New Roadtrek RS E-Trek

[Mike]

There is a price advantage to buying a "mass" produced product (mass produced is hardly the case, but you know what I mean). Reading some of the other forums and seeing some of the deficiencies exposed on some more recently produced class B products, I'd be surprised too. I think the issues with fit/finish with Roadtreks started around the same time you bought (or were looking for) yours? I saw some pretty poor products described on the Yahoo Group, when I was over there a while back. Of course, for every bad experience, there are undoubtedly a bunch of satisfied customers, so a sampling of salt grains are a must, when reading and evaluating random internet commentary.
You get what you pay for. "if you're in the market and have the money" was the way I was thinking. I was in the market, but didn't have a lot to spend, so we got a nice used model with (almost) everything we wanted, and it's served us well. There are a few things on it I would have changed (and am still considering doing) for quality and functionality, but that would have stressed/stretched our budget at the time. We had both recently retired, and were trying to feel our way around that, so we erred on the side of caution, if that makes sense.

[booster]

Roadtrek has more pictures on the website of the e-trek. They have a decent battery pic, but I can't identify the brand or size. They don't look huge though, so it looks like the 1600amps of battery is at 6 volts, not 12.



They also state the engine generator is 3500 watts. That gives 583 amps at 6 volts, so it would take 2 3/4 hours to charge the batteries if they were dead, not 40 minutes as stated. Even if they were at 50% it would be 1.3 hours. And these calcs assume the batteries could and would accept all the amperage, which they won't.

Still too many things that don't add up.

[markopolo]

I zoomed in on the batteries and rotated the video that showed the same group of batteries and can see 8AGC2 380RC 190AH



So that would be 760Ah at 12 volts (1520 Ah at 6 volts)
760Ah x 80% discharged = 608Ah to replace
Assume 175 amps from the alternator at 1600 RPM and 125 amps from the Inverter\Charger (engine generator 3500 watts is AC current so has to pass through charger)
So 300 amps DC max theoretical output = minimum 2 hours to recharge (likely more time needed)

In practice though, people might not take the batteries down that low.

Of course they might just be what was displayed and not the actual batteries used in the E-Trek

I think I'd be happy enough in one We've been touring more - rarely staying more that 2 nights in one place before driving again. Driving a lot would keep the battery bank charged no problem with the combined alternator and engine generator output.

[booster]

Originally Posted by markopolo

I zoomed in on the batteries and rotated the video that showed the same group of batteries and can see 8AGC2 380RC 190AH



So that would be 760Ah at 12 volts (1520 Ah at 6 volts)
760Ah x 80% discharged = 608Ah to replace
Assume 175 amps from the alternator at 1600 RPM and 125 amps from the Inverter\Charger (engine generator 3500 watts is AC current so has to pass through charger)
So 300 amps DC max theoretical output = minimum 2 hours to recharge (likely more time needed)

In practice though, people might not take the batteries down that low.

Of course they might just be what was displayed and not the actual batteries used in the E-Trek

I think I'd be happy enough in one We've been touring more - rarely staying more that 2 nights in one place before driving again.
Driving a lot would keep the battery bank charged no problem with the combined alternator and engine generator output.

Thanks Marco-very interesting.

It does look like they changed the phraseology a bit and now say.

"Electrical power generation is provided by a 3500W generator/alternator mounted to the van’s diesel engine that can charge eight dead auxiliary batteries in only 40 minutes"

Doesn't say it will fill them, only that it will charge them. My 10 amp charger would qualify for that statement!

If the AC draws 8 amps of 110 or about 900 watts, that is 75 amps, so they would use the 608AH in 8.1 hours, and the entire 760AH in 10.1. They say 9 hours of run time.

I think they are playing the "maximum specs" game, listing what the best case is for each individual spec, while ignoring that those things can't happen at the same time.

I think they are going to wind up pretty much like the rest of us on the air conditioning. If you want to keep cool, you will be running the engine almost all the time. I know if we are sitting in the sun, even on an 80* humid day, the AC has to run non stop to come close to keeping up. Get near 100* and it loses ground.

[Mike]

Originally Posted by booster

Roadtrek has more pictures on the website of the e-trek. They have a decent battery pic, but I can't identify the brand or size. They don't look huge though, so it looks like the 1600amps of battery is at 6 volts, not 12.



They also state the engine generator is 3500 watts. That gives 583 amps at 6 volts, so it would take 2 3/4 hours to charge the batteries if they were dead, not 40 minutes as stated. Even if they were at 50% it would be 1.3 hours. And these calcs assume the batteries could and would accept all the amperage, which they won't.

Still too many things that don't add up.

I see 8, what appear to be 6V batteries, but they don't appear to be connected.
Are the cables optional?
Makes you wonder if they are just hastily prepared "PR" pics of random parts or features designed to impress the novice RVer, or those who just aren't interested in what's "under the hood".

[gerrym51]

My prediction is this. the N6 active is a loser and my guess is going to be discontinued. also the RS-E-trek.

Not because there is anything wrong with them-but they just won't catch on.

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by gerrym51

My prediction is this. the N6 active is a loser and my guess is going to be discontinued. also the RS-E-trek.

Not because there is anything wrong with them-but they just won't catch on.

You might be right about the Nissan but the RS E-trek can be fine tuned. A concept to simplify to all electric is not a bad idea but I think they are overreaching a bit.

[markopolo]

Re: the Roadtrek Nissan N6 Active or Nav 6 - I see listed "on sale prices" at $59,000 for a new multipurpose vehicle - some pick-up trucks cost that - so it could have great appeal as a "do-it-all" single vehicle for a young family or as a "more-useful" second vehicle for a retired couple. Seating for up to 7 people - Room to sleep up to 5 people - 7’ 10” exterior height.

But lets keep this thread on topic about the RT RS E-Trek.

I think more than a few of us over estimate what we need in a Class B. Lots of us (probably most) don't head off on "expeditions" in the wild although we might dream of them. As a group, "we" tend to tour around, maybe spend a week in a Nat. Park, go to events, prepare simple meals, continue to use restaurants and coffee shops. Never too far from a plug-in. The E-Trek easily accommodates that type of use.

At every place we stayed this year a plug-in was available. Sometimes I didn't bother to plug-in for one night but it was there. The sites with electricity tended to be better, larger, more level and did not add much to the cost. Everyone's use of and experience will be different of course.

[markopolo]

Maybe the first E-Trek owner:

[youtube:3db88zqa]q7m6ZYyEzVU[/youtube:3db88zqa]

[Mike]

8XAGM batteries must weigh close to 500 pounds alone. Which burns more fossil fuel, running a propane generator and fridge as well as heating the cabin and water, or idling the engine for a half hour every once in a while, burning diesel fuel? I wonder?
The concept is great, still just not sure about the delivery.

[booster]

Originally Posted by Mike

8XAGM batteries must weigh close to 500 pounds alone. Which burns more fossil fuel, running a propane generator and fridge as well as heating the cabin and water, or idling the engine for a half hour every once in a while, burning diesel fuel? I wonder?
The concept is great, still just not sure about the delivery.

I have been trying to find out what that much idling would affect the diesel particulate filter. I seem to remember hearing in the past that idling a lot severely shortened their life, but I can't find it now.

[Mike]

I think markopolo contacted MB in Germany and they gave him some stats on it. I believe they (MB) were not in favor of doing it for the reasons you've cited among others. I think they gave a ballpark figure on how long it would be safe and reasonable to fast idle the engine in one period of time. Might have been earlier on in this thread somewhere. When we/you posed the idling issue the first time. I do recall seeing it somewhere, too.

[markopolo]

Here's what I received from Sprinter Engineering Support (in the US).

Originally Posted by markopolo

Sprinter Engineering Support replied promptly to my inquiry re: extended idling on current model Sprinter vans:

I have contacted Mercedes-Benz on a few occasions and have always been impressed with the speed of their replies.

SCR = Selective Catalytic Reduction

I take this to mean that if you have to idle it for an extended period then, after, you should drive it. Get everything up to temperature, maybe a highway run.
I don't think you should idle it every morning for an hour if you are boondocking say for 5 days. To me, that would equal too much idling. Extended idle -> then drive before another extended idle.

Also, keeping track of the idling might be beneficial for figuring out when to change the engine oil. You probably shouldn't do it on mileage alone if you do extended idling.

Just my thoughts - I am not a mechanic.

[Mike]

Still, international support. Not bad.
So you could burn about 1.5 gallons in a maximum idle period of 3 hours. Is the implication that the higher speed idle is better for the engine, and less likely to cause problems, than the same amount of a low idle? Three hours of idling would get things up to temp, but no load on the engine shouldn't be a problem should it?

[markopolo]

From what I've read, diesels don't get hot at regular idle. I've also read that there is more engine wear at regular idle. And I read something about wet stacking (not too sure I know what that is). I went ahead and added two higher idle speeds to my GMC http://www.classbforum.com/phpBB2/vi...hp?f=12&t=2295 to hopefully avoid those problems.

[Mike]

It looked like some higher idle speeds could be set by pressing the gas pedal and engaging the cruise control? Or did I misread that part of the TM&P thread?
I probably misread it. I slept poorly last night and am getting really groggy now.

[markopolo]

Yes, on newer vehicles fast idle can be controlled via the cruise control but only if fast idle is ordered as an option or programmed in later. I think that is how fast idle is done on Sprinters - through the cruise control. I'm not 100% sure on that.

[booster]

Originally Posted by markopolo

Yes, on newer vehicles fast idle can be controlled via the cruise control but only if fast idle is ordered as an option or programmed in later. I think that is how fast idle is done on Sprinters - through the cruise control. I'm not 100% sure on that.

I just bounced around some of the Sprinter forums to see what the delivery driver types are saying. Along the same lines as Marcos answer from MB, but even more to the minimize idle camp. What really surprised me was that they were talking about needing fast idle speeds in the 1500-2000 rpm range to keep the DPF and EGR clean. Many said it sounds like an airplane taking off at those kind of no load speeds. Wonder how that would go over in the campground for an hour or two? The also listed .3-.5 gallons per hour of fuel at low idle and 1.0 or more at fast idle, so the battery charging or high use with the van engine running could get quite expensive. Many said that it is cheaper to buy an Espy for heat (their major use of the engine running) than run the engine, based on fuel costs and increased maintenance, which was also a surprise because Espy isn't cheap.

[Mike]

Wouldn't have thought that either. You could almost buy another vehicle with that much money.

[gerrym51]

Originally Posted by booster

I just bounced around some of the Sprinter forums to see what the delivery driver types are saying. Along the same lines as Marcos answer from MB, but even more to the minimize idle camp. What really surprised me was that they were talking about needing fast idle speeds in the 1500-2000 rpm range to keep the DPF and EGR clean. Many said it sounds like an airplane taking off at those kind of no load speeds. Wonder how that would go over in the campground for an hour or two? The also listed .3-.5 gallons per hour of fuel at low idle and 1.0 or more at fast idle, so the battery charging or high use with the van engine running could get quite expensive. Many said that it is cheaper to buy an Espy for heat (their major use of the engine running) than run the engine, based on fuel costs and increased maintenance, which was also a surprise because Espy isn't cheap.

MB does not clean small DPF. they fill up and have to be replaced between 125,000 and 150,000 on average. DPF costs over 3,000 dollars to replace