New Roadtrek RS E-Trek

[gerrym51]

Originally Posted by Arlo

I own a 2013 E-Trek (my first RV) but rarely use the AC. An hour here and there while having lunch on the road or to keep the dog cool while we are in a park visitor center, etc. No surprise that there's no problem with that kind of use. Like Davydd, I do my best to avoid situations where using the AC is required. More relevant to the current discussion, I recently talked with the owner (retired engineer) of a 2014 CS Adventurous with the E-Trek package who said that, with fully-charged batteries, his AC lasted for 5 hours before the low-battery warning on the inverter activated. This was a purposeful test to see how close he would get to RT's claims. My understanding is that the compressor was running but other major appliances were off.

I'm still a lurker/learner, but the 5-hour outcome seems roughly consistent with 12v 800ah capacity and a draw of 150a. Thanks to all for providing stimulating food for thought and opportunities for learning. The E-Trek has served me well so far, but I'm loving the discussions of Davydd's next ride!

Roadtrek uses 11000 btu AC. davydds is 15000. 11000 amps used startup about 54 and 12 amps running and 15000 about 64 start up 14 amps running.
i think cycling is like startup so Davydds would use more

[wincrasher]

Depends on the AC unit.

My new Dometic is 13k btu air condition and believe it has a soft start built in. I was able to run it on a 2000 watt Yamaha portable generator. So it must be under 9-10 amps.

I had a travel trailer that had a 2013 vintage Dometic 13k btu air conditioner, and it would stall that generator. That unit was a different model - the shroud was not as low profile as on my van.

[gerrym51]

Originally Posted by wincrasher

Depends on the AC unit.

My new Dometic is 13k btu air condition and believe it has a soft start built in. I was able to run it on a 2000 watt Yamaha portable generator. So it must be under 9-10 amps.

I had a travel trailer that had a 2013 vintage Dometic 13k btu air conditioner, and it would stall that generator. That unit was a different model - the shroud was not as low profile as on my van.

wincrasher- iagree with all you say-however my question is inverter with battery bank and air conditioner and cycling.

Roadtreks system of underhood generator is actually a giant alternator using inverter to change to 120 volts and power appliances including AC.

it's actually a crude form of your Yamaha INVERTER generator. except it uses the vans engine to power the alternator.

PS i remember your post complaining about the loud Onan. just imagine if 2/3 of the time your van engine could run as a far more quiet generator and only use the yamaha when longer term in one place

[Davydd]

I don't know the facts but I have heard this from Advanced RV and another source that even if an 11,000 BTU AC could accomplish the cooling that a 15,000 BTU AC would be more efficient. I would assume in one way the 15,000 would have less run time. Air conditioner doesn't have to work as hard? Most of the extended 24 ft, extended Sprinter Bs I believe have opted for the 13,500 size. I think that is what Great West Van uses. Not sure about ERA.

But we digress here. The real question is how practical? How much driving would it take to restore 400 amps? Booster has been learning a lot about solar efficiency. What would you need to restore 400 amps with solar and how long? Am I to understand you don't charge with solar and driving simultaneously?

But my real question is who in their right mind would want to be out in the wilderness without shore power and be running a generator (or engine idle) and air conditioning simultaneously with a small B? That seems like self-flagellation to me.

Maybe I'll find out. In July we are going to Kansas for three days. Most likely it will be very hot and goes against my principle of smart planning for trips. But we will have an electrical hookup. It's another impromptu B social.

[gerrym51]

Originally Posted by Davydd

I don't know the facts but I have heard this from Advanced RV and another source that even if an 11,000 BTU AC could accomplish the cooling that a 15,000 BTU AC would be more efficient. I would assume in one way the 15,000 would have less run time. Air conditioner doesn't have to work as hard? Most of the extended 24 ft, extended Sprinter Bs I believe have opted for the 13,500 size. I think that is what Great West Van uses. Not sure about ERA.

But we digress here. The real question is how practical? How much driving would it take to restore 400 amps? Booster has been learning a lot about solar efficiency. What would you need to restore 400 amps with solar and how long? Am I to understand you don't charge with solar and driving simultaneously?

But my real question is who in their right mind would want to be out in the wilderness without shore power and be running a generator (or engine idle) and air conditioning simultaneously with a small B? That seems like self-flagellation to me.

Maybe I'll find out. In July we are going to Kansas for three days. Most likely it will be very hot and goes against my principle of smart planning for trips. But we will have an electrical hookup. It's another impromptu B social.

davydd-sportsmobile says the alternator takes predominance over the solar panels when charging. the 2 together are NOT additive. I have no idea why?

this page following the words keep in mind
http://www.sportsmobile.com/5_sys_solar.html

[Mike]

Originally Posted by Arlo

I own a 2013 E-Trek (my first RV) but rarely use the AC. An hour here and there while having lunch on the road or to keep the dog cool while we are in a park visitor center, etc. No surprise that there's no problem with that kind of use. Like Davydd, I do my best to avoid situations where using the AC is required. More relevant to the current discussion, I recently talked with the owner (retired engineer) of a 2014 CS Adventurous with the E-Trek package who said that, with fully-charged batteries, his AC lasted for 5 hours before the low-battery warning on the inverter activated. This was a purposeful test to see how close he would get to RT's claims. My understanding is that the compressor was running but other major appliances were off.

I'm still a lurker/learner, but the 5-hour outcome seems roughly consistent with 12v 800ah capacity and a draw of 150a. Thanks to all for providing stimulating food for thought and opportunities for learning. The E-Trek has served me well so far, but I'm loving the discussions of Davydd's next ride!

Any mention of how (what combination of solar and engine or generator), and how long it took to replenish his batteries?
Btw, welcome. Sounds like you may have the answers to many of the questions we've mostly just theorized about, to date. I expect the techie and engineering contingent on here may want to pick your brain a bit.

[pattonsr]

I do not think the solar controller even knows if one is driving or connected to shore power. It uses its own 3 stage logic based on voltage to decide things. If one is on shore power and the Sprinter is started, do you think that the alternator won't try to send any power to the battery bank.

[booster]

It can be made so that just about any source can lock out others. If I care to, I can have the output from the solar isolate the batteries and at the same time keep the engine alternator from charging the coach batteries. I can also keep the alternator charge away just from the coach batteries. I rarely do it either way, because we still have manual switch that shuts off the separator left over from earlier modifications, so 95% of the time we keep it disconnected, as it is rare that we need the engine for charging batteries. We use the engine alternator the most often for helping the batteries run the microwave when off grid.

We used Blue Sea ACR to do the isolating ( the 3 bank Blue sea charger also isolates all the batteries when charging). All you need to is put 12v on the "start isolate" terminals of the ACR, and it locks it open, so charge voltages can't close it.

[Arlo]

Originally Posted by Mike

Any mention of how (what combination of solar and engine or generator), and how long it took to replenish his batteries?
Btw, welcome. Sounds like you may have the answers to many of the questions we've mostly just theorized about, to date. I expect the techie and engineering contingent on here may want to pick your brain a bit.

No, but I will ask him. My informal experience with my E-Trek is that the batteries recharge very quickly while on the move. It is PFM to me, but what I expected from RT marketing. I rarely take batteries below 2/3 SOC (using idiot lights), but even 30 minutes of driving gets them back near 100%.

Thanks for the welcome. It is intimidating coming out of the shadows in this virtual community. I hope I can eventually make some constructive contributions.

[bikerbill]

FYI, Roadtrek uses a spray foam insulation called Mascoat with an R value of 6. And one thing no one seems to be discussing is what color is your RV. Mine is silver and does a great job of reflecting the sun as does white, but so many people like the dark colors and well, you'll just have to live with more heat build up then.

[gerrym51]

Originally Posted by Arlo

No, but I will ask him. My informal experience with my E-Trek is that the batteries recharge very quickly while on the move. It is PFM to me, but what I expected from RT marketing. I rarely take batteries below 2/3 SOC (using idiot lights), but even 30 minutes of driving gets them back near 100%.

Thanks for the welcome. It is intimidating coming out of the shadows in this virtual community. I hope I can eventually make some constructive contributions.

Arlo-if i could ask-what brand inverter did they give you. in my researches it seems that are using all kinds-some one i read about today got a 2015 Agile with a ZLPower lw3000 and no remote. he has to turn it on himself?

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by bikerbill

FYI, Roadtrek uses a spray foam insulation called Mascoat with an R value of 6. And one thing no one seems to be discussing is what color is your RV. Mine is silver and does a great job of reflecting the sun as does white, but so many people like the dark colors and well, you'll just have to live with more heat build up then.

I've had white and I have had silver. The next one will be a graphic metallic grey. One thing Advanced RV does is fill with R7 blue demin throughout and then cover the floor, roof and walls with Hushmat which is a combination rubberized film and aluminum foil. Aluminum foil is an effective insulative reflector and the rubberized film is a sound deadener. In watching the video of a Roadtrek Sprinter being built there is definitely nothing on the floor as the cabinets were being put down on the bare metal.

Here is an interior shot of an Advanced RV after Hushmat had been installed even up in the cab area. The pink floor is a temporary protective covering.

[Arlo]

Originally Posted by gerrym51

Arlo-if i could ask-what brand inverter did they give you. in my researches it seems that are using all kinds-some one i read about today got a 2015 Agile with a ZLPower lw3000 and no remote. he has to turn it on himself?

There's a bit of a story there. The original inverter in my E-Trek (May 2013 build) was a 5000w AIMS. I had some warranty issues (not involving the inverter or converters/chargers) that could not be dealt with locally and my dealer is a 6 hour drive north, so in February 2014 RT central sent a driver to my home and returned the E-Trek to the factory (with driver's car in tow). I was impressed, and still am, with the effort that RT put into making me a happy camper. My RT-central contact asked if it was okay to upgrade my E-Trek to the inverter/charger used in the current builds. Sure, said I. When the unit was returned to me a few weeks later the blue AIMS inverter was replaced by a black (smaller) Power Star LW-series 5000w inverter/charger, and the two Progressive Dynamics converter/chargers that were there previously were gone. I was extremely busy with work at the time and did not pursue the details of what motivated the change. (In retrospect, I can't believe I was that busy with other things!) The good news is that all's well, but from my perspective all was well with the electrical system before the upgrade, so I really don't know what motivated the swap. BTW, the Power Star inverter/charger is what is in the 2014 CS Adventurous mentioned in my previous post. It does have a remote above the slider (same one as the AIMS), so I can't comment on the 2015 Agile that you mentioned.

[gerrym51]

Originally Posted by Arlo

There's a bit of a story there. The original inverter in my E-Trek (May 2013 build) was a 5000w AIMS. I had some warranty issues (not involving the inverter or converters/chargers) that could not be dealt with locally and my dealer is a 6 hour drive north, so in February 2014 RT central sent a driver to my home and returned the E-Trek to the factory (with driver's car in tow). I was impressed, and still am, with the effort that RT put into making me a happy camper. My RT-central contact asked if it was okay to upgrade my E-Trek to the inverter/charger used in the current builds. Sure, said I. When the unit was returned to me a few weeks later the blue AIMS inverter was replaced by a black (smaller) Power Star LW-series 5000w inverter/charger, and the two Progressive Dynamics converter/chargers that were there previously were gone. I was extremely busy with work at the time and did not pursue the details of what motivated the change. (In retrospect, I can't believe I was that busy with other things!) The good news is that all's well, but from my perspective all was well with the electrical system before the upgrade, so I really don't know what motivated the swap. BTW, the Power Star inverter/charger is what is in the 2014 CS Adventurous mentioned in my previous post. It does have a remote above the slider (same one as the AIMS), so I can't comment on the 2015 Agile that you mentioned.

powerstar is the name of inverter made by ZLPower. his is a lw3000 i may have been wrong about remote. He said he was told he had to go to the inverter and turn it on(he was told to do this). maybe his remote would not work because the unit had not been turned on. By the way what name does it say on your remote-thanks

[Davydd]

Does Roadtrek include any documentation, diagrams, expectations and instructions for using their E-Trek features? In the past I thought they had the most thorough documentation and manuals in the Class B business, and online to boot.

[Arlo]

Yes, as of March 2014 there is a pretty good E-Trek manual. The PDF is available on the RT web site. It is a how-to guide for the user, with little technical detail.

[Arlo]

Originally Posted by gerrym51

powerstar is the name of inverter made by ZLPower. his is a lw3000 i may have been wrong about remote. He said he was told he had to go to the inverter and turn it on(he was told to do this). maybe his remote would not work because the unit had not been turned on. By the way what name does it say on your remote-thanks

My remote is the original from AIMS Power, so it must be compatible with the Power Star LW inverter. I'd be very surprised if a new SS Agile did not have an inverter remote in the control panel. My guess is that the switch on the inverter had to be changed to activate the remote, hence the comment about needing to go to the inverter.

[bikerbill]

Ok Davydd, Roadtrek may or may not have any insulation on the floor. I've been told they do. But what I do know is that the list price for a CS Roadtrek with delivery to a dealer is $150,000. I also know that the Advanced RV is custom built and I do like what they are doing. BUT I do not like their prices which are approaching $165,000++++.

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by bikerbill

Ok Davydd, Roadtrek may or may not have any insulation on the floor. I've been told they do. But what I do know is that the list price for a CS Roadtrek with delivery to a dealer is $150,000. I also know that the Advanced RV is custom built and I do like what they are doing. BUT I do not like their prices which are approaching $165,000++++.

It is very evident from the video Roadtrek put out that the floor is not insulated. Check it out for yourself. On another point. You said Mascoat was R6 insulation. That is hard to explain when it is a thin film coat like heavy paint of ceramic spheres suspended in acrylic. R6 is not possible if that is what they are doing. That clearly was not in their video either since they were building over bare metal as it came from Mercedes Benz. It appears to be more a sound deadener and condensation retarder if used. Give me a cite on that. I can't find it. As an architect I have researched dealt with insulation issues all my career and there are a lot of bogus claims especially with any spray systems.

There are so many differences across the board in every aspect between Roadtrek and Advanced RV in the initial van, materials, systems and quality that a $15,000 difference is a bargain. You may not like it, but I figure when the price of a B gets that high, I want what I want and not something limited to what a converter is only willing to offer. Maybe it is a choice decision between a Cadillac sedan and a Chevy sedan. They both get you there with some certainty but if you can afford either, which would you like better? It is kind of moot for me anyway, the plan layout, and under counter refrigerators and microwaves long ago eliminated Roadtrek from any consideration from me.

[bikerbill]

Ok Davydd. Check out the video at http://www.roadtrek.com/prodpro.aspx around 12 minutes in you can see the floor is not bare metal. Also I have a quote from the Sales Dept at Roadtrek 3 days ago: "It is a spray insulation that we use on the entire shell of the unit called Mascoat, and it has an R value of 6." What can I say? Mascoat web page lists MANY different kinds and uses of Mascoat. And the Roadtrek CS Series is a 7 cu ft fridge like Advanced and the M-Wave is over the fridge. Check it sometime yourself. Maybe you have not been on their web page for a few years but the CS has become very popular and its been around for more than a year. As far as Caddy or Chevy. Nope, Chevy for me. Not to mention I want to join the Roadtrek Club. As a long time owner of a couple of Country Coach 40' m-homes, I've enjoyed the company of going to club rallies, etc and the friends we've met from around the USA. Can't have that with Advanced. And when it comes to "the best damn rv on the market" I've been there. We "had" a 40' customer made Prevost from Country Coach. Sold it last year after 15 years of ownership. I KNOW what quality is and I've had quality and the prices of repairs that go with the quality.