New Roadtrek RS E-Trek

[markopolo]

Originally Posted by booster

The e-trek blog guy has posted an update on his use, and put a link to it on the Yahoo board. Said was off grid for 30 hours using AC at least some and had 12.7 volts showing on the inverter input. Since that is a full battery, I assume the solar was holding up the voltage and charging the batteries at that time. It would be interesting to see what his batteries were actually at. Doesn't the e-trek have a monitor?

That makes sense. I think that we don't have all the info though about when the engine was run - the story does not give precise details.

[Mike]

Seems like Roadtrek didn't count on a bunch of internet RV junkies with some technical acumen, asking these questions. Or they didn't care, or both. If the information on how it all works and does what they say it will isn't readily forthcoming, it probably doesn't exist. They may just be counting on modern marketing theory, where the people buying their stuff, are easily impressed with techno-babble, and not really that concerned with the math, and maybe hoping they may not notice any short comings in performance after they buy one. The customers they're targeting, just want shiny and new, aren't too concerned about price, believe they've bought environmentally friendly, and that's all they care about. There isn't anything wrong with that approach, and it probably works much of the time, considering their market share seems solid, so even though the example of the RS E-Trek is an enigma, people are still buying Roadtreks. Good for them.

Somewhat related aside. Was in Michigan shopping yesterday afternoon, and while driving home on I-69 after dark, we saw a Roadtrek that I couldn't immediately identify. It exited somewhere near Imlay City, and that was the only quick look we got. At first (in the dark) I thought it might have been a Sprinter based model, but as it hit the off ramp, I saw it was too short for that. After doing a quick mental Roadtrek models catalog search, I realized it was the "soccer mom" Roadtrek. An N6 Active, with Michigan plates.

[booster]

Originally Posted by markopolo

I think that we don't have all the info though about when the engine was run - the story does not give precise details.

I agree completely, there seems to be effort made to say as little as possible concerning the details. There is no doubt the guy is on the Roadtrek payroll, so you won't hear any negatives from him. We know Roadtrek monitors the boards and has seen the multiple requests, in multiple places, for more details, but have not responded to any requests, that I know of.

I doubt there will be any detailed information about capability until someone actually gets there hands on one. I think Roadtrek is getting worried about contradicting all the early hype and promises.

[markopolo]

RT might be reluctant able to give the data yet because it seems the components have changed and may change again.
The original promo video showed an Outback FX series inverter/charger - the "first E-Trek sold" shows an AIMS inverter.
The original promo video showed a Power-Mite under-the-hood generator which on FB Jim said that "is not what we are using to generate".
It has changed from "All Electric" to diesel heat and hot water.
Once they settle on the components then maybe they'll produce an Owner Manual which, in the past, listed the parts.
Once I know the parts I can bring out my calculator

[booster]

Rumor has it the e-trek will be at the Minneapolis RV show this week. Now that we can go during the week (finally retired), we will be going to see what it looks like, and what they are giving out for specs. It should be very interesting, and, I hope, informative. Hopefully, they will have a knowledgeable (and talkative) Roadtrek rep there. We haven't been to the show for a while, so it will be nice to see what is new, in case we decide we absolutely must add it to our Roadtrek!

[Davydd]

I was told by Lake Region RVs that they would have the E-Trek at the show along with the Leisure Travel Vans Free Spirit SS with the slider and the Great West Van Legend EX. Should be a good show for looking at Bs. I'll be there most likely Thursday afternoon because that is the day old coots get discounts to get in.

[markopolo]

A few E-trek questions answered:

In response to: Is there two types of E-trek? One with an eFoy and Outback inverter and another with just an AIMS inverter.

Jim replied: Did we build units with outback inverters and Aims inverters. Yes. Both are exceptional, and we reserve the right to use both.

In response to: Does the AIMS inverter have a remote shut off?

Jim repied: Does an Aims inverter have a remote switch. Answer: Yes. Roadtrek uses remote switches. How we do that is proprietary.

(I asked because the 12v 5000w PSW AIMS inverter that I looked up the specs on - downloaded manual from AIMS - shows a 2.1A "no load draw". The 24v 5000w PSW AIMS inverter shows a 3A "no load draw". You want to make sure to turn the inverter off when not in use. I don't know if RT used either model.)

Does an E-Trek have any electric heat or do you have to burn diesel even when plugged in at a campground?

Jim replied: Does the E-trek have any electric heat or does it have to burn diesel all the time? Answer: It has a heat strip, in the AC system. The webasto heater is a several thousand dollar heat and hot water system that is quiet, clean, reliable, and protects itself against freezing. It is the best option for this unit. If lots of electric heat were a better option, we would have inciuded it. Of course, and owner can run a heater from an outlet if they wish when plugged in. But it will draw down the battery if not plugged in, and we think the webasto is far superior in that situation.

In response to: Mike - does your E-Trek have a under-the-hood generator? Are you allowed to post a photo of it?

Jim replied: Can he take a picture of the underhood generator? Nope, not unless he is a contortionist. it is underneath and buried. Not our choice, just where it mounts. It looks like.........an alternator. It is not a 110 welding generator, I promise.

In response to: If you have an under-the-hood generator, are there any controls associated with the operation of it?

Jim replied: Are there any controls associated with the underhood generation. Answer: proprietary. We are not going to tell anybody that.

(I meant in the RV Jim, as in does the RVer have to turn it on and off etc.)

In response to: Mike - does your E-Trek have the "black box" of proprietary controls alluded to on Facebook?

Jim replied: Does he have a black box of proprietary controls? Mikes van has the E-trek controls. How they are mounted and where they are mounted is something people will have to buy one to find out, and take it apart to find out. I am not releasing how this is built. It is proprietary. It is our intellectual property.

In response to: On Facebook Jim recently mentioned the E-Trek has 12 volt, 24 volt and 36 volt systems. That is complex. Most RV techs would not know that and not have any experience with that. Most owners would not know what is what. Are things clearly labeled so that on-the-road repairs can be carried out safely?

Jim replied: The unit has functions that are 12, 24, 36, and 110 volts? How will RV techs work on that, they do not have the knowledge. Answer: Wrong. Completely wrong. Just because a class b owner does not have this knowledge, it does not mean a regular RV tech does not. They work with those low voltages all the time.

and he added: How will owners know what is what? Answer: if they have the electrical knowledge and experience, they will have no issue reading the labels, the panel, the appliances, and using the appropriate meters to test. If they don't, this unit is very high powered, they should not touch it. If they have to ask the question, they probably should not touch the system. RV techs are qualified to do this.

----------------------------------------------------

I'm still curious to know if the under-the-hood generator runs whenever the van engine is running or is it controlled by the RVer. Can it be engaged or disengaged?
Also, I like to know if the on-demand hot water for beverages is electric or diesel powered.
And is the Webasto wired into the 12 volt system separate from the battery disconnect switch to allow the freeze protection to function when 12v power to the coach is turned off?

The Webasto will automatically empty its boiler when the temperature at its drainage valve is less than 43F or 6C when it is in frost protection mode. I'm curious to know that if you left 12v power on in your coach, and left the water pump on could most of your on-board fresh water be dumped? I don't know how that system works but I guess that the boiler gets filled by your water pump which draws water from your fresh water tank.

Those are some questions I'd ask if I was interested in purchasing one.

[booster]

I was a bit surprised by the tone of the answers. It seems he feels he has been asked for too much information, too many times.

[markopolo]

Sept, Oct, Nov, Dec, Jan, and now we're into Feb..... it is time to post the specifications on their website.

http://www.roadtrek.com/specifications_2012.aspx

It's not listed as a model yet........



I'm just pointing out my observations here. I've been a fan of the company since before I bought the '04 190P in 2005. I really came to appreciate the quality of the Roadtrek after I sold it and bought a B+ unit. The quality of the Roadtrek was far superior. The wiring, the plumbing etc. was so much better in the Roadtrek. Top notch.

Jim sure puts in long days and he is very accessible so I fully understand it if he gets a little tired of what could look like criticism. I probably would too

[Mike]

Have you tried sending any of these questions to Service at Roadtrek? They might be more comfortable answering technical queries about a new product, based on their (probable) involvement in the whole process of design and production. They'll have to support the technical Q&A at some point, won't they? I can understand Jim not wanting to get to involved in the technical Q&A end of things. It's probably not always his area of expertise. I'm a little concerned about the repeated "proprietary intellectual property" answers to your questions. They've stated the info is proprietary, and I would hope that they've got legal remedies (patents?) in place to protect them from anyone who might infringe on a unique piece of Roadtrek intellectual property or technology. Not sure what the big deal is.
Anyway, I'm not likely to buy one, so it's all moot to me.

[markopolo]

That's probably a good idea Mike.

Back in September I sent two questions via email to Roadtrek to two people involved in the E-Trek launch. One question asked if there was diesel / electric heat and the other asked if they had any data re: battery discharge and recharge times after overnight air conditioner use. Those questions were never answered.

The latest questions were asked to an E-Trek owner on the Roadtrek Yahoo but were instead forwarded to Jim at Roadtrek who answered them on Facebook. Emailing service at Roadtrek just might work but I think E-Trek questions are still handled by the guys in charge of the project.

[Davydd]

I'll see one tomorrow at the Minneapolis RV show. The proprietary talk, secrecy and vagueness sounds more like a stall to stay ahead of the competition. Unless they've set up a factory and started manufacturing their own components all they are doing is putting other manufacturers' products together in what most likely is in a common way done by others in the past. To me that is not very proprietary that can be protected. Besides a lot of features in the E-Trek were incorporated already by Great West Van and Advanced RV and most likely, Sportsmobile. Roadtrek just has better marketing.

I'm not rushing out to buy one as three things discourage me. One, I've never liked the plan layout of the RS Adventurous it is based on and secondly, my gut still says overkill in systems for dry camping since I have accomplished most all of what they claim you can do with my B, and lastly, I'm highly skeptical about the air-conditioning claims, the practicality of it running off batteries, and the ROI of the idea. They've been too vague about it. Have they field tested? My impression it is a rush to get it out untested.

[markopolo]

A review of the Roadtrek Etrek here: http://www.rv-dreams-journal.com/2013/0 ... ds-mi.html

Again, you see the 1600 amp hour battery bank mentioned. Few reviewers seem to notice that it is 1600 amp hours at 6 volts. The E-trek system is not 6 volts.
When batteries are connected in series you do not add the amp hour ratings together. You add the voltages together.
Two 6 volt 200 amp hour batteries connected together in series turns them into One 12 volt 200 amp hour battery. The amp hour capacity doesn't increase. The voltage increases.

Eight 6 volt 200 amp hour batteries combined together to give 12 volts would have a capacity of 800 amp hours at 12 volts.
Eight 6 volt 200 amp hour batteries combined together to give 24 volts would have a capacity of 400 amp hours at 24 volts.
Eight 6 volt 200 amp hour batteries combined together to give 48 volts would have a capacity of 200 amp hours at 48 volts.

That's just how it is ....................

[Mike]

Maybe someone should tell "Jim"?
Davydd may be right on this one, far too much apparent subterfuge with nothing forthcoming to prove it otherwise. Good evaluation of the "proprietary" comments, too. I hope he's able to share some insight and update us, if he sees one in the flesh tomorrow at the show.

[booster]

We will probably be at the show tomorrow, also. It will be interesting to see who Roadtrek has there to talk to folks. I seem to remember people saying the couldn't even go in the e-trek at early shows. Will they answer questions, or blow you off? Complete literature, or just the same old, same old. They have had plenty of time to address all these questions, and I agree with Davydd, you can't put all of this on proprietary. If it was all that special, someone would have taken one apart, or paid someone off by now.

It is getting more and more likely, at least to me, that they cannot back up many of their claims, so they will hide the actual specs that folks could use to determine that fact. If this is true, it would be a major disappointment for a company with Roadtrek's reputation. You grow a business by treating your customers, and potential customers, with respect and honesty, not deception.

[Davydd]

Here you go with lots of photos from Lake Region RVs...

E-Trek that will be in the Minneapolis RV Show

$131,675

[booster]

Originally Posted by Davydd

Here you go with lots of photos from Lake Region RVs...

E-Trek that will be in the Minneapolis RV Show

$131,675

Very interesting. It almost appears that 6 of the batteries are in the rear and two under the hood? Would they have eliminated the starting battery? Don't know if Sprinter still puts it under the front seat.

[Mike]

Originally Posted by Davydd

Here you go with lots of photos from Lake Region RVs...

E-Trek that will be in the Minneapolis RV Show

$131,675

I'd hope for a finished product for that kind of scratch.
Look like a construction zone in some of the photos.
So, no propane at all. Were there solar panels on the roof?
Great photos regardless, thanks to the photog.

[markopolo]

Nice find Davydd!

[markopolo]

In this particular E-Trek from Roadtrek this is the AIMS branded inverter:
http://www.lakeregionrvs.com/pre_owned_ ... eh=3082045


Aims doesn't list a 5000 watt unit http://www.aimscorp.net/6000-Watt-Pure- ... r-24-Volt/
What looks to be the overseas manufacturer does list a 5000 and a 6000 watt model http://www.yiyen.com/portfolio/apt-seri ... r-charger/

It is not the same as the inverter that Mike Wendland posted a photo of what was in his Etrek.
http://roadtreking.com/wp-content/uploa ... verter.jpg

And it is not the same as this E-Trek with an Outback Inverter and Efoy generator:
http://www.americanrv.com/rv/2013/Roadt ... rek?id=853


So it looks like Roadtrek is very flexible with the components used in the E-trek.