New Roadtrek RS E-Trek

[booster]

I did a little digging on AC units (rooftop).

This is a spec list from the Dometic site.



Roadtrek lists the model 600312 as used in the RS and Agile, which is the lowest amp draw of the units listed with their BTU capacities. It would use better than 100AH/hr.

There are lower power usage models listed, but no capacities. I think it is very possible Roadtrek is using one of them to reduce power usage, but we won't know until we know what AC they use in the e-trek.

[Mike]

It occurs to me, and to put these costs in perspective, that If gerrym51 is correct, and I have no reason to doubt, you can almost rebuild the engine (as I looked into earlier this year) in a Chev based model, for the cost of a DPF unit in a Sprinter.
Mind boggling.

[booster]

Originally Posted by Mike

It occurs to me, and to put these costs in perspective, that If gerrym51 is correct, and I have no reason to doubt, you can almost rebuild the engine (as I looked into earlier this year) in a Chev based model, for the cost of a DPF unit in a Sprinter.
Mind boggling.

Odd, but true. It may just be that direct injection gas engine would be a better choice to run the big engine powered generator.

[markopolo]

I'm passionate about all thing Class B related so I visit a lot of Class B related sites. Some often, some maybe once a month. Most sites have a current topic a the E-Trek right now so there is a lot of interest and/or curiosity. At this point, there will be few Class B enthusiasts who have not read about the E-Trek.

I'd consider one if I was looking to buy a new Sprinter. If you mostly tour around and/or plug in at campsites the extended idling won't be much of an issue. You might be limited to two nights dry camping with heavy electricity use but with reasonable power use you'll have lots of power available. As usual, with no dedicated generator, it is the Air Conditioner use (and the electric heater in the E-trek) that causes the rapid depletion of your batteries.

All of this info about the problems re: DPF (diesel particulate filter) filling up prematurely is great to have. Purchasers will know how to minimize the risks associated with extended idling. None of us want to see reports of a fellow camper having expensive repairs.

Regeneration - if you own a Sprinter make sure you understand what Regeneration is.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_particulate_filter

Regeneration is the process of removing the accumulated soot from the filter. This is done either passively (from the engine's exhaust heat in normal operation or by adding a catalyst to the filter) or actively introducing very high heat into the exhaust system.

The regeneration process occurs at road speeds higher than can generally be attained on city streets; vehicles driven exclusively at low speeds in urban traffic can require periodic trips at higher speeds to clean out the DPF.

If you idle it, then make sure to drive it

[markopolo]

Can anyone confirm the $3,000 cost of a DPF replacement. I've read that on another forum also.

Sprinter repairs, although probably much rarer than the internet presents, can be spectacularly expensive. $2,000+ turbocharger replacements. $8,000 for a new transmission installed.

Problems will get reported more readily on the web.
On this forum, Davydd has owned two Sprinters and has put a lot of miles on then and I don't recall him ever reporting a major problem.

Re: Air Conditioner amps - 11,000BTU / 100 amps DC seems right. My 5,000 btu is 40+ amps DC through the inverter. Amps will go up as the voltage decreases from the batteries draining.

[gerrym51]

Originally Posted by markopolo

Can anyone confirm the $3,000 cost of a DPF replacement. I've read that on another forum also.

Sprinter repairs, although probably much rarer than the internet presents, can be spectacularly expensive. $2,000+ turbocharger replacements. $8,000 for a new transmission installed.

Problems will get reported more readily on the web.
On this forum, Davydd has owned two Sprinters and has put a lot of miles on then and I don't recall him ever reporting a major problem.

Re: Air Conditioner amps - 11,000BTU / 100 amps DC seems right. My 5,000 btu is 40+ amps DC through the inverter. Amps will go up as the voltage decreases from the batteries draining.

some dpf's can be cleaned. however thw small dpf MB uses has to br replaced. it is 3000.00

[booster]

Originally Posted by gerrym51

some dpf's can be cleaned. however thw small dpf MB uses has to br replaced. it is 3000.00

When I was digging around about the plugging, I did run into a few folks that had them cleaned. Most talked about a send it in to someplace to get cleaned for about $500. I didn't note any details, as I don't have one, but I think they also said freightliner dealers will do them. Not all can be cleaned though, I guess do to heat damage of the ceramic.

[gerrym51]

Originally Posted by booster

When I was digging around about the plugging, I did run into a few folks that had them cleaned. Most talked about a send it in to someplace to get cleaned for about $500. I didn't note any details, as I don't have one, but I think they also said freightliner dealers will do them. Not all can be cleaned though, I guess do to heat damage of the ceramic.

gee imagine this scenario who does the removing and shippong to get them cleaned the owner -the dealer who gets a fee for service=shipping charges on and on the mb dpf's are Not made to be cleaned

[booster]

Originally Posted by gerrym51

gee imagine this scenario who does the removing and shippong to get them cleaned the owner -the dealer who gets a fee for service=shipping charges on and on the mb dpf's are Not made to be cleaned

The folks talking about it were the van owners and doing the work themselves. There was some talk about the how some models were easy to get out and some difficult. For those of us who do their own work, it would be a good deal, not so good if the van had to sit at a shop while the DPF went out for cleaning.

[Rok]

I'm interested in this subject for more than one reason. First, we are currently in the market for a Class B unit. Second, we've also been looking at the new electric cars that are being offered. There is a lot of new technology coming down the pike regarding running vehicles using electricity rather than fossil fuels. Roadtrek is probably right to get into the market as soon as is feasible. It sounds like a lot of enthuiasts are questioning whether they built this unit without thinking it through. There is a lot of money at risk for a company to do the R&D on a new product, and I find it difficult to think the roadtrek designers didn't think about the particulate filter issue. If running a diesel engine at low revs for too long produces this type of problem, then I would think that it would be on the checklist of any qualified engineer to address in any design.

Has anyone called RTrek to see if they've addressed this issue. I know on teh Volt (Chevy semi-electric auto) a similar issue is that if someone constantly drives the car using electricity only, there is a possibility of the gasoling getting too old, so the unit has an onboard computer that will occasionally run the car using gasoline EVEN IF it is fully charged just to address this issue.

Is it possible that R-Trek has addressed the issue in some similar manner, like maybe having the engine run at higher revs to clean out the particulate filter.

I will openly admit that I am ignorant about a lot of the technical issues some of you are writing about here (so maybe my comments are not on track), but it would be interesting to hear what R-Trek's view is of this issue, and also the opinion of the few people who already have the units and are using them.

..........Rocky

[gerrym51]

Originally Posted by Rok

I'm interested in this subject for more than one reason. First, we are currently in the market for a Class B unit. Second, we've also been looking at the new electric cars that are being offered. There is a lot of new technology coming down the pike regarding running vehicles using electricity rather than fossil fuels. Roadtrek is probably right to get into the market as soon as is feasible. It sounds like a lot of enthuiasts are questioning whether they built this unit without thinking it through. There is a lot of money at risk for a company to do the R&D on a new product, and I find it difficult to think the roadtrek designers didn't think about the particulate filter issue. If running a diesel engine at low revs for too long produces this type of problem, then I would think that it would be on the checklist of any qualified engineer to address in any design.

Has anyone called RTrek to see if they've addressed this issue. I know on teh Volt (Chevy semi-electric auto) a similar issue is that if someone constantly drives the car using electricity only, there is a possibility of the gasoling getting too old, so the unit has an onboard computer that will occasionally run the car using gasoline EVEN IF it is fully charged just to address this issue.

Is it possible that R-Trek has addressed the issue in some similar manner, like maybe having the engine run at higher revs to clean out the particulate filter.

I will openly admit that I am ignorant about a lot of the technical issues some of you are writing about here (so maybe my comments are not on track), but it would be interesting to hear what R-Trek's view is of this issue, and also the opinion of the few people who already have the units and are using them.

..........Rocky

Rock, here is the principle at work. think of diesel particle waste as wood on a fire. the dpf burns this wood. assuming the dpf is kept at a high enough temperature it burns the wood more completly than at low temperatures and becomes clogged after a longer period of time. the unburnable wood in a fire is the ash. this is what eventually fills up the dpf at around 150,000 miles. the dpf IS going to fill up-just following good dpf procedures-good oil-good diesel-little idling just makes it take longer-but at some point has to be replaced/cleanrd. MB does not wan to mess around with cleanings-they want you to buy a new Dpf.

[markopolo]

Just to be clear the DPF clogging over time is a Mercedes Sprinter issue. I've saw a report of getting 300,000m out of a DPF here:

http://www.expeditersonline.com/forum/t ... ogged.html

Excessive idling is often cited as a cause for premature clogging of the DPF. So idling the E-Trek to charge the batteries has linked it to the DPF cleaning/replacement issue.

Rok's suggestion is good. If you are considering an E-Trek call them to find out. I'm very curious to know if RT ordered Sprinters with the fast idle option for the E-Trek builds. I'm not curious enough to call though. RT is understandably protective of the design but I'm sure they will happily discuss this with potential owners.

[gerrym51]

Originally Posted by markopolo

Just to be clear the DPF clogging over time is a Mercedes Sprinter issue. I've saw a report of getting 300,000m out of a DPF here:

http://www.expeditersonline.com/forum/t ... ogged.html

Excessive idling is often cited as a cause for premature clogging of the DPF. So idling the E-Trek to charge the batteries has linked it to the DPF cleaning/replacement issue.

Rok's suggestion is good. If you are considering an E-Trek call them to find out. I'm very curious to know if RT ordered Sprinters with the fast idle option for the E-Trek builds. I'm not curious enough to call though. RT is understandably protective of the design but I'm sure they will happily discuss this with potential owners.

marko-this is a problem with all small dpf's. the big trucks 18 wheelers etc have much larger dpf and big tuck facilities to clean dpf's

not so in usa for small dpfs hi idle is fine=but a dpf will still clog eventually-expediters that drive long distances maintain much higher dpf temeperatures and the dpf clogs slower

[markopolo]

Do the 2012 and 2013 Sprinters have a DPF?

This link: http://www.ourexcellentadventures.com/2 ... r-engines/
Indicates that 07-09 Sprinter engines used EGR with DPF and the 2010 Sprinter engine uses SCR and DEF.
Is the DPF part of the SCR?

Mercedes did mention the DPF in their email to me re: extended idling..............

Per your request, with the SCR technology of our engines, we do not recommend idling a Sprinter for longer periods than 2.5 - 3 hours.

Even with the high idle engaged, you should not exceed the aforementioned times to avoid clogging the DPF or damage to the EGR valve.

Fyi, the fuel consumption is .4 - . 5gal. per hour of idling.

[gerrym51]

Originally Posted by markopolo

Do the 2012 and 2013 Sprinters have a DPF?

This link: http://www.ourexcellentadventures.com/2 ... r-engines/
Indicates that 07-09 Sprinter engines used EGR with DPF and the 2010 Sprinter engine uses SCR and DEF.
Is the DPF part of the SCR?

Mercedes did mention the DPF in their email to me re: extended idling..............

yes they still have dpf they also have def for the nitrous oxide that dpf did not clean. def is urea that inactivates nitrous oxide

[gerrym51]

Originally Posted by gerrym51

yes they still have dpf they also have def for the nitrous oxide that dpf did not clean. def is urea that inactivates nitrous oxide

but roadtreks literature says they have a special generator/alternator that will charge the batteries in 40 minutes. DPF" will still eventaully fill up

[booster]

Here is a link to the window sticker for an e-trek coming to a dealer. Certainly not cheap.

http://www.americanrv.com/pdfs/128.8897.pdf

It does confirm the 11,000 btu AC, which makes most of Roadtreks run time and charging numbers suspect, as expected. 1800 watt convection oven will use over 150 amps of DC by the time it is inverted, and convection ovens can run for quite a while for some cooking.

I do wish Roadtrek would jump in and explain how they got their numbers. They may be right, but let us know how they were determined.

[Mike]

Caveat emptor, anyone? I also agree with booster and markopolo that Roadtrek must know we have questions and concerns about how they came up with their numbers for all of this, and if the answers aren't forthcoming openly from the source, one has to wonder why? The DPF issue seems cut and dried. It's an MB part that wears out (or clogs) as a result of normal use. At different rates, based on patterns of use.

General question to Roadtrek, regarding the E-Trek, if we're wrong in our calculations/observations, please explain.

[markopolo]

Thanks for that link booster.
I was curious about the TV antenna on the E-Trek. That link shows the brand is Sole. http://www.soletv.com/SAHD400.html
Also, the word AIMs is noted with the charger. The E-trek video showed an Outback inverter/charger so I wonder they're using an AIMS solar controller.

[markopolo]

Roadtrek is under no obligation to provide data to the curious like me. Yes, they need to provide more data on re-charge times etc. to customers and potential customers if those customers want it. RT has obviously put a lot of effort into this E-Trek concept and understandably need to protect the ideas from the competition.

I'm not looking for a new RV and just want to learn as much info about the E-Trek to see if I can implement some of their ideas in my van. That is not going to pay the bills at RT. So, I have to be patient. To date, I haven't seen any major caveats as to the suitability of the E-Trek as an upscale tourer.

Most RVers really do not understand volts, amps, watts, solar etc. From a sales point of view presenting too much data might confuse potential customers.