New Treking Blues - 2015 RT TS - Page 3

wincrasher · 11-08-2015, 09:31 PM

If they will haul it back to the factory, fix it, and haul it back, you should really give the chance to do that. If it's still not right, then you are left to suing them or negotiating a replacement unit. Once you start to litigate, then they will dig in.

Scottbaldassari · 11-08-2015, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fr8rcapt

..."RT's answer? We'll send a truck down and bring your RV all the way from Texas up to Ontario to fix it."...

Yeah, I agree with Wincrasher, once litigation is involved, you are the adversary and the opponent, you are no longer the customer. Obviously you are an unhappy one, and have more problems than you should with your new rig, but it seems like Road Trek is trying very hard to make things right, which is all they can do. The offer above seems MORE than reasonable to me. If the dealer can't make it right, they will.

Arlo · 11-08-2015, 10:33 PM

I agree with Wincrasher. During my first year of E-Trek ownership I had some warranty issues, live 6 hours from my RT dealer, and was still working full time. RT sent a driver to my home (southern IN) and drove the van to Kitchener (with driver's car in tow). They fixed all of the warranty items, did some electrical upgrades (with my consent), and comped the first A service at the Kitchener MB dealer. The driver returned the van to my home after 3-4 weeks. If your options are litigate or potential factory fix, give RT the opportunity to make things right.

Davydd · 11-08-2015, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arlo

I agree with Wincrasher. During my first year of E-Trek ownership I had some warranty issues, live 6 hours from my RT dealer, and was still working full time. RT sent a driver to my home (southern IN) and drove the van to Kitchener (with driver's car in tow). They fixed all of the warranty items, did some electrical upgrades (with my consent), and comped the first A service at the Kitchener MB dealer. The driver returned the van to my home after 3-4 weeks. If your options are litigate or potential factory fix, give RT the opportunity to make things right.

I would say that is exceptional outstanding service.

markopolo · 11-09-2015, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davydd

I would say that is exceptional outstanding service.

IMO, in Fr8rcapt case it's the bare minimum service required and it is long overdue. He has reported 40 "different maintenance requirements" and that the dealer was only able to fix "about 10"!

wincrasher · 11-09-2015, 01:21 PM

Think he's referring to Arlo's experience, not Fr8capt's.

markopolo · 11-09-2015, 01:41 PM

Yes, he was. I did try to quote the whole post but it didn't come through.

Maybe it was in Arlo's case. I don't know what didn't work on his Etrek.

In Fr8rcapt case this is unresolved since at least July. Cut the guy a check & set him free.

BobB · 11-09-2015, 02:07 PM

Many think litigation is the answer "I will have my day in court!" Except when you get there, many times the judge says "what are you doing in my courtroom? Sit down and settle this!" And nobody ever really "wins" in settlements.

At least that is my experience.

The goal here is to have your RT up and running, out on the road enjoying traveling in your new RV!

If you go to court, you most likely will end up with bills, some cash in your pocket, and a broken RT. And it will take months. NO, make that years - remember you are in the U.S. and they are in Canada - that will definitely complicate legal matters.

Take up RT on their offer. Give them the opportunity to make it right. While they are having some issues with these new models, they still make a nice RV and there are many people out there enjoying them. Avoid litigation.

Davydd · 11-09-2015, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markopolo

Yes, he was. I did try to quote the whole post but it didn't come through.

Maybe it was in Arlo's case. I don't know what didn't work on his Etrek.

In Fr8rcapt case this is unresolved since at least July. Cut the guy a check & set him free.

I was commenting to Arlo's case which should give Fr8rcapt hope that maybe he could get resolution without cutting ties with Roadtrek.

markopolo · 11-09-2015, 02:32 PM

IMO, You almost have no choice but to allow Roadtrek the opportunity to try to fix the RV.

Even if you are doubtful that they can fix it, allowing them the opportunity to try to fix it would be viewed in your favor should this later end up before the courts.

Getting a lawyer involved might still be a good idea. A letter from a lawyer could offer them the opportunity to refund the purchase and also outline what acceptable repairs would constitute should they opt to not refund the purchase. It could delay things though.

If a fully operational unit is the end goal at this point then get the process started.

booster · 11-09-2015, 02:35 PM

For the most part, Roadtrek has gotten themselves, and their customers, into this predicament. First by making a less than stellar product, then by not having decently trained dealers to fix them. Put on top of that the blame the customer attitude with Facebook boots and ignored and not returned calls, and couple it with the large amount of money invested, and you can see why it has gotten ugly in so many cases.

Did the offer to take it to the factory happen because of the chatter here, and maybe elsewhere after a lot of ignoring? Who knows, but it doesn't really matter either, as it really is coming too late to be considered good customer service.

I agree that litigation can often leave everyone unhappy, although it does often have good outcomes, too. Small claims works much better in most cases, but this is too much $, I assume. That said, this should never, ever, have gotten to the point of needing to consider litigation. The latest batch of Roadtreks have problems, and Roadtrek certainly knows it. The phone calls should have been returned, and the offer of the return to factory repair should have been made after days, not weeks if no response.

Roadtrek needs to just buy the unit back, fix it, and sell it as a demo/used and be done with it, and that should have been done a long time ago when asked for. We already have heard of another unit that was refunded, although I don't think it was ever delivered, so the precedent is already there.

Why companies drag stuff like this out for so long is so very hard for me to understand. As Marko said, set the guy free and move on.

obgraham · 11-09-2015, 02:42 PM

Maybe I'm playing the devil's advocate here, but:
Consider the times we live in now. If RT does a full refund here, then who knows how many others will jump on that bandwagon as soon as they have a service issue which is fussy to fix?

avanti · 11-09-2015, 03:07 PM

There is also the lemon law route to consider. A bit more customer-friendly than a simple court case, and there are plenty of spec lawyers around that specialize in such cases. Note, though, that most lemon laws are only triggered by multiple failed attempts to fix a single problem, not a never-ending list of different ones.

wincrasher · 11-09-2015, 03:23 PM

My dad has been down the lemon law avenue twice. When you start this process, they go into a mode to try to wear you down. It can take a very long time. The paperwork requirements are onerous. Every single shop visit must be documented. If the dates are wrong, that's just too bad for you.

He did persevere though. Settled one before the ruling by getting a brand new replacement unit, the second they paid him out.

One thing I've learned from his experiences - be a nice guy and they will walk all over you and you won't get any relief. Be a raving mad man and they won't deal with you either and you won't get any relief. You have to ply the middle ground - be firm and clear with what you will or will not accept. Don't leave them anything to figure out or try to read you. Be direct and give the impression you are fair, but won't put up with any BS.

markopolo · 11-09-2015, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wincrasher

.................................. One thing I've learned from his experiences - be a nice guy and they will walk all over you and you won't get any relief. Be a raving mad man and they won't deal with you either and you won't get any relief. You have to ply the middle ground - be firm and clear with what you will or will not accept. Don't leave them anything to figure out or try to read you. Be direct and give the impression you are fair, but won't put up with any BS.

That's good advice.

On the company side, they need to quickly determine the severity of the problems, the tolerance of the customer and the likelihood of a satisfactory outcome.

Fr8rcapt has reported 40 "different maintenance requirements" and that the dealer was only able to fix "about 10". That requires the attention of someone able to asses the situation and implement a course of action promptly. This looks to have started in July so it's too late for prompt but would seem like a great time for some loss of use or enjoyment compensation to kick in.

I'm not clear on what the 30 or so unresolved items are or what Fr8rcapt previous RV experience was or what his expectations are. It's possible that some of the items would not be an issue for some of us. Small things that can easily be accepted on their own can get added to other issues as time slips by and problems aren't resolved.

wincrasher · 11-09-2015, 03:47 PM

Yes, 40 items is a colossal list. His rig was either a total disaster or he's unrealistically expecting perfection. Seeing the list would tell us a lot on that front.

Another thing I'd recommend - always prepare your own list. Half the problems in a service dept I think are them trying to decipher the scribblings of the service writer. Always write down a detailed list and be as descriptive as you can and use complete sentences and grammer. Go over this list with your service writer and insist it be attached to the work order. When you pick up your rig, make sure they indicate each item that was completed with some kind of notations and also make sure the in and out dates and times are correct. These times are your drop off and pick up times, not when they worked on it! In many states the days out of service are key to your legal or lemon law claims. Don't let inaccuracies go - some will try to screw you with that.

booster · 11-09-2015, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by obgraham

Maybe I'm playing the devil's advocate here, but:
Consider the times we live in now. If RT does a full refund here, then who knows how many others will jump on that bandwagon as soon as they have a service issue which is fussy to fix?

I am sure that is what Roadtrek is worried about with the current large number of questionable units out there. I would also agree that there could be some folks who would jump at it too early. But, I also think that if handled properly from the beginning, with respect and a clear plan, there would be a very small need for a buyback. Even in the case of the discussion here, I think we would be looking at a total different story if Roadtrek had said early on (when all the problems started arising) that they would like to take it back to the factory to fix it. They could also have been clear that if they didn't get it fixed to the customer's satisfaction they would look at taking it back or replacing it.

Unfortunately, most companies have come to the conclusion that they can intimidate and/or out wait most customers, as there are few that have the stomach or time to do what it takes to push back effectively. As was mentioned, being nice is a good way to start in dealing with issues, but it often not enough. Knowing when, and how, to push harder is needed. Too bad it has to be that way.

BobB · 11-09-2015, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wincrasher

Seeing the list would tell us a lot on that front.

Yes, the list please. There are many others on this forum (not me) with a wealth of experience on assessing the relative seriousness of the items on your list.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wincrasher

..... use complete sentences and grammer.

and check your spelling as in "grammar" -

Type it up and avoid the handwritten issues.

markopolo · 11-09-2015, 04:41 PM

My Gramma was awesome.

A developer's project was too large and disruptive for the location. She placed an obituary in the local paper about the death of the neighborhood which got the attention needed to have the project scaled to a size appropriate for the neighborhood. That might have been half a century ago. She could sure think outside the box.

Almost on topic

mkguitar · 11-09-2015, 07:49 PM

oh so glad I have an older proven unit.

to be on the cutting edge of technology can hurt.

O/P I'd suggest that you plainly list each problem and the resolution for each problem ( or not) in chronological order.

That may help you, It may help the next Guy, it may help the manufacturer and dealer determine where common faults are occurring

I think in your shoes, I would just want a do-over. take the van, give me my money.
thanks, goodbye

Mike

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