New Roadtrek RS E-Trek

[markopolo]

I'm learning too! Everyday. I've never even seen an E-trek so bear that in mind when reading my comments.
The kW and watts had me thinking like you that it was an AC generator but now I think otherwise.

It makes sense to refer to the auxiliary alternator as a generator. It's less confusing than alternator A & alternator B for example.

[Davydd]

Marko, You admit to guessing and sleuthing in not having actually seen an E-Trek. Surly there are enough E-Treks on the road that someone could explain what is going on. Is Roadtrek trying to keep their E-Trek owner's in the dark too?

[gerrym51]

Originally Posted by Davydd

Marko, You admit to guessing and sleuthing in not having actually seen an E-Trek. Surly there are enough E-Treks on the road that someone could explain what is going on. Is Roadtrek trying to keep their E-Trek owner's in the dark too?

Davydd-i asked Jim Hamill outright on the roadtrek group facebook page-he say the system is proprietary and won't say-however the picture of it in one of the manuals looks like a big alternator-so i think marko is correct.also the phrase 'rev to 2500 rpm to start it' seems to confirm marko's thoughts on the one wire alternator.

also some people who have them still don't know. Roadtrek does not tell them exactly how it works-just the results of it's working

the only thing i can think that is in Roadtreks myterious'black box" is charge control apparatus that allows max charging from the aleternator without overcharging the batteries.

[booster]

IIRC, an etrek owner mentioned that on his, they replaced the original two Progressive Dynamics chargers with a single on from someone else, when he had work done on it. Don't remember details, though so I could be wrong on this. If they really started out with two PD chargers, non temp compensated, straight timer charging, that certainly would not be considered a very sophisticated system when compared to on Outback or other top line system. I think we all remember that Roadtrek also said it was proprietary how they were able to run the AC all night on the batteries and charge them up in 45 minutes after that. We also saw how that turned out for them.

Found it in an earlier post on this thread

"There's a bit of a story there. The original inverter in my E-Trek (May 2013 build) was a 5000w AIMS. I had some warranty issues (not involving the inverter or converters/chargers) that could not be dealt with locally and my dealer is a 6 hour drive north, so in February 2014 RT central sent a driver to my home and returned the E-Trek to the factory (with driver's car in tow). I was impressed, and still am, with the effort that RT put into making me a happy camper. My RT-central contact asked if it was okay to upgrade my E-Trek to the inverter/charger used in the current builds. Sure, said I. When the unit was returned to me a few weeks later the blue AIMS inverter was replaced by a black (smaller) Power Star LW-series 5000w inverter/charger, and the two Progressive Dynamics converter/chargers that were there previously were gone. I was extremely busy with work at the time and did not pursue the details of what motivated the change. (In retrospect, I can't believe I was that busy with other things!) The good news is that all's well, but from my perspective all was well with the electrical system before the upgrade, so I really don't know what motivated the swap. BTW, the Power Star inverter/charger is what is in the 2014 CS Adventurous mentioned in my previous post. It does have a remote above the slider (same one as the AIMS), so I can't comment on the 2015 Agile that you mentioned."

[Davydd]

I want to go all electric with our new Advanced RV so I am on a crash course to understand this stuff. I know I will want to know exactly how it works and will expect answers. I can't accept it is proprietary or "magic."

Every time I read a post on this stuff and I have a question I write it down in an Evernote list to go over with Advanced RV sooner or later. They actually, if I understand, are still actively developing their systems. They had their "ecOasis" Mzungu out there since the first of the year with two publicized extended trips to monitor the performance of their stuff.

[pattonsr]

Davydd,

With an all electric Advanced RV, how does one provide propane for outside grilling with a Weber Q? One could use a Viking composite 17 pound propane tank but I wouldn't want to even carry the composite in the Sprinter for safety reasons.

The optional horizontal propane tank is around 30 pounds and could be used just for outside grills, propane campfires, etc. Do you know if the space that the horizontal tank would take up is used for something else in an all electric?

[bikerbill]

Are composite propane tanks still legal? I thought they recalled them all last year. Wanted to buy one but they had recalled them all due to leakage and fires.

[pattonsr]

The american company had its cylinders recalled and went out of business. Ragasco has been selling composite cylinders for many years in Europe. They are selling them now under the name Viking Cylinders in the United States. Defender Marine is a good place to buy them.

[wincrasher]

I have two of the fiberglass cylinders. They are very nice to have, as you can see the fluid level inside, plus the light weight.

Mine have been in service since 2011, so I'm not too worried about the recall. But I am keeping an eye on them.

[gerrym51]

I went and read about the viking cylinders. In a crash/fire they are designed not to explode like metal cylinders but to melt and just burn off the propane-this seems pretty safe to me. they also don't corrode like metal cyclinders. they are pricey though.

[gerrym51]

will someone explain what this from roadtreks page is saying. Who hooks up to shore power and runs engine to use alternator at same time?



How long does it take to charge the batteries?
When running the inverter, a minimum battery charge will be preserved by a "power save" setting in the inverter that emits a small alarm telling you to charge the batteries. From the point of that alarm, assuming you are not running a lot of appliances at the same time, you can charge your batteries to the point that will allow you to return to normal usage in 30-40 minutes (do not stop charging at that point). If you run the batteries right down with the inverter off, you may need to charge them for up to 2 hours before you can return to normal use.

The battery system holds 9600 watts of power and the answer to the question depends on what all you are using to recharge and what you are running. If you run nothing in the coach you can recharge with just the engine alternator/generators at a rate of up to 3500 watts per hr. If you are plugged in to a 110 volt electrical outlet, you can also be adding another 1400 watts and hour. The solar panels will also be adding up to 245 watts per hour depending on the amount of light available to them. As you can see there are many variables and the choices are yours depending on what you want or need to do. Everything you run in the coach or attached to it will reduce the number of watts going into the batteries. Information on their consumption is usually available on the backs or bottom of most electrical equipment/appliances.


9600 watts is between 800-900 amps at 12 volt depending on how you are measuring.- just wondering in what situation someone woould be hooked up to shore power and running engine for alternator and getting watts from solar panel. ?

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by pattonsr

Davydd,

With an all electric Advanced RV, how does one provide propane for outside grilling with a Weber Q? One could use a Viking composite 17 pound propane tank but I wouldn't want to even carry the composite in the Sprinter for safety reasons.

The optional horizontal propane tank is around 30 pounds and could be used just for outside grills, propane campfires, etc. Do you know if the space that the horizontal tank would take up is used for something else in an all electric?

I'm not carrying the Weber Q but I understand the smaller ones will work off the throw away 1 lb. canisters. We do carry the Coleman two burner stove using those canisters. We also have a BBQ port now with a 12 ft. hose but more than naught have always found that inconvenient so only think about it when the canisters go empty on us as a backup.

The Advanced RV I believe will move all the below floor batteries forward without a generator so the battery compartments on each side of of the basement storage compartment could also be used for storage.



What I hope can be done is to enlarge the compartment on the left slightly to 9.5" wide and vented in order to store a 4.5 lb. one gallon refillable LPG portable canister. With our cooking habits it would last up to about 3 months considering we might go through 2-3 of those 1 lb. throwaway canisters in that period. A standard 20 lb. BBQ type canister I don't think is ever going to fit anywhere and I don't want to have to take the B someplace to have a built in tank filled even though in thinking about it, if for just campground cooking outside one fill would last for almost ever.

PS. Even though I will have the room in the back, I do not want to store a standard 20 lb. BBQ LPG tank there.

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by gerrym51

will someone explain what this from roadtreks page is saying. Who hooks up to shore power and runs engine to use alternator at same time?



How long does it take to charge the batteries?
When running the inverter, a minimum battery charge will be preserved by a "power save" setting in the inverter that emits a small alarm telling you to charge the batteries. From the point of that alarm, assuming you are not running a lot of appliances at the same time, you can charge your batteries to the point that will allow you to return to normal usage in 30-40 minutes (do not stop charging at that point). If you run the batteries right down with the inverter off, you may need to charge them for up to 2 hours before you can return to normal use.

The battery system holds 9600 watts of power and the answer to the question depends on what all you are using to recharge and what you are running. If you run nothing in the coach you can recharge with just the engine alternator/generators at a rate of up to 3500 watts per hr. If you are plugged in to a 110 volt electrical outlet, you can also be adding another 1400 watts and hour. The solar panels will also be adding up to 245 watts per hour depending on the amount of light available to them. As you can see there are many variables and the choices are yours depending on what you want or need to do. Everything you run in the coach or attached to it will reduce the number of watts going into the batteries. Information on their consumption is usually available on the backs or bottom of most electrical equipment/appliances.


9600 watts is between 800-900 amps at 12 volt depending on how you are measuring.- just wondering in what situation someone woould be hooked up to shore power and running engine for alternator and getting watts from solar panel. ?

I'm not sure they are saying at the same time. I think they are just describing all the options for charging your batteries that are available to you and how much they will charge in a given period.

[gerrym51]

davydd- the phrase if you are plugged in you can be adding another 1400 watts.that's what it says?

[booster]

I think they are trying to indicate that all the sources can contribute at the same time to the charging of the batteries, which is technically true I think, when the batteries are mostly discharged as all the sources will not be at their setpoint voltages and in bulk charge. But, you are talking over 50% of capacity charge rate, and into two different voltage banks, I think by tow different charging systems, voltage wise. Even if you could get the full amount from all, I would think heat buildup could be an issue, especially in the 6 batteries packed under the floor. If they have temp compensation like they should, it would cut back the charge voltage pretty quickly, I would think, if the temp correction was on all sources.

The other question would be if they really do allow charging of all the sources at the same time, what are they looking at to prevent over or under charging when all of it reaches absorption voltage? If it is all on absorption timers, it would be nearly impossible to have it be right when on single source and when on multiple sources. If using ending amps, they would interfere with each other between sources. If the engine generator is not through a charger, all bets would be off.

I continue to think that Roadtrek is doing a disservice to their customers by not publishing how their system is intended to work. As was mentioned by others, their competition can find out easily, so that is not a real issue. My fear would be that they don't want folks to know because it may not be a very sophisticated system--remember the two PD chargers that were replaced as mentioned earlier. Yachts have been doing this stuff for many years, with lots of very smart folks doing it, so it is probably very unlikely that some revolutionary system has been developed.

[gerrym51]

Originally Posted by booster

I think they are trying to indicate that all the sources can contribute at the same time to the charging of the batteries, which is technically true I think, when the batteries are mostly discharged as all the sources will not be at their setpoint voltages and in bulk charge. But, you are talking over 50% of capacity charge rate, and into two different voltage banks, I think by tow different charging systems, voltage wise. Even if you could get the full amount from all, I would think heat buildup could be an issue, especially in the 6 batteries packed under the floor. If they have temp compensation like they should, it would cut back the charge voltage pretty quickly, I would think, if the temp correction was on all sources.

The other question would be if they really do allow charging of all the sources at the same time, what are they looking at to prevent over or under charging when all of it reaches absorption voltage? If it is all on absorption timers, it would be nearly impossible to have it be right when on single source and when on multiple sources. If using ending amps, they would interfere with each other between sources. If the engine generator is not through a charger, all bets would be off.

I continue to think that Roadtrek is doing a disservice to their customers by not publishing how their system is intended to work. As was mentioned by others, their competition can find out easily, so that is not a real issue. My fear would be that they don't want folks to know because it may not be a very sophisticated system--remember the two PD chargers that were replaced as mentioned earlier. Yachts have been doing this stuff for many years, with lots of very smart folks doing it, so it is probably very unlikely that some revolutionary system has been developed.

i don't know for sure what they meant. I do see what they wrote. It does not make sense to me.

[booster]

Originally Posted by gerrym51

i don't know for sure what they meant. I do see what they wrote. It does not make sense to me.

It is very possible that is exactly how they want you to look at it. If it can be interpreted in several ways, they can't be held to any of them.

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by gerrym51

davydd- the phrase if you are plugged in you can be adding another 1400 watts.that's what it says?

I know what it said and can understand your question, but this is not the first time Roadtrek has written something about the E-Trek without garbling it up. I mean lets be serious, if you are in a campground with electrical it means most likely an overnight stay to charge the batteries. No one in their right mind knowing the charge rates is going run his engine. I still think they are just outlining the different ways and I don't think they are trying to highlight simultaneous charging. But if they are I guess the marketing department is still promoting their delusional ways.

[pattonsr]

Davydd,

I love your idea of using the left side compartment to hold a 4.25 lb Worthington propane cylinder. Venting would be easy since the compartment is under the Sprinter. Would it be possible to fit two in there? If the existing design needs to be widened slightly, maybe the length could be stretched to fit two in there.

[Davydd]

The box would not be long enough for two as it would have to lengthen about 6" more. It might be possible but I am not pressing my request since I figure the remaining area could store a BBQ hose coiled up and one would be enough for a trip. I don't see a problem widening it about 2" in the direction of the big storage box. I don't think the right battery box can be widened enough because the vehicle exhaust pipe snakes between it and the big storage box and the frame confines it on the other side.