Nova Kool R4500 in Roadtrek Chevy 190

[rauscs]

There are a lot of threads regarding replacement of the 3-way fridge with a compressor unit, but I couldn't find one that discusses putting in the NovaKool R4500 unit in a 190 specifically. Looks like it should fit, but I don't want to find a problem half way through the install.

I'm still on the fence between the R3800 and the R4500. R3800 is specified to use half the electricity as the R4500, but not sure how the real world consumption compares.

I was planning on starting out with the stock frige and later adding the isotherm energy saving kit. If anyone has experience on that mod, please let me know.

Thanks in advance for your help!

[rauscs]

I guess I should add that I am not married to any specific brand/model, but after reading the threads here and comparing specs, I came up with the NovaKool. I'm just looking for a solution that gives me 3.5 CuFt at least, has a freezer, and is frugal on electricity.
Steve

[booster]

Originally Posted by rauscs

I'm still on the fence between the R3800 and the R4500. R3800 is specified to use half the electricity as the R4500, but not sure how the real world consumption compares.

Even if you put aside the real world power us vs actual issues, you are still stuck using specs that don't even mean power.


They rate in "running amps" which is just the amount of amps it is using at an instant point in time while it is running. It is not amp hours of power used but way, way too many people use the terms incorrectly and interchangeably.



Running amps on a Secop compressor frig is determined by where they set the compressor speed while running to get the kind of cooling response they think is right but the power will not be known unless you know the % it runs in X amount of time. Isotherm, for instance will spec how much power they use in 24 hours at very specific operating conditions but most choose not to tell you, probably for competitive reasons.


I would expect a 3800 to use about 40ah per day to as much as 70ah, and a 4500 about 20% more than that, as the volume difference seems to track fairly well with the size ratio. Of course this assumes good ventilation on the back of the frig which is often not easy to do without extra fans on the Novakool units with coils on the back of the frig.

[hbn7hj]

Originally Posted by rauscs

There are a lot of threads regarding replacement of the 3-way fridge with a compressor unit, but I couldn't find one that discusses putting in the NovaKool R4500 unit in a 190 specifically. Looks like it should fit, but I don't want to find a problem half way through the install.

I'm still on the fence between the R3800 and the R4500. R3800 is specified to use half the electricity as the R4500, but not sure how the real world consumption compares.

I was planning on starting out with the stock frige and later adding the isotherm energy saving kit. If anyone has experience on that mod, please let me know.

Thanks in advance for your help!

I’m with you on the question. As I understand it the 4500 is 3” deeper. Will it fit in a Roadtrek Chevy 190? Not much concerned about the power, that I will provide, will the 4500 fit is the important question to me.

Might have to just do it and see. It would be a bummer for it not to fit.

[rauscs]

Hey booster,
Looks like you’re replacing your unit with another isotherm cruise 100. Has that been updated? I considered that, but it looked like it was less energy efficient than the 3800/4500. I could get that and the thermostat kit.

[booster]

Originally Posted by rauscs

Hey booster,
Looks like you’re replacing your unit with another isotherm cruise 100. Has that been updated? I considered that, but it looked like it was less energy efficient than the 3800/4500. I could get that and the thermostat kit.

There are a couple of discussions on the Isotherm replacement and the testing I ran on it with and without the ITC controller.


As I mentioned earlier, you are comparing running amps between the Isotherm and the Novakool and that comparison is pretty much useless for knowing what the average use per day is. All you tell is what the maximum use would be if it ran the compressor for 24 hours straight, and even the it would be wrong because the running amps change with ambient and frig temps.


In the discussions, you will see what the testing showed for 24 hour power use for our new Isotherm. In our real world use while camping we use in the range of about 20 amp hours to as much as 45-50 amp hours. Most of the time we are around 30ah per day. To see what the Novakools use, you need to find the discussions about them on this forum where there is quite a bit information about power use in the real world plus the challenges of getting them vented properly so the run efficiently. IIRC most were saying 40-60ah per day, but I could be off a bit.

[dicktill]

Originally Posted by rauscs

There are a lot of threads regarding replacement of the 3-way fridge with a compressor unit, but I couldn't find one that discusses putting in the NovaKool R4500 unit in a 190 specifically. Looks like it should fit, but I don't want to find a problem half way through the install.

I'm still on the fence between the R3800 and the R4500. R3800 is specified to use half the electricity as the R4500, but not sure how the real world consumption compares.

I was planning on starting out with the stock frige and later adding the isotherm energy saving kit. If anyone has experience on that mod, please let me know.

Thanks in advance for your help!

I replaced the original three-way fridge in my 09/10 Roadtrek 190P with a Novakool 4500. I made a lot of other changes at the same time to the galley, and I'll have to look back and see what I did, and if you can do the swap with a lot less.

I also did a lot of modifications behind the fridge, to insulate the wall and create a chimney. The fridge has performed quite well with no add-on fans, but I don't have intensive data on performance.

[hbn7hj]

Originally Posted by dicktill

I replaced the original three-way fridge in my 09/10 Roadtrek 190P with a Novakool 4500. I made a lot of other changes at the same time to the galley, and I'll have to look back and see what I did, and if you can do the swap with a lot less.

I also did a lot of modifications behind the fridge, to insulate the wall and create a chimney. The fridge has performed quite well with no add-on fans, but I don't have intensive data on performance.

Thanks. So it fits. Just have to pay attention to the venting and the electrical power.

[themexicandoctor]

I detailed my experiences on a thread here somewhere about pulling out my 3 way in a 2004/5 Roadtrek 190 Versatile & replacing it with a Novakool R3800.

Will find the thread & post here soon.

One of the best upgrades I have ever done.

The Customer Service from Novakool was exemplary. Absolutely first class, I even had the Cheif Engineer check in each day as I was discovering issues with my system, NOT the Novakool.

Looked very carefully at the R3800 versus R4500 & went with the smaller unit based on amp draw*.

*Booster & everyone else can explain this better but I know the smaller unit was not a tax on my system & it has performed flawlessly since I worked out, the Bugs I had in my system (see below).

Plus you get another 3 inches of extra venting which may or may not, be critical.

If there is two of you, maybe the 4500 is a better choice but Novakool will be able to guide you as to fitment.

For me, thet BOTH slide in with no adjustments needed but for the R3800, the installer put a piece of half inch plywood underneath.

Either unit will fit, the larger unit is more desirable but I only have 250 watts of Solar on the roof & was willing to deal with the compromise of a smaller unit.

The day I put it in, my electrical system was exposed as faulty due to a loose negative/ground wire buried deep within & under the Chassis.

Because I needed to fix this anyway, I revamped my battery system & removed both from the OEM locations outside the rig & placed them under the bed while going from two 100 amp, 12 volt Lifeline Group 27 AGMs to two 220 amp, 6 volt Lifeline AGMs.

This removed at least 80% of the wire runs in both directions.

I had already replaced the OEM Tripplite Inverter with a Magnum MMS1012 a few months before, which I installed upside down behind the OEM electrical box.

You cannot go wrong with Novakool unless you like rock hard icecream.

[themexicandoctor]

https://www.classbforum.com/forums/f...tml#post116379

You don't need to read this but I do recommend the R3800 over the 4500 if you are going to have limited solar & boondock ALL THE TIME as I do.

I connect to power ONLY once every 4-6 months to equalise my batteries.

And I am now running a CPAP unit.

Rarely am I below 90% in the am.

If you have access to regular shore power & an efficient battery system, definitely go with the 4500 for the extra capacity.

[rauscs]

Thanks to all for the feedback!

themexicandoctor - I appreciate your recap, I've read all of your postings. I don't remember what you wound up doing for ventilation on the R3800.

booster - I wrote my original post before catching up with your comments on your install and the ITC. Pretty startling that the ITC appears to hurt rather than help.

[rauscs]

Hi Dicktill, can you tell me anything more re: ventilation on your 4500?

[themexicandoctor]

Originally Posted by rauscs

Thanks to all for the feedback!

themexicandoctor - I appreciate your recap, I've read all of your postings. I don't remember what you wound up doing for ventilation on the R3800.

booster - I wrote my original post before catching up with your comments on your install and the ITC. Pretty startling that the ITC appears to hurt rather than help.

There wasn't a problem with my venting, whether it had been a 3800 or a 4500.

IT WAS A LOOSE NEGATIVE WIRE.

ALL MY PROBLEM, NOT NOVAKOOL.

I almost bought a Vitrifrigo or a Isotherm (same company), but either Novakool was an effortless install.

I would go with Novakool everytime now (unless I needed hard ice-cream).

And the R3800, for a person who never connects to Shore Power & only has 250 watts of Solar with driving to patients most days, has not taxed my battery banks at all.

[rtbill]

Since you still have the original fridge why not try improving the draft over the coils first. Doing this made an enormous difference for the fridge in our 200. I added computer fans to the lower vent panel to blow air into the coil space. The fans draw air through the bottom slot in the panel. I closed the other two slots with aluminum duct tape so all the air goes up. On the upper vent panel I similarly blocked the lower two slots, forcing the air to flow over the finned tube before exiting the upper slot. This significantly reduced the duty cycle (fraction of time on) for both AC and DC operation. The fridge stays in the 30-40 degree range even in summer and when driving running on DC. The reduced duty cycle saves more energy than the fans use.

I'm not familiar with the fridge installation on a 190, although I assume it is Roadtrek's typically poor work. The details of what you need to do will be different. The basic idea is force lots of air through the space behind the fridge and make sure it flows over the finned tube where most of the heat is rejected.

[rauscs]

rtbill - I've actually put a lot of work into the original frige, including setting it up much like you suggest. Two thermostatically controlled computer fans. Added an Arduino microcontroller to display the temp, frige mode ,the state of the thermocouple.

We've been on a road trip for two months, and have had four episodes where the frige stopped cooling, winding up with temps of 40 - 50 degrees for at least a day before getting better. At one point, it was more than 24 hours and I removed the frige and burped it. All I can blame these issues on is being not quite level on some national park spots where I did my best to get level, but apparently not well enough.

I like the fact that the 3-way consumes no electricity while on propane, and think I've got it working about as well as it can. I can't throw the contents of the frige out every time I get stuck in a campsite that is too far out of level.

[themexicandoctor]

Originally Posted by rauscs

rtbill - I've actually put a lot of work into the original frige, including setting it up much like you suggest. Two thermostatically controlled computer fans. Added an Arduino microcontroller to display the temp, frige mode ,the state of the thermocouple.

We've been on a road trip for two months, and have had four episodes where the frige stopped cooling, winding up with temps of 40 - 50 degrees for at least a day before getting better. At one point, it was more than 24 hours and I removed the frige and burped it. All I can blame these issues on is being not quite level on some national park spots where I did my best to get level, but apparently not well enough.

I like the fact that the 3-way consumes no electricity while on propane, and think I've got it working about as well as it can. I can't throw the contents of the frige out every time I get stuck in a campsite that is too far out of level.

MANY OF US have owned 3 Way Fridges, upgraded to DC Units & WOULD NEVER, EVER GO BACK.

Mine was a Dometic RM2354, the previous owner replaced it twice & I, once.

And during, any Summer period where it's off level, during the day or night, the Propane fridges simply cannot keep up.

Gave the Dometic to a friend with a Cabin, he burped it for 48 plus hours in every position & he has been enjoying it, non-stop.

It's such a pleasure with a DC Fridge, (if you have the Battery Bank & Charging in place), to be able to pull up most places & park trouble free including when the sun is on the fridge side.

Took me a couple of weeks until the habit of looking for a perfectly level parking space, faded.

[dicktill]

Originally Posted by rauscs

Hi Dicktill, can you tell me anything more re: ventilation on your 4500?

Here's a PowerPoint that I put together after I made the chimney (had to convert it to a pdf to post it). I'm sure there are some more photos, but couldn't find them now.

The chimney itself is 1/4" plywood, and is as close to the back of the fridge as possible. There are two pieces, the obvious vertical one, and a horizontal one from the bottom of that vertical to the van wall. The top view "is different" because I made a whole new galley.

[rauscs]

Thanks, dicktill, for the powerpoint. Great photos! A couple quick questions if I may;

- Did you leave the stock upper and lower exterior vents alone?
- Did you add any additional fans?
- Did you build the chimney because you had trouble with venting, or because you wanted to follow Nova Kool installation instructions?

Thanks again - Steve

[dicktill]

Originally Posted by rauscs

Thanks, dicktill, for the powerpoint. Great photos! A couple quick questions if I may;

- Did you leave the stock upper and lower exterior vents alone?
- Did you add any additional fans?
- Did you build the chimney because you had trouble with venting, or because you wanted to follow Nova Kool installation instructions?

Thanks again - Steve

"Did you leave the stock upper and lower exterior vents alone?" Yes, absolutely stock.

"Did you add any additional fans?" No, it works great without any additional ones.

"Did you build the chimney because you had trouble with venting, or because you wanted to follow Nova Kool installation instructions?" I did it because I had heard so many horror stories about people having problems, adding fans, etc., etc.. By having the vertical wall as close as possible to the back of the fridge, and blocking off other air routes, it forces the air flow from the built in fan up "the coils". Oh, and I'm a perfectionist. : )

Good luck, Dick

[rauscs]

Thanks, Dicktill, for the info. Looks like I'm on the way to installing a R4500 in my 190. Only issue is, where can I get one? It doesn't look like anyone in the US has one to sell. I just sent emails to all of the US distributers, we'll see if I get a hit. Anyone got a line on one?
Steve