Need your thoughts

[BretMundt]

Hi Guys!

i'm new to the forum.

I've been doing some research about RVs.

As I got into it, I started seeing many RVers recounting about the problems they were having getting their RVs repaired when something failed under warranty.

They were talking about how long they had to wait for parts.

They talked about their RVs not being manufactured very well but the price was going up each year.

In my past experiences when something like situation occurred there always seemed to be an association where the members of the community could turn for help.

So I started searching for an association that would represent RVers.

I found Good Sam, but was disappointed to find out they had sold out to Camping World and were nothing more than a marketing leg now, not the voice of the Rver they once were.

Do you think there needs to be an association where RVers can turn when they can't get manufacturers or dealers to perform?

Ideally, this association would be totally independent of any outside influence so it could truly advocate on behalf of RVers.

Need your thoughts.

Thanks in advance,

Bret

[mikes47]

Originally Posted by BretMundt

Hi Guys! ...

Do you think there needs to be an association where RVers can turn when they can't get manufacturers or dealers to perform?

Ideally, this association would be totally independent of any outside influence so it could truly advocate on behalf of RVers.

Bret

Bret, you are not alone. Check out Chuck Woodbury's editorial:
Soapbox: RV industry continues to disappoint - RV Travel

[BretMundt]

Originally Posted by mikes47

Bret, you are not alone. Check out Chuck Woodbury's editorial:
Soapbox: RV industry continues to disappoint - RV Travel

Thanks! It looks like we have a problem with the RV manufacturers and dealers banding together against their customers.

I'm a degreed engineer...I solve problems...not just manufacturing problems, other problems too.

I'm going to put together the start of a plan to get RV owners to band together to force manufacturers, dealers, suppliers and lawmakers to listen.

I've also been in the construction business for 29 years and have connections with architects/consulting engineers who know how to streamline the development of projects...such as RV parks.

I'm going to reach out to Chuck Woodbury to see if we can work together to make something happen.

I believe that if RV owners gather together and have one voice, we can make things change for the better. We can fight the lobbyists and we can win.

Let me know if you and others are open to such a group.

[silex840]

Great idea! What about the RVIA though? Surely they are on our side? Curious, but perhaps a grassroots movement where RV’ers have regular and local meet-up’s? Akin to car meets in parking lots, but we would meet in parks or other RV friendly places to discuss the RV lifestyle and share our stories.

[BretMundt]

Originally Posted by silex840

Great idea! What about the RVIA though? Surely they are on our side? Curious, but perhaps a grassroots movement where RV’ers have regular and local meet-up’s? Akin to car meets in parking lots, but we would meet in parks or other RV friendly places to discuss the RV lifestyle and share our stories.

I'm open to any and all ideas.

Regarding the RVIA - they are complicit in hiding the quality issues that exist in the manufacturing of RVs. From what I understand, the board of the RVIA has 2 people from the top manufacturers on it.

The RVIA sells the manufacturers the approved seal that goes on all RVs..it says the RV was built to a particular standard, but nobody has access to the standard.

In my opinion, RVIA is part of the problem.

I like the ideas of meet ups.

One thing that I believe would be great is if the organization was involved in developing RV parks. If membership was big enough, the development could be funded by the organization which would make the parks debt free when they were done.

So the park fees would only need to be high enough to support on site personnel and maintenance.

The reason there aren't many parks being built is because it isn't economically feasible.

The Return on Investment is 15 years and no investor is going to invest there when there are so many other options unless they can charge over $100 per night.

And what RVer wants to pay more than $100 per night?

I think the organization would need to guided by the members who would vote on issues that were important each quarter.

What you do you think?

[wincrasher]

This thread is so naive and detached from the history of the RV industry, it would be hilarious, but is sad nonetheless.

[Davydd]

We were just at Advanced Fest in Willoughby, OH. About 50 vans came and we had two days of workshops on every subject and it was give and take and Advanced RV listens to their customers and is willing to incorporate customer’s ideas. I can’t complain. I just got out of a two hour meeting on a radically different van.

[BretMundt]

Originally Posted by wincrasher

This thread is so naive and detached from the history of the RV industry, it would be hilarious, but is sad nonetheless.

Please elaborate.

Thanks!

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by Davydd

We were just at Advanced Fest in Willoughby, OH. About 50 vans came and we had two days of workshops on every subject and it was give and take and Advanced RV listens to their customers and is willing to incorporate customer’s ideas. I can’t complain. I just got out of a two hour meeting on a radically different van.

What was the consensus regarding the Volta system? Will it become standard for ARV or will it be an option in place of the 12V Delco setup? And what other innovative changes were discussed? Operators are standing by.

[BretMundt]

Originally Posted by Davydd

We were just at Advanced Fest in Willoughby, OH. About 50 vans came and we had two days of workshops on every subject and it was give and take and Advanced RV listens to their customers and is willing to incorporate customer’s ideas. I can’t complain. I just got out of a two hour meeting on a radically different van.

That's great! They are apparently the exception to the rule. This is from all the feedback I'm getting from other RV owners.

Your experience should be the norm.

I'll be willing to bet that Advance will really grow in the coming years as more and more RV owners demand higher quality.

[Davydd]

Advanced RV is currently oferring three battery options.

- The Elite Power Solutions 12v LiFePo4 batteries with the Delco alternator.
- The Valence 12v LiFeMgPo4 batteries with the Delco alternator.
- The 48v Volta system.

For many reasons the Valence system looks the most intriging to me. They are kicking around other options as well. Their new air conditioner is truly quiet as advertised.

Their new building is 2-1/2 times larger just down the street from their old. Mike Neundorfer stated they still don’t foresee more than 48 Class B’s per year in the way they build individually for each customer. That’s one reason they are diversifying with rentals, and offering to install VB Air, levelers, and air conditioners on other brands. The Metrivan was another venture.

The shorty Sprinter (144 WB) may take off. So far they are totally custom with customer input. That’s what I met with them today and will do some mocking up in a raw van tomorrow. It will be an ongoing process. They had suggestions beyond what I was proposing.

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

Bret, my opinion to choose Roadtrek was that they've been in the business of exclusively making Class B's continuously since 1974.... that's all they do.... other companies make Class A's, Class B's and C's..... and in 43 years... Roadtrek has just recently passed their 30,000 conversion van... that's NOT a lot of units...... Roadtrek is less than 1,000 conversions per year..Good luck...

[BBQ]

Originally Posted by Roadtrek Adventuous RS1

Bret, my opinion to choose Roadtrek was that they've been in the business of exclusively making Class B's continuously since 1974.... that's all they do.... other companies make Class A's, Class B's and C's..... and in 43 years... Roadtrek has just recently passed their 30,000 conversion van... that's NOT a lot of units...... Roadtrek is less than 1,000 conversions per year..Good luck...

But.... Roadtrek has changed ownership twice in recent years.

They have also changed their design philosophy; they are not the "quality workmanship RV" anymore. The 2008 market crash has changed everything, not just to RT, but to the whole RV industry. There are few survivors.

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

BBQ-


OK, they were originally Home and Park in 1974...then officially named Roadtrek in 1980.. later merged with the Erwin Hymer Group in 2016......

What exactly are you saying... that the quality went downhill in 2016?? Or, because of the recession in 2008... quality went down.? Explain... what are your facts?

As for me, I think my 2012 RS Adventurous is pretty nice..as a production RV...
Are there other companies that build fancier RV'S...of course.. probably Leisure Travel?

What's your model?? And, why don't you tell us who you think are the survivors?
By the way... Roadtrek offers a six years unlimited mileage warranty on new units... now why do you think a company that builds substandard products would do that???

I'm not advocating purchasing a new model, but, 6 years is pretty generous...



http://www.roadtrek.com/about/

[booster]

You missed an owner. They were also purchased by an investment/turnaround group years before Hymer. The booted the remnants of the original family owners a while later and gave all the marbles to Jim Hammill. Lots of things have gone down hill since, from quality to customer service, to generally poor treatment of anyone who disagrees with Hammill.

[ponti33602]

Originally Posted by BretMundt

That's great! They are apparently the exception to the rule. This is from all the feedback I'm getting from other RV owners.

Your experience should be the norm.

I'll be willing to bet that Advance will really grow in the coming years as more and more RV owners demand higher quality.

I am not sure many RV's believe they can afford a new Roadtrek let alone one built by Advanced RV.

FWIW we had the means to buy a Class B made by Advanced and chatted with them a few times but our fiscal sense kicked in and we finally decided to purchase a RT, Short WB Agile instead. We came in right around 20% off MSRP for a '17 which translated to just over $120K ($150.7K MSRP) and we paid cash.

For Advanced, we were talking closer to ~$260K for a better coach build for sure...but I am not sure it is/was $140K better for our purposes.....just MHO.

So you may be right that they may be in high demand in coming years, but should we hit a bump in the economy you might see folks pulling back on that type/high of investment even if one can afford to pay the price. That is what our decision came down to........

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

Bob..I think you made a good decision. There's a point of diminishing returns with anything.
These are TOYS, not investments....we bought ours a year ago in May 2017 for $79k...I had to put some money into it, some necessary, tires, batteries, few minor repairs... and some extras..new sound system, enhanced backup camera, solar panel etc.

In one year we put 14,000 miles on the rig, we're enjoying it.

As for quality, I don't agree with BBQ.... I think it's fine.my opinion.

I have seen some videos showing some quality control issues... I'm sure you can find that anywhere..I saw someone blast a Class B Airstream once....so what.

Good luck with your rig. It's all about enjoying the thing.

Originally, we were financing it .. but , once I started thinking about the interest and paying twice for the rig I decided to pay it off.

Question, a lot of people who have these conversions upgrade the suspension...the van was built as a cargo van and converted...which means that the constant weight of the kitchen, plumbing, cabinets and generator all works to make the original shocks and suspension a little weak... On my USA trip, we encountered a lot of situations with high winds, uneven roads and getting sucked into the downdraft of big rigs when they passed us..

I've been told that a lot of people who purchased new rigs even upgraded the original shocks.. next week I'm going to get an upgraded suspension, new shocks, sway bar and tracking bar. My very trustworthy RV shop who works on my rig told me I need new shocks on my 2012 with 40,000 miles.. because of the excellent relationship I have with them... I believe them....I'm getting a lot of pitching and side to side motion whenever I enter driveways or uneven pavement... cabinets rattle like an earthquake...

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

Booster, by the way, being a new owner. I had a couple of questions about the Roadtrek after I purchased it, I called them and they answered all of my questions, no problem and at one point called me to follow up....I don't consider that to be "bad customer service" ...if you know what I mean......of course, people are always the problem, maybe the person you contacted was not as professional as the one I spoke to...???

[ponti33602]

Originally Posted by Roadtrek Adventuous RS1

Bob..I think you made a good decision. There's a point of diminishing returns with anything.
These are TOYS, not investments....we bought ours a year ago in May 2017 for $79k...I had to put some money into it, some necessary, tires, batteries, few minor repairs... and some extras..new sound system, enhanced backup camera, solar panel etc.

In one year we put 14,000 miles on the rig, we're enjoying it.

As for quality, I don't agree with BBQ.... I think it's fine.my opinion.

I have seen some videos showing some quality control issues... I'm sure you can find that anywhere..I saw someone blast a Class B Airstream once....so what.

Good luck with your rig. It's all about enjoying the thing.

Originally, we were financing it .. but , once I started thinking about the interest and paying twice for the rig I decided to pay it off.

Question, a lot of people who have these conversions upgrade the suspension...the van was built as a cargo van and converted...which means that the constant weight of the kitchen, plumbing, cabinets and generator all works to make the original shocks and suspension a little weak... On my USA trip, we encountered a lot of situations with high winds, uneven roads and getting sucked into the downdraft of big rigs when they passed us..

I've been told that a lot of people who purchased new rigs even upgraded the original shocks.. next week I'm going to get an upgraded suspension, new shocks, sway bar and tracking bar. My very trustworthy RV shop who works on my rig told me I need new shocks on my 2012 with 40,000 miles.. because of the excellent relationship I have with them... I believe them....I'm getting a lot of pitching and side to side motion whenever I enter driveways or uneven pavement... cabinets rattle like an earthquake...

Yup, agree on the your quality opinion too.........not seeing issues. People swear by PleasureWay. We checked out their SS version as well and we didn't see anything we liked better other than the kitchen on the opposite side.....we actually thought the quality was worse than our Agile. It felt like the kitchen cabinetry was from the 70's........at least Roadtrek is from the 80's. Absolutely hated the flooring in the PW and what are they thinking with the piece of carpet in the rear? No offence to all the happy PW owners.......obviously this is only my opinion on my preferences.

Please post the suspension info and if you are comfy sharing ballpark prices. I do not have anything to go on but we do all drive trucks. Would like to see what you notice after the upgrade.

[booster]

Originally Posted by Roadtrek Adventuous RS1

Booster, by the way, being a new owner. I had a couple of questions about the Roadtrek after I purchased it, I called them and they answered all of my questions, no problem and at one point called me to follow up....I don't consider that to be "bad customer service" ...if you know what I mean......of course, people are always the problem, maybe the person you contacted was not as professional as the one I spoke to...???

I didn't say that we had lots of problems, but we have a 2007 and did have some. Top one for bad service for us was that even though the unit was new off the lot, where it had been for a while, neither Roadtrek, the dealer, or Exide would warrant bad batteries that we found out about within weeks of taking it home, when they would not hold charge.

If you didn't have an issue that needed taking care of, I would expect you would get better treatment than folks that may be trying to get warranty on expensive stuff like 8 AGM batteries. There have been lots of very irritated customers since the release of the etrek timeframe.