New RT Zion Link

[wincrasher]

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

I agree that customer relations is a big issue and I think their major problem at the moment. The technical issues will likely get resolved but they are going to have a long road to recover from their poor treatment of a bunch of customers who have written them off. Cannot really understand how they got into this mode treatment for customers but the reports continue daily of amazing lack of response customer problems in many cases. Of course you only hear about it on the Roadtrek Owners Group, everything is rosy in the other group.

You may have seen Mike Wendland's comment when Campskunk got reported to Facebook by someone for not using his real name and having his account and all his posts deleted. Mike made it clear that in his view it was surely someone from the Owners group who reported him.

Here is Mike's comment, once again showing his tact as an Ambassador for Roadtrek and pissing on a large group of owners...

-----------------
Mike Wendland‬

Folks...make no mistake... there are trolls from the other FB group...several of them people who ave been booted off this group...who are determined to make life for everyone else as miserable as their's. Several are here under false names. They are nasty, emotionally disturbed people. We do our best getting rid of them when they show up but then they do things like complain about Campskunk's name to get even. It's best to ignore tham. You can always spot their smug, condescending attitude when they post and our moderators do a good jib of removing them but sometimes they get through.

---------------

And if you are reading this, Campskunk, I can tell you I did not report you and agree that it was a crappy thing to do to you. Of course, I do think there was a little Karma involved since you have been lurking around and reporting traitors who are then kicked off of Mike's group. Sometimes what goes around, comes around...

LOL. I hadn't heard all that. Don't pay much attention to their group lately. But you did make my day, so thank you. Wish I had thought of turning him in. Alias's are strictly against TOS on Facebook.

Mike declaring someone smug and condescending is rich. Pot calling the kettle black IMNSHO.

Roadtreks problem is all attitude and the current management. I've written them off completely until there is a change at the top. That day will come soon enough, so all is not lost.

[avanti]

I think it is important to separate opinions about the company from those about the product.

I have consistently given RT credit for at least trying to innovate. For me, that makes up for a lot of the sales and marketing nonsense (and nonsense it is), and I can forgive a certain amount of growing pains. I do not hate RT as a company.

My real problem with them is that I am unimpressed with their products. Part of this is a matter of taste. Some people like the efficient, but dark and cramped designs and the driver-side galleys. I do not. But, I cannot countenance the consistently mediocre build quality that I see every time I inspect one of their vans. What I see would be a good value at Winnebago prices, but at RT prices I expect better. In this regard, they are no worse than Thor, but no better either.

If I were buying today, I am not sure what I would do. With GWV and LTV both out of the B-van picture, the choices are very limited. I might be tempted to look to one of the custom upfitters. This is probably reflecting the fact that I am not a first-time purchaser, though.

[gregmchugh]

Sorry, but I thought Pleasureway was simply installing something like a Smart battery. Does this have the battery heaters like the ARV and Roadtrek systems? I wouldn't really consider replacing your current batteries with an off the shelf lithium battery the same level of innovation as the higher capacity systems from ARV and Roadtrek.

[wincrasher]

I'd agree with alot of what you say Avanti. How much you want to spend certainly plays into your expectations.

If your budget is one low end, say around $100-110k or less, you are hard pressed to choose anything other than a WGO simply from a value for money perspective. Not alot of bells and whistles, but a price no-one can touch.

As you look at the others - Roadtrek, Airstream, Pleasureway, etc., some of the models are approaching ARV prices. It's not hard to get a CS Adventurous or an Airstream Grand Tour approaching $180k. At that kind of money, the leap to an ARV is not all that great.

Maybe Pleasureway and Coach House have the middle ground. Fairly nicely appointed, but limited tech, but pricing $130-150k. Alot for a van without an advanced electrical system if you ask me.

[wincrasher]

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

Sorry, but I thought Pleasureway was simply installing something like a Smart battery. Does this have the battery heaters like the ARV and Roadtrek systems? I wouldn't really consider replacing your current batteries with an off the shelf lithium battery the same level of innovation as the higher capacity systems from ARV and Roadtrek.

You are right that they are not on par technically. But unlike Roadtrek, the system is simple and appears to work. "Good enough" may be a philosophy RT should consider. Pleasureway's drop-ins reside in a box that is not heated, but is accessed thru the cabin, so it may keep to cabin temperature. Thier charger is simple and provided by a major supplier. Also, their "system" is standard equipment, not high $ extra cost. These simple things may make it usable for 99% of owners.

[gregmchugh]

I agree that the Pleasureway approach makes sense for the vast majority of customers. Simple, low risk, plenty of battery capacity for most users.

[booster]

All the talk about customer relations and how they can affect the potential customers got me thinking about some consequences that may or may not be an issue.

Wherever we go with our 07 Roadtrek 190P, we get folks asking how we like, how reliable it is, what the mileage is, etc. The question would be if Roadtrek has alienated enough folks with their attitude to make a difference in what folks hear in campgrounds and other travel spots? Word of mouth is a big deal, unless you are going for the first time newbie market who would listen to the fangirls and other Facebook groupies.

[gregmchugh]

The danger with trying to extrapolate what happens on the Facebook groups or here to the real world is that with 30,000 Roadtreks in the road we really only interact with a very small percentage of of the owners who are online in these groups. How much do we really know about what is happening with the vast majority? My guess is that the vast majority may be very happy with their van and with Roadtrek and planning to continue buying them. Of course the main problem is that the average age of these owners is likely pretty old and they are not being replaced by young buyers fast enough to replace the older ones who are aging out if the market.

[BobB]

Originally Posted by booster

Wherever we go with our 07 Roadtrek 190P, we get folks asking how we like, how reliable it is, what the mileage is, etc.

Always find happy campers with the older RTs. However, I have not met any with the newer Sprinter/Promaster models. I have not seen many either; usually just passing on the highway. Same with Travatos. Have met people with newer Airstream and Pleasureway models, based on Sprinters, who are very happy with them.

We'll see what comes our way this spring and summer.

[gregmchugh]

I am a happy owner of a simple 08 RS and we have met many happy owners of these earlier model Sprinters before the complex systems came along. I also have seen very few of the newer Sprinters and Promasters out in the world but if course you don't see many Class Bs at all.

[Davydd]

Considering Class Bs are just 1% of all RVs, motorized and trailered, that means odds of about 1 in a 100 in a campground. You might increase those odds a little bit by the nature of the kind of places you can travel to, but not all that much. If you want to see lots of Class Bs go to socials and rallies. I'm starting the season early with the UP Freezeout organized by Mike Wendland no less. I will see lots of Roadtreks there. Then there might be another social in Texas, Advanced Fest in Ohio, the Lucky 13 B rally in North Carolina and another social in Santa Fe. That takes care of spring. Nothing scheduled yet for this fall. I can potentially see 100 Class Bs of all kinds and ages including Wincrasher's mods and toys. I've seen quite a few of the Advanced RVs finished and in conversion.

RV shows are OK and another source too, but you are not meeting people that actually use Class Bs. Also, when I bought my Great West Van Legend I agreed to have it on display at the 2011 Minneapolis RV show. So I hung around a bit and answered questions and mostly listened to comments as people passed through. It takes a special person to want a B. It is mostly the female half of couples that are the most critical and turned off. I guess size does matter.

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by wincrasher

LOL. I hadn't heard all that. Don't pay much attention to their group lately. But you did make my day, so thank you. Wish I had thought of turning him in. Alias's are strictly against TOS on Facebook.

Mike declaring someone smug and condescending is rich. Pot calling the kettle black IMNSHO.

Roadtreks problem is all attitude and the current management. I've written them off completely until there is a change at the top. That day will come soon enough, so all is not lost.

You would really have turned Campskunk in? Pretty harsh...

The real name policy on Facebook seems pretty much ignored unless some turns you in. There are pretty obviously a lot of phony names...

[GeorgeB]

OMG!
I didn't expect all those very legitimate reactions when I posted originaly my question about the unveiling of the new Zion Link model!
UPDATE: It would normally be a positive and exciting event for all of B fans, like us.

One thing is sure, Roadtrek has now two major problems: design and marketing strategies. It's unfortunate that this time they failed completely. I still believe they can overcome their actual problems. As most of you are implying: there's a need for a major management change. If I was one of the investors, i would strongly suggest it.

[avanti]

It must also be said that RoadTrek has pretty good brand recognition, as B-vans go. I have no data, but I would bet that if you did a poll of the general public and asked them to name a manufacturer of van-based motorhomes, the most frequent response would be blank stares, but that the second highest would be "RoadTrek". That is worth something.

[wincrasher]

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

You would really have turned Campskunk in? Pretty harsh...

The real name policy on Facebook seems pretty much ignored unless some turns you in. There are pretty obviously a lot of phony names...

Absolutely. I know he has other aliases and supposedly he's in my Facebook group spying on us, but a certain someone won't tell me who he is so I can boot him. Pretty much I think I've kept out the Roadtrekking admins and SEVERAL RT executives who've asked to join.

Generally I don't accept members who have aliases. I have to talk with them and figure out what they are doing before I let them in. Most of the time I've found the cutesy aliases are spammers or scoundrels. I also have to watch the Asian names, particularly Koreans or Chinese as they are almost always spammers.

[nebulight]

Any updates or more photos of the Zion Link?

EDIT: Found some pics on roadtreking. Looks like the toilet is seperate and may take up a lot of space:



and the shower extended:



And the kitchen:



While these photos don't show the full picture, this feels very cramped compared to somethign like the Safari Condo MX (though that does lack an interior shower and uses a cassette toilet).

[GeorgeB]

Originally Posted by nebulight

Any updates or more photos of the Zion Link?

Nope! I guess they are busy building the Hymercar! Or fixing that shower contraption to make it work.

That was the last post http://roadtreking.com/hanging-out-a...tampa-rv-show/

[nebulight]

bump, any new info or photos/videos?

[nebulight]

Originally Posted by nebulight

bump, any new info or photos/videos?

Looks like they are making the link:

You are being redirected...

I'll try to grab a bunch of photos and maybe a video while I'm at the Hershey show.

[rockymtnb]

Interesting that the Hymer Roadtrek PR for Hershey still claims to be the Leading Class B in North America, although Marko's sales reports seem to indicate that Winnebago has been solidly leading for the last year and a half.

Maybe that's why they're introducing trailers - so they can look out those big rear windows and think they're still in front...