Newbie Refining Search Criteria for Small Class B

[avanti]

Originally Posted by Hatteras Jim

I must be one of the few that would never consider another diesel Sprinter.

Believe me, you are far from the only one. Anyone who has experienced multiple spoiled vacations for the reasons you describe understands your point.

These are beautiful machines, and they are fundamentally sound. But the entire emissions system and other unreliable sensors, and the owner experience once they do fail are simply a disgrace.

I have owned two Sprinters. Never again.

[Davydd]

Let's put this in perspective. The OP was asking about T1N Sprinters which did not have those 10 start issues. When I had a T1N Sprinter there were no Mercedes Benz dealers capable of servicing them in my state. Now there are two and one is near our home. On the road I had in and out emergency service in Littleton, CO, Scottsdale, AZ and Shreveport, LA. Only one was because of Sprinter failure (a disconnected power steering fluid line.) The other two were service issues and replacement of a defective Nations second alternator and a VB Air Suspension punctured air bladder performed by MB for an Advanced RV installations with parts overnighted by ARV and in and out by noon with no delay in appointments.

The only known T1N issue I recall was the turbo resonator which you could replace yourself and I haven't heard much in a long time as it seems the issue has been addressed by MB or a third party aluminum one which I carried unused just in case. I never had that issue nor have I had the 10 start countdowns in 220,000 miles of driving Sprinters.

My new Sprinter finally arrived and now waiting to get converted after first the 2020 engine certification snafu, MB plant shutdown for COVID-19 and same for ARV. Yep, I'm getting a fourth Sprinter.

[avanti]

I agree that the T1N was a pretty bulletproof platform. I think it is an excellent choice if you don't mind a vehicle that old and its truck-like properties. I was very happy with my T1N. You do need to upgrade the turbo resonator in the unlikely event that you find one that has not already had the mod done. However, even then, the "limp mode" that results in this particular failure simply limits your top speed. You really can limp along for quite a distance, and the fix is trivial.

As for the NCV3, saying that one "never had a 10 starts countdown" is kind of damning with faint praise, IMO. It is only one of the many egregious failure modes that will spoil your trip.

The story of the VS30 has yet to be written, but there is no reason to think that the fundamentals have gotten any better. Once burned, twice shy.

[JohnnyCLE]

The following gentleman's plea is eloquent and summarizes the issues.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/fatal...-tom-robertson

I do believe replacement parts have become more reliable over the years.

To rub salt in the wound, if your holding tanks are on the passenger side, and waste outlet is on the driver's side the MB dealer will most likely ask you to have an RV dealer drop the tanks and disconnect the macerator, etc. so that they can properly service the exhaust system.

I have a long German last name, with an umlaut, and a relative worked for MB, however I won't be investing in another diesel Sprinter until the forthcoming OM656 is available. It has reengineered the exhaust treatment. Hopefully when it comes it will be paired with a 48v stop / start.

In the mean time, at the danger of being banned from the family burial plot, I have been casting a wayward eye towards the Transit diesel 48v start / stop!

[avanti]

Originally Posted by JohnnyCLE

I won't be investing in another diesel Sprinter until the forthcoming OM656 is available. It has reengineered the exhaust treatment. Hopefully when it comes it will be paired with a 48v stop / start.

Is there any evidence that there will ever be an OM656-based Sprinter? I agree that in the normal course of events, this would be next in the progression. But, it is not at all obvious to me that Daimler cares about diesel any more, and even with an existing engine, the development costs would be significant. My guess is that they are going to continue selling the same crap until people stop buying it, hoping that by then an EV option of some flavor will be practical. The only market they care about is fleet vehicles anyway, and for them, keeping the AdBlue system working is just a routine cost of business and no big deal.

The OM656 is in any event still a BlueTec engine. MAYBE they fixed all the problems. Maybe.

[JohnnyCLE]

No evidence, but hope springs eternal. The new model has been available on the S class in Germany and also a four cylinder variant now on the E class. There were past statements of intent that a new engine might be available with the refresh, but it did not happen. I would expect a slow roll out in a friendly market to try and avoid any nasty surprises. I also would not expect something until the current Amazon contract has run it's course. That makes the Ford Transit development interesting because I can't imagine a world where Mr. Benz allows Mr. Ford to outclass him in diesels for long.

I don't know if all of the gremlins were exorcised, but major changes were made in the emissions, pulling most of it off of the exhaust and onto the main engine where it can be more readily serviced. As with anything new I would expect some new gremlins as well.

My understanding is that up-fitters, including the RV market make up 30% of Sprinter sales. Have to imagine the next generation will take over sometime as it always has. It will be some time before an EV can handle the long haul trips of a diesel.

I am fortunate. I can be patient. I have already been through one exhaust overhaul. It was expensive but not the end of the world. I am not a full timer. They have my complete respect. Worst case for me is I get the Sprinter towed someplace and fly home to wait for it to be fixed. I just choose not to buy a second of the current generation when a possible replacement is on the horizon.

[Knit]

I’m on my second Sprinter class B. First one was 2013 Roadtrek RS Adventurous on 2013 Sprinter. I found the Roadtrek build to be good. Did have some Nox sensors replaced under warranty. My new one is a 2020 Winnebago Revel. So far I like the Sprinter platform. Look, there are going to be issues on anything you buy. In my case I don’t find that the problems I’ve had are any better or worse than what I read on these forums about other platforms.

[GeorgeRa]

My 2013 Sprinter had 3 issues:

2013 – Tail light had water condensation - warranty.

2014 - code P0196, Installed by myself a Wolvorine oil pan heater caused ECM confusion, why was the engine oil warm and the coolant cold? Dealer’s recommendation was to install coolant heater and not to use heating pad - warranty.

2019 – DEF heater / NOx sensors, one day lost in Midland Texas, took a couple of months to recover paid repair fee, my California Emission warranty was still active, good job by MB, fortunately I will not likely have to go to this dealer – warranty.

In 6 years, we had one day long stop in Midland far away from home. So, I would consider another Sprinter diesel. I have 5th version of NOx sensors which are more reliable. Not too many complains on oxygen sensors in gas engines and they are very similar to NOx sensors.

[Jayo]

Just want to chime in and say thanks to everyone adding replies and insight to the thread. I'm very new to class-B RVs myself and am finding lots of useful info in this thread. For starters, I wasn't aware that there was different "Eras" with roadtreks that were better and worse.

[Jon in AZ]

Originally Posted by Jayo

Just want to chime in and say thanks to everyone adding replies and insight to the thread. I'm very new to class-B RVs myself and am finding lots of useful info in this thread. For starters, I wasn't aware that there was different "Eras" with roadtreks that were better and worse.

Welcome from up in the White Mountains!

We have a 2014 Chevy Roadtrek from the "declining" era. It did have some manufacturing glitches. The most serious involves upper galley cabinets lacking sufficient support for the weight of the microwave.

I'm very happy with the Chevy Express 3500 with the 6.0L engine and 6-speed transmission. Good power and better than expected fuel mileage (18 mpg at 65-70 mph, dropping to 16 mpg with four people and towing a 1600# travel trailer).

The old-school vans aren't as roomy inside as the boxier Euro-style vans, but it's a trade-off for the old-school drivetrain that can be serviced just about anywhere. It’s still roomy enough for two.

As to the coach build quality, it's more a case of "could be better" than "piece of crap." I think you'll find that with many newer Class B’s, aside from high-end, low-volume custom and semi-custom builders.

[rowiebowie]

Originally Posted by Jayo

Just want to chime in and say thanks to everyone adding replies and insight to the thread. I'm very new to class-B RVs myself and am finding lots of useful info in this thread. For starters, I wasn't aware that there was different "Eras" with roadtreks that were better and worse.

Welcome to the forum Jayo!

[Jayo]

Originally Posted by Jon in AZ

Welcome from up in the White Mountains!

We have a 2014 Chevy Roadtrek from the "declining" era. It did have some manufacturing glitches. The most serious involves upper galley cabinets lacking sufficient support for the weight of the microwave.

I'm very happy with the Chevy Express 3500 with the 6.0L engine and 6-speed transmission. Good power and better than expected fuel mileage (18 mpg at 65-70 mph, dropping to 16 mpg with four people and towing a 1600# travel trailer).

The old-school vans aren't as roomy inside as the boxier Euro-style vans, but it's a trade-off for the old-school drivetrain that can be serviced just about anywhere. It’s still roomy enough for two.

As to the coach build quality, it's more a case of "could be better" than "piece of crap." I think you'll find that with many newer Class B’s, aside from high-end, low-volume custom and semi-custom builders.

Thanks and hello from Glendale! I saw your thread about the cabinets coming apart and honestly if that's the worst of it, then Roadtreks must be pretty decent. I've only recently taken an interest in RVs. I didn't know class-B RVs were a thing and over the past few weeks I've just been obsessed with them. Particularly with the RT 190P. It seems like it's right in a sweet spot of features, maneuverability, and quality. The idea of a stealthy van that doesn't draw attention which has a bathroom, basic kitchen, and a decent sized bed (plus other usual RV amenities) sounds amazing. I'm going to be coming into some money in the next few months and am seriously considering buying one. Sprinters and similar boxy vans also look very enticing too, but there's something about the Chevy based Roadtreks that have got me hooked.

I'm also surprised at how good of gas mileage you're getting. I was expecting more like 10mpg.

I am going to be moving back to my home state of Washington in the next few months and thought it would be a good time to take some time off and travel more and doing that in a class-B seems like an interesting move. I'd even considered living out of it for a few months if need be.

Anyways, cheers all. I've been scouring these forums getting ideas. Very interesting stuff and talented people here.

[mkguitar]

the Pleasure Way LexorTD is similar in features to the 190Popular...but the use of space works better for our needs- just 2 of us, so 2 seats a larger bed
galley on the pass side.



I have the 2006 built on a 2005 Chev and my 6.0 4 speed is sized well for the 9000# weight. we get 15 or 16 MPG at 65 mph



Mike

[booster]

The Chevy Lexor and the Roadtrek 190P are close to the same, especially if you get a 190 with the optional armoire to replace the third seat.


If you get the 190 with aisle shower, which some of us really like, the 190 will have quite a bit more storage in it than the Lexor. If you get the enclosed bath in the 190 it goes where the regular toilet and the third seat went and eats up a lot of storage and closes off the front to some degree.


The Lexor has the kitchen on the passenger side vs driver side for the 190, which for some is a big deal, but for many of us it just doesn't matter.



IMO, Roadtrek quality started slipping around 2008, or new roof 190 was a late 2007 and wasn't stellar, so in the years after that, I think the Lexor quality would be better, and more so the newer it is.


All the Chevies sit a bit low, with the Roadtreks the worst, so many of us have lifted them back to stock van height.


The 190 would have the drop floor, so more headroom going through the door, and a bit less overall height of the van.

[mkguitar]

forgot about that drop floor


when shopping I kept tripping over that ( very dick van dyke)






in the PW I can wear thin soled shoes...not boots or my head drags


very happy with the chev, could see me wanting to firm up the front end/steering some.


easy availability of service/parts/accessories
just re-did my front seat base foam- easy finding parts for a Chev


( however the peeling paint is a bummer)



mike

[booster]

Originally Posted by mkguitar

forgot about that drop floor


when shopping I kept tripping over that ( very dick van dyke)

in the PW I can wear thin soled shoes...not boots or my head drags

very happy with the chev, could see me wanting to firm up the front end/steering some.

easy availability of service/parts/accessories
just re-did my front seat base foam- easy finding parts for a Chev

mike

Yep you can take your choice of more head bonk on the door, or a Dick Van Dyke impression on the floor, although we do OK on the floor now.

[Jon in AZ]

The shower pan floor is one of my favorite features. Nice to know any major spills are contained, and there’s a drain. We have it covered with a nice plush carpet for everyday use, easily replaced and comfortable with our no shoes policy. Ours has the larger wet bath, so we would probably use the smaller seated shower inside the wet bath rather than the aisle, but choices are good. The inch or two floor rise entering the cockpit or bed area has not been a stumbling block for us.

I have knocked my head a number of times on the door frame going out and the rear upper cabinets getting in or out of the rear sofa. Eventually it becomes automatic to duck.