NADA pricing

[booster]

I figured I would bring this up, as I see it all the time when folks advertise their class B's to sell them. I understand that they want to get as much as they can, but I do feel they should understand the NADA pricing system and accurately represent that pricing in the advertising.

Here is what NADA says about how to use their pricing tools: It is from their FAQ section.

"When selecting optional equipment for my RV during the pricing/valuation process, do I select standard equipment as well?

No. You only need to select the options/features of your recreation vehicle on the Optional Equipment page that did not come standard on your vehicle (unless otherwise noted) and that were added after the purchase. Standard equipment is specific to your model/trim level and NADAguides will automatically factor this into the price of your vehicle on the price report page. It is important to note that standard and optional equipment may vary between manufacturers. Visit the RV Center for all your RV needs."

But--you constantly see people listing the NADA pricing they did that include all kinds of standard things as options, with add on prices. A Roadtrek comes with AC, furnace, cruise control, TPMS, full body paint etc, but you see them added on all the time. The list of options NADA uses is pretty much the same for all motorhomes, so not all options apply. For instance, when was the last time you saw a class B without a driver's side door? But you see folks adding value for it, even though it is undoubtedly not an option.

There is a prime example of it on ebay right now:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2010-Roadtre...pt=RVs_Campers

They have the NADA inflated by many, many thousands of dollars, and I have no idea how many people realize it.

Definitely a pet peeve of mine

[jrobe]

It is probably irrelevant. In the end it will sell for exactly the price that someone is willing to pay for it.

[booster]

Originally Posted by jrobe

It is probably irrelevant. In the end it will sell for exactly the price that someone is willing to pay for it.

I agree if the folks buying know what they are doing, but I worry about the first time buyers.

New buyers are going to assume the NADA is accurate, at least to the point of consistent, but not necessarily for price, just like cars. They won't expect manipulation, and won't check it on their own, especially if the seller has a printout.

If the newbies ask on a forum, or friends, they will get told the NADA tends to be low for B's, but I have never seen anyone told the NADA may be manipulated.

They may pass on a accurately portrayed Brand A that is listed at a $3K over NADA, and jump on a Brand B (or A) that is being sold at NADA or under, based on the information they have that the NADA is usually low. They think they got a good deal, but they don't realize that the one they went after had the NADA inflated by $5K or more, so they actually got a worse deal. Of course this assumes all other stuff equal, but point is the bad valuation could really cost folks, do to manipulation by the seller.

We are very careful consumers on everything we buy, but this could have easily happened to us when we went looking for our first time B purchase. I didn't find out about how NADA does their pricing until after we bought, so it would have been too late. We came out OK because ours was a new, model year old, one off the dealer lot.

[markopolo]

Link to Nada values for RV's http://www.nadaguides.com/RVs

Anyone buying or selling used should make sure to do some online research. Pay too much and it will hurt you later. List too high and it won't sell. With three used RVs bought then sold, two were good, no regrets on the purchase or selling price. One was bad financially, I paid too much and took a hit when I sold it. Live and learn.

[Mike]

caveat emptor, whenever you buy anything, new or used? If it's brand new, you usually have some warranty which may or may not be enforced by law. Used, you're pretty much on your own.
If you're made aware of the NADA pricing guide, and you understand how it works, you should be OK, providing whatever you're looking at is listed. I might ask the vendor "what optional equipment does it have" and measure the reply against what the NADA guide says is standard and what's optional. If we were to ever sell ours, it's got a few add ons that might or might not affect it's resale value. It's up to the buyer to determine that, and as has been said before, it will sell for whatever someone is willing to pay for it. Even if you buy brand new, there are some significant differences in how some dealers interpret MSRP versus their OTD pricing. That was pretty obvious last year when we bought the trailer.

[Davydd]

I suspect the basic problem with NADA pricing on Bs is there simply is not enough data and sales to establish any reliable estimates. I know when I traded in my 2005 Pleasure-way Plateau Sprinter at Lake Region RVs Dale, the owner, did not even hesitate to tell me he thought the NADA prices were way too low just based on his experience through his one dealership. I'm thankful for his honesty.

[Mike]

Great point. I live in what I would now call "Roadtrek country" here, after meandering aimlessly through the city, during our orientation phase after we moved. I've never seen so many Roadtreks in such a small geographic area, in every shape, size, model, age, and chassis. Very few are for sale, afaik, which supports the lack of used and resale data to establish any trends in pricing. Or, you could maybe define it as true free market economics, based pretty much on supply and demand.

[booster]

"If you're made aware of the NADA pricing guide, and you understand how it works, you should be OK"

Exactly correct, with an emphasis on "understand how it works", which I don't think many do. How many folks would doubt a printout from NADA that a seller had that listed exactly what was on the van, with prices? How many folks here know/knew how it worked with the options? How many newbies would know it is different than with cars.

My big point is that folks like the ebay seller are being highly unethical by manipulating the NADA price they generate. The ebay one says he is the original owner so he knows what was optional and what wasn't. He also has to know that he is not supposed to add things in that were standard equipment because there is a big notice of that on the screen where you generate the NADA price. IMO, he chose to fudge the data for his own enrichment. Certainly, it is buyer beware, but that doesn't excuse dishonest behavior, again IMO.

[jrobe]

Why don't you make the guy an offer if you are interested in his van? It looks nice. Then you will find out what he really wants for it. My guess is that he doesn't want to sell it too bad and will only part with it for a premium price.

I agree with you that the guy isn't a very good businessman. I would have a much better listing than that if it was mine.

[Mike]

Originally Posted by booster

"If you're made aware of the NADA pricing guide, and you understand how it works, you should be OK"

Exactly correct, with an emphasis on "understand how it works", which I don't think many do. How many folks would doubt a printout from NADA that a seller had that listed exactly what was on the van, with prices? How many folks here know/knew how it worked with the options? How many newbies would know it is different than with cars.

My big point is that folks like the ebay seller are being highly unethical by manipulating the NADA price they generate. The ebay one says he is the original owner so he knows what was optional and what wasn't. He also has to know that he is not supposed to add things in that were standard equipment because there is a big notice of that on the screen where you generate the NADA price. IMO, he chose to fudge the data for his own enrichment. Certainly, it is buyer beware, but that doesn't excuse dishonest behavior, again IMO.

Yep, there's bad people everywhere it seems.
Is there a way on e-Bay that you can report a fraudulent or misleading ad? Maybe you should report the seller, if you think he's knowingly misleading people by his possible misuse of the NADA pricing guide tool.
NADA does have a pretty comprehensive disclaimer about using their website as anything but a reference tool, and basically that it's up to the user to determine the worth of the info they might supply, be it opinions or otherwise.
"All values and related content contained within this NADAguides product are the opinions of NADAguides’ editorial staff and may vary from vehicle to vehicle. Valuations will vary depending on market conditions, vehicle condition, specifications or other circumstances that may be particular to a vehicle transaction or parties involved with the transaction. NADAguides values and products may not be copied or reproduced, nor distributed for reasons that may exploit the information content or the company. NADAguides, its subsidiaries and affiliated entities, make no warranty express or implied, including without limitation, any warranty of merchantability or fitness for a particular purpose and they assume no responsibility for the accuracy of the values or other information published herein. NADAguides, its subsidiaries and affiliated entities, will not be liable for any special, incidental or consequential damages resulting from any use of this publication, including, without limitation, lost profits. No part of this may be reproduced, stored in a retrieval system, or transmitted, in any form or by any means, electronic, mechanical, photocopying, recording or otherwise without prior written permission of NADAguides."
Maybe the e-Bay guy has broken some other laws by publishing it as part of his ad?