Navigation & GPS on Pleasure Way Ascent

[avanti]

Originally Posted by Roadtrek Adventuous RS1

My back up camera is made by Rydeen Mobile Electronics, its an HD camera with three viewing angles

I've been wondering about "HD" backup cameras. I see them advertised regularly, but I don't understand. Are they really "high definition"? That would imply incompatibility with the yellow NTSC coax connections and HDMI or some other high-res (generally digital) link. But, all the ones I see look like they are using standard NTSC wiring. Are there really "HD" backup cameras, or is that just industry hype for "really good camera"?

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by Roadtrek Adventuous RS1

We don't have a bike rack...in fact, I had a very long conversation with Yakima directly... they talked me out of the bike rack I wanted.... seems like the rack would "bend" with the stress of the vibration on the rear end of the Sprinter 170 wheelbase. I wanted the rack that would "swing away" for easy access … AND, the "emergency exit" doors of the van are in the back!


I didn't want to have to remove and reinstall the bike rack everywhere I go.
Yakima only sells two racks approved for the Sprinter 170 and neither of them swing away...they basically talked me out of it, at least they were honest.


My back up camera is made by Rydeen Mobile Electronics, its an HD camera with three viewing angles … and professionally installed … NOT on the license plate... and I have rear proximity sensors on the back of the van to make sure I'm not getting too close to anything with an audible alarm.
Also have a front camera... not pictured.


Here's some photos,

The rear profile of a class B pretty much requires that a bike rack will have a hitch mount. Because our bikes have step in frames without top tubes we use a platform bike mount which IMO is the best way to go in any event. These racks typically will hinge down sufficiently to permit opening the rear cargo doors to exit or to access under couch storage. We chose a Kuat NV which has been the most stable bike rack we have ever used. Yakima makes good stuff but before I would give up on the idea I would also talk to Thule, Kuat and 1UP-USA.

What model Rydeen are you using and what do you mean by three viewing
angles? How do you select them?

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

Originally Posted by avanti

I've been wondering about "HD" backup cameras. I see them advertised regularly, but I don't understand. Are they really "high definition"? That would imply incompatibility with the yellow NTSC coax connections and HDMI or some other high-res (generally digital) link. But, all the ones I see look like they are using standard NTSC wiring. Are there really "HD" backup cameras, or is that just industry hype for "really good camera"?

That is incorrect. Here's a link to Rydeen Mobile Electronics, yes, they're really HD... the model I have is the CM180sw on the rear, and a CM-HD-2 on the front of the vehicle.... Take a look at this website;


MINy SuperWide Backup Camera | Rydeen Mobile Electronics

All of this was professionally installed, when I put the vehicle in reverse, the camera lights up the rear screen on the Kenwood. The Kenwood can accommodate two cameras and there's a switch to see the front of the vehicle when I'm pulling into a spot. The default is the rear view when the van is in reverse.


All of this was wired underneath the chassis, no wires show anywhere.... you just see the cameras mounted front and rear.... this is NOT a DIY project unless you know EXACTLY what you're doing.

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

MINy HD3 Backup / Forward Facing Camera | Rydeen Mobile Electronics


Are these expensive, you bet... including installation.... but, you want something good to see where you're going...


My night vision with these things is amazing,

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

You can find them here;

https://echomaster.com/catalog/rear-sensors/

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by avanti

I've been wondering about "HD" backup cameras. I see them advertised regularly, but I don't understand. Are they really "high definition"? That would imply incompatibility with the yellow NTSC coax connections and HDMI or some other high-res (generally digital) link. But, all the ones I see look like they are using standard NTSC wiring. Are there really "HD" backup cameras, or is that just industry hype for "really good camera"?

Picky picky picky! Sure, characterizing these displays as HD is a misnomer. Further, even if their resolution satisfied HD specs, it would be overkill because on a 5-7 inch display, the difference between HD and non-HD wouldn't be detectable to 99.9% of viewers. That said, current generation backup cameras using CCD video with a digital wireless link to a remote display generates a sharp and accurate color rendered day and night image that's a pleasure to view.

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

Originally Posted by cruising7388

The rear profile of a class B pretty much requires that a bike rack will have a hitch mount. Because our bikes have step in frames without top tubes we use a platform bike mount which IMO is the best way to go in any event. These racks typically will hinge down sufficiently to permit opening the rear cargo doors to exit or to access under couch storage. We chose a Kuat NV which has been the most stable bike rack we have ever used. Yakima makes good stuff but before I would give up on the idea I would also talk to Thule, Kuat and 1UP-USA.

What model Rydeen are you using and what do you mean by three viewing
angles? How do you select them?

Interesting.... I actually asked the representative at Yakima about a platform bike rack where the wheels are sitting on the "platform" like I've seen on Metro buses... he said... that would be way worse on the 170 Sprinter... kept getting back to the very long wheelbase....


What model Sprinter do you have and what's the wheelbase on your vehicle?


We have the dual wheels on the 170 inch platform... Apparently, this is NOT an issue on the 140 inch wheelbase Sprinter....

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

Originally Posted by cruising7388

Picky picky picky! Sure, characterizing these displays as HD is a misnomer. Further, even if their resolution satisfied HD specs, it would be overkill because on a 5-7 inch display, the difference between HD and non-HD wouldn't be detectable to 99.9% of viewers. That said, current generation backup cameras using CCD video with a digital wireless link to a remote display generates a sharp and accurate color rendered day and night image that's a pleasure to view.

Here's the actual specs on the camera on my rig;

CM-180SW
• Resolution (TV LINES): 580
• Minimum illumination: <0.1Lux
• Angle: 180°
• Water-proof
• Image: Mirror / Standard Selectable
• Parking Guidance Line (Only On Full 180° View)

As for wireless....... My system is hard wired directly from the camera to the monitor on the Kenwood DNX 893S

I understand people will do things differently... All about choices..

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by Roadtrek Adventuous RS1

You can find them here;

https://echomaster.com/catalog/rear-sensors/

What camera do they make with multi viewing angles?

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by Roadtrek Adventuous RS1

Here's the actual specs on the camera on my rig;

CM-180SW
• Resolution (TV LINES): 580
• Minimum illumination: <0.1Lux
• Angle: 180°
• Water-proof
• Image: Mirror / Standard Selectable
• Parking Guidance Line (Only On Full 180° View)

As for wireless....... My system is hard wired directly from the camera to the monitor on the Kenwood DNX 893S

I understand people will do things differently... All about choices..

How do you select the images? Can you change it from 180 degrees to a different view angle?

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

Originally Posted by cruising7388

What camera do they make with multi viewing angles?

CM-180SW has three different views... normal, split and extra wide...

I have a switch on the dash to change it... handy. Only one view gives the guidelines however.


Works fine for me.... plus, the proximity sensors really help getting too close to anything is very helpful. The two systems work beautifully together.

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by Roadtrek Adventuous RS1

Interesting.... I actually asked the representative at Yakima about a platform bike rack where the wheels are sitting on the "platform" like I've seen on Metro buses... he said... that would be way worse on the 170 Sprinter... kept getting back to the very long wheelbase....


What model Sprinter do you have and what's the wheelbase on your vehicle?


We have the dual wheels on the 170 inch platform... Apparently, this is NOT an issue on the 140 inch wheelbase Sprinter....

''

We put two 60 lb. bikes on the Kuat NV Platform rack and alternate between using it on a Subaru Outback and our Roadtrek 210 which is on the Chevy Express 3500 platform with the 155 inch extended wheel base. We've never had a problem in either case. The lowest point is the bottom side of the hitch receiver and every part of the rack is above that point. Now and then when exiting or entering a short steep driveway, there is a scrape, but the rack is not involved. It's the underside of the hitch receiver. My guess is that our hitch receiver, if anything, is lower to the pavement than it is on a Sprinter. My suggestion is that you contact other platform rack builders and get some more opinions.

I like the Kuat because it has a device that tightens the rack tongue into the hitch receiver to the point that there is virtually no swaying when underway.

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

Originally Posted by cruising7388

''

We put two 60 lb. bikes on the Kuat NV Platform rack and alternate between using it on a Subaru Outback and our Roadtrek 210 which is on the Chevy Express 3500 platform with the 155 inch extended wheel base. We've never had a problem in either case. The lowest point is the bottom side of the hitch receiver and every part of the rack is above that point. Now and then when exiting or entering a short steep driveway, there is a scrape, but the rack is not involved. It's the underside of the hitch receiver. My guess is that our hitch receiver, if anything, is lower to the pavement than it is on a Sprinter. My suggestion is that you contact other platform rack builders and get some more opinions.

I like the Kuat because it has a device that tightens the rack tongue into the hitch receiver to the point that there is virtually no swaying when underway.

Cruising...

YES,. I understand...

The representative at Yakima said that the problems they've been having are all based on the 170 inch wheelbase...has to do with long span puts a lot of pressure on the receiver sleeve that goes into the receiver on the back of the van...in addition, some of the bracket holders on the arms of the rack have broken off... causing instability while underway risking losing the bicycles off the back of the vehicle or causing damage if they moved around too much..to the bicycles or the van!

Sure, I'll contact other companies... but, if I get the same answer I'll let you know.... otherwise, I'm skipping the entire thing....

Oh, one more thing...the emergency exit is a real issue....I would say that's a pretty big problem...

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by Roadtrek Adventuous RS1

CM-180SW has three different views... normal, split and extra wide...

I have a switch on the dash to change it... handy. Only one view gives the guidelines however.


Works fine for me.... plus, the proximity sensors really help getting too close to anything is very helpful. The two systems work beautifully together.

The proximity sensors are a real plus. They will pay for themselves many times over for the damage they prevent.

I notice that the spec for viewing angle on your camera is 180 degrees which is essentially fish eye. This field may be fine for viewing something close aboard but for more distant objects, I second Booster's concern that this wide field of view produces too much distortion, and typically by the time you even see a tiny vehicle image on the display, the vehicle is pretty much on top of you. A narrower field of view for distant viewing would mitigate this and providing the user a way to alter it when desired would be a welcome addition.

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

Well, the camera works fine for me... and I'm extremely careful backing up..and only do that when necessary at a crawl...

According to this definition below .....you would have to be less than 100 degrees ... by the way, the distortion is NOT as bad as you might imagine...plus there's three views....

See this below;


"The angle of view of a fisheye lens is usually between 100 and 180 degrees while the focal lengths depend on the film format they are designed for. Mass-produced fisheye lenses for photography first appeared in the early 1960s and are generally used for their unique, distorted appearance."

[avanti]

Originally Posted by Roadtrek Adventuous RS1

That is incorrect. Here's a link to Rydeen Mobile Electronics, yes, they're really HD...

What is incorrect?

The only claim I made was that if it is HD, then it can't be using NTSC via the yellow RCA connector. This is true by definition. They are different kinds of "High Definition", but they all imply "better than NTSC".

Beyond that, I am not judging, just asking questions. If the camera is HD, then it has to be using some signaling system other than NTSC, and am curious what it is. The only two plausible alternatives are HDMI or component video such as YPbPr. Do your cameras use something like this? If not, they aren't HD. The spec you reference says that the resolution (TV LINES) is "580". Unfortunately, they don't specify whether this is vertical or horizontal resolution. I am guessing it is vertical. NTSC can (barely) do that. It CANNOT do 580 horizontal, since the NTSC spec is fixed at 480 lines.

As I said in my original post, I am well aware that many of these manufacturers CLAIM "HD". I am also aware that there are some extremely high-quality cameras and displays. I am just curious on a technical level whether any of them are truly HD. This is important to understand, because almost all head units have NTSC camera inputs, and a real HD camera would not be compatible with them.

My GUESS is that @cruising7388 is correct and these aren't really HD, just really good NTSC, but that is the question I am trying to ask.

The other alternative is that the camera itself IS HD, but that there is some kind of image processor at the camera end that processes these fish-eye images (a 180-degree camera would be extremely distorted without post-processing) and down-samples it to NTSC over the wire. This could be how your "3 angles" feature works.

I don't doubt that your system is very good. I am just trying to understand how it works and whether or not it is literally "HD".

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

Well then...it was sold to me as high definition..... beyond that, I invite you to call Rydeen Mobile Electronics and speak with them....

YES, my system is excellent....I'm very pleased with it.. that's the last thing I have to say about this subject.