIY design was reliability, especially in a motorhome without an extra vehicle in case of troubles in the boonies. Keeping our design simple using reasonably common appliances will increase reliance on self-repairs or at least closeness to repair know how folks. The decision to use water and space diesel heating was my venture to not commonly use appliances but I know how to fix them, they are simple, and there are many trucking places with repair capability and parts inventory.

A few days ago, we camp near Bandon OR, I had the Fiamma awning out, wind picked up so decided to close it. The cranking force required to close felt higher than usual and I noticed a tree cone has landed inside the cranking mechanism. With the neighbor help we removed a cone and realized that higher cranking force was due to my new and smaller crank; but get stuck black scenarios were flowing through my head, and this was just an awning.

[mumkin]

My wading into the high tech with being one of the first people with the lithiums from Roadtrek... which never worked... successfully pushed me back to the tried and true. My options for a new rig are very small since I need to be under 20' which leaves me with only Roadtrek/Hymer.

My order for a new rig is for the last Roadtrek with all the good old dependable stuff... Suburban furnace and water heater... no power steps... unpainted bumpers. That is the Simplicity SRT. I definitely love the ease of compressor fridges (and 5 cf )because I find leveling a total PIA. If I don't fall out of bed, it is good. It comes with both a macerator and gravity dump, so you have the ease of the macerator with the gravity for backup.

Between the dealer and Roadtrek we are updating with what simplifies my life. We are adding 270w solar panel, upgrading the battery and adding a second. And what with my hatred and loathing of Onan generators, the underhood generator.

And this year the Simplicity is on the same chassis as the Zion, so it has the u-connect, steering wheel controls, and back-up sensors which weren't on the Simplicity in the past.

I think this gives me the perfect combination of old and new tech.

[gerrym51]

Originally Posted by mlts22

Over the years, I am in the KISS group myself. I don't like items like multiplexed wiring, because it is convenient, but if I have to replace the A/C with a different brand, I likely lose the ability to control the A/C through that. Similar with furnaces and water heaters.

On the other hand, there are some appliances which are must haves and more useful overall. The Truma Combi water heater/furnace comes to mind, just because it adds more space to the van by having one less appliance, and can run on electric or gas. In the past, absorption fridges that you manually lit were in this category, but with all new fridges requiring 12 volts for their control board, might as well go with two AGM batteries, 300+ watts of solar. At least with a solid electrical system, if/when the fridge dies, it isn't too tough to replace, and there are some brands of electric fridges (Truckfridge) which have a reputation for sterling reliability.

Van-wise, the Euro vans have been around a while in Europe, so seem to be pretty solid. The ProMaster especially, since the Ducato has been that style for a number of years. The Transit has also been a solid performer as well. I like the Transit since I can get a dual alternator kit for it, and the second alternator would be positioned higher than the first, unlike the kits for the ProMaster, so there is no worry about a pothole trashing that. Plus, with a Balmer MC614H regulator, I have the same multi-stage charging as I would with a converter... except with 200 amps straight off the crankshaft.

With alternators becoming the norm for class "B" power, coupled with the latest generation of hard-start capacitors and inverters, so the generator doesn't have to deal with the 60+ locked rotor amps from the A/C's compressor, even what I considered a must have (the Onan genset) could be tossed completely, with a 2200 watt Honda generator for long camping trips. Yes, one would have to have space for the generator, but it means one less hard to service component to worry about. Onan generators are nice, but they are tough to get to on a "B".

Over the years, the biggest thing for me in a van build is modularity. If the A/C goes, I want to be able to replace it without affecting any other components. If the fridge dies, it can be replaced by a similar or even a different model. This way, I am not reliant on magic pixie dust only available from a dealer, and if worse comes to worst, I can fix subsystems by myself.

mlts22- i have been reading your posts on several sites for several years. Have you ever bought a b in this time?.. I seem to be understanding your posts as a no

[mlts22]

Originally Posted by gerrym51

mlts22- i have been reading your posts on several sites for several years. Have you ever bought a b in this time?.. I seem to be understanding your posts as a no

Unfortunately, due to job stuff and life, I've not been able to get one yet. What put a crimp on things was a place I was working at, that failed to make payroll for several months in a row (and I eventually just walked off the job), where I had to use my class "B" deposit fund to keep my mortgage going. Otherwise, I would definitely have a whole saga on the build here and YouTube by now.

I know it has been a while, but I don't want to risk going overboard financially, so am looking to have at least a good chunk ready as a down payment, so if something does happen (I work in the IT sector, where oftentimes you get your "notice" that you were laid off when your badge doesn't work in the door), I can be out from under it quickly.

Good news is that I'm out of the private sector... I earn less, but at least I will have some warning of layoffs ahead of time. It may be a year or two before I have enough to confidently spring for a "B" with a down payment that is large enough to cover depreciation, but that's life, and I don't want to hurry things.

[gerrym51]

Originally Posted by mlts22

Unfortunately, due to job stuff and life, I've not been able to get one yet. What put a crimp on things was a place I was working at, that failed to make payroll for several months in a row (and I eventually just walked off the job), where I had to use my class "B" deposit fund to keep my mortgage going. Otherwise, I would definitely have a whole saga on the build here and YouTube by now.

I know it has been a while, but I don't want to risk going overboard financially, so am looking to have at least a good chunk ready as a down payment, so if something does happen (I work in the IT sector, where oftentimes you get your "notice" that you were laid off when your badge doesn't work in the door), I can be out from under it quickly.

Good news is that I'm out of the private sector... I earn less, but at least I will have some warning of layoffs ahead of time. It may be a year or two before I have enough to confidently spring for a "B" with a down payment that is large enough to cover depreciation, but that's life, and I don't want to hurry things.

wern't you l looking at sportsmobiles once?