Moog 81012

[jjrbus]

Looking through an old thread on suspension by Markopolo. Floorman reported a 2 inch height increase on a 02CRT190P by adding Moog 81012 front coil springs and other suspension parts. I have been mulling front springs over and looking around a bit for my 02C200P Roadtrek, same front end as Floorman's 190. This spring is on closeout at Rockauto, around the same price on Amazon but I have automotive trust issues with Amazon and Ebay.

https://www.rockauto.com/en/parts/mo...il+spring,7512

[booster]

Originally Posted by jjrbus

Looking through an old thread on suspension by Markopolo. Floorman reported a 2 inch height increase on a 02CRT190P by adding Moog 81012 front coil springs and other suspension parts. I have been mulling front springs over and looking around a bit for my 02C200P Roadtrek, same front end as Floorman's 190. This spring is on closeout at Rockauto, around the same price on Amazon but I have automotive trust issues with Amazon and Ebay.

https://www.rockauto.com/en/parts/mo...il+spring,7512

I haven't had any big problems with Amazon on auto parts very often, same with Rock Auto. Biggest difference a lot of the time is the not price but the shipping costs, which have gotten really high lately for Rock Auto.

[booster]

Rock Auto about $145 +$50 shipping.


Amazon $131 + $31 shipping



Both to Minnesota so could be different to other places.


Marco's thread is the gold standard for the previous generation Chevies, IMO. Very well researched and logically approached to try to account for the very common mismatches between predicted ride heights based on spring rate and leverage ratio of the van.

[jjrbus]

Myself and a few other people got bad parts off Ebay, I have heard the same is happening on Amazon. It is claimed Rock Auto is a drop shipper, not having the problems of others and I am not reading any issues with them.

I would prefer to buy the parts from GM and pick up at the dealer but the springs are $600 with free shipping. The shipping to Ft Myers FL is $48.99 with RA.

Marcopolo did a great thread I have revisited it several times.

https://parts.gmparts.com/product/ac...true&year=2001

[booster]

Originally Posted by jjrbus

Myself and a few other people got bad parts off Ebay, I have heard the same is happening on Amazon. It is claimed Rock Auto is a drop shipper, not having the problems of others and I am not reading any issues with them.

I would prefer to buy the parts from GM and pick up at the dealer but the springs are $600 with free shipping. The shipping to Ft Myers FL is $48.99 with RA.

Marcopolo did a great thread I have revisited it several times.

https://parts.gmparts.com/product/ac...true&year=2001

Yeah, ebay is a pretty sleazy place for a lot of stuff, including auto parts and such. Lots of issues there.


Rock Auto is completely a drop shipper, and beyond that you are only getting relayed what the sellers description is of the product,which can be good or bad, based on my experience with them. The worst one lately was on a fuel pump/sending unit assembly that was listed as a topline, and out of production, brand for the particular application. What I got was a super cheapo knockoff product. The vendor on it a closeout mass product buyer and not very careful of their descriptions, it appears, and who feels it is OK the substitute anything that they have and fits no matter what quality level. After sending RA lots of pix of the unit received and of their own listing and waiting a couple of months, RA did issue credit finally. I think they were waiting for the the vendor to credit them.


Of course similar can happen on Amazon or any other online vendor as very many of the them dropship lots of the the things they are selling so they don't have to carry any inventory.


The surer thing is certainly the dealer, but they sure do know how to charge for the parts, but be aware that they also may give you and aftermarket equivalent part once they run out of the OEM version, even if the P/N is still the same. The AC Delco starters, alternators, and AC compressors for my 96 Buick all came through being Chinese aftermarket parts carrying the original P/N. That Buick if in the same timeframe as your van and I guess it is better, I guess, to be able to at least be able to get replacement parts, rather than being not available, but I worry about reliability. My guess is that the dealer parts are the Moog springs in your case, as they normally don't have original coils that old as there are too many variations and inventory costs money. They sell them off to resellers in most cases to reduce carried inventory costs.

[jjrbus]

New springs showed up, interesting they are in a box with a Moog sticker on it and made in USA on the box. That box is inside a outer box sealed with Rockauto tape.

The springs look much heavier and show a shipping weight of 70 lbs. They are about 15 1/2" tall and have a coil diametr of 1.037. The old springs are difficult to measure but about 0.87"

So now do I do them myself or look for an installer?

[peteco]

Originally Posted by jjrbus

New springs showed up, interesting they are in a box with a Moog sticker on it and made in USA on the box. That box is inside a outer box sealed with Rockauto tape.

The springs look much heavier and show a shipping weight of 70 lbs. They are about 15 1/2" tall and have a coil diametr of 1.037. The old springs are difficult to measure but about 0.87"

So now do I do them myself or look for an installer?

I installed mine. I am an average DIY mechanic. It was scary and I would not try it again on these heavy duty springs. Find a competent shop to install them.

[jjrbus]

Originally Posted by peteco

I installed mine. I am an average DIY mechanic. It was scary and I would not try it again on these heavy duty springs. Find a competent shop to install them.

Not a mechanic an old guy (76) with some tools. Far too often when I hire something done they screw it up. I just switched out front tires. I have a Ryobi 1/2 inch 18V impact. One side went fine, the Ryobi with little struggle removed all 8 lugs, the other side I had to get out the 3/4" breaker bar and put all my weigh on 4 to get them loose. Had the tires re-balanced about a month ago! They use the torque sticks, how could it be that far off?

[booster]

Originally Posted by jjrbus

Not a mechanic an old guy (76) with some tools. Far too often when I hire something done they screw it up. I just switched out front tires. I have a Ryobi 1/2 inch 18V impact. One side went fine, the Ryobi with little struggle removed all 8 lugs, the other side I had to get out the 3/4" breaker bar and put all my weigh on 4 to get them loose. Had the tires re-balanced about a month ago! They use the torque sticks, how could it be that far off?

Even with a torque stick, if you run them in full speed with and impact, the momentum can get them much tighter than they should be or would be if run in slower and tightened in 2-3 stages. I turn the impact air flow setting down for run in and then on two more stages use increasing number of impacts while watching if the nut turns or not.


On our Chevy they call out 140 ft-lbs, so that is hefty to take off by hand, or even with many electric impact wrenches.

[peteco]

Originally Posted by jjrbus

Not a mechanic an old guy (76) with some tools. Far too often when I hire something done they screw it up. I just switched out front tires. I have a Ryobi 1/2 inch 18V impact. One side went fine, the Ryobi with little struggle removed all 8 lugs, the other side I had to get out the 3/4" breaker bar and put all my weigh on 4 to get them loose. Had the tires re-balanced about a month ago! They use the torque sticks, how could it be that far off?

Agree, I have had enough hired out screw ups to make me do everything myself if I can do it safely.

The local Discount Tire uses torque sticks, but does final torque with torque wrench. I will watch closer next time they rotate tires to see how much additional rotation occurs with the torque wrench. I may ask the manager what torque stick range they use. He is great and always willing to talk to me if I have any questions.

[jjrbus]

I always put some miles on and then check the lug nuts for looseness, never checking for over tightening! This morning I have to go out and check the rear wheel torque. NOw that you mention it I have seen the lug nuts put on with a impact then a torque wrench.

This was Discount tire in Ft Myers. On a trip I had a tire rotation done at a Discount and they rotated the tires and put the 80 psi tires on the front and the 65 psi tires on the rear. 01 Roadtrek 200.

If I have to get an oil change on the road I drive about a block and check for leaks.

My faith in humanity is such is I look both ways before crossing a one way street.

[peteco]

I have a sheet I give the tire tech whenever tire work is done (rotation pattern, lug nut torque , tire pressures).

Had oil change and lube done while traveling a few years ago. Oil filter was loose when I changed oil the next time. Grease all around the fittings and probably not in the joints. So I carry a filter and pan , then buy oil and change it while on a trip if needed. Plan to do that as long as physically capable

[Jim M]

Im looking at doing a lift on our 2011 Roadtrek 210P. Can you share Marco's article or whatever link you have for his posts? Id like to read that before I pull the trigger! Thank you!

[booster]

Originally Posted by Jim M

Im looking at doing a lift on our 2011 Roadtrek 210P. Can you share Marco's article or whatever link you have for his posts? Id like to read that before I pull the trigger! Thank you!

Marco's thread is for the pre 2003 vans, so yours is different and there a lot of threads on the later version like yours, in both 190s and 210s.

[jjrbus]

A paint mark is mentioned to show top of spring, I see no paint mark. Tapered end is mentioned as top of spring, I have no taper.

One end of spring is flatter, when set on a level surface the spring leans less than the other end. Is top bottom something I need to be concerned about or will it be obvious when removing old spring? Not mentioned in the videos I looked at.

[booster]

Originally Posted by jjrbus

A paint mark is mentioned to show top of spring, I see no paint mark. Tapered end is mentioned as top of spring, I have no taper.

One end of spring is flatter, when set on a level surface the spring leans less than the other end. Is top bottom something I need to be concerned about or will it be obvious when removing old spring? Not mentioned in the videos I looked at.

I will mostly depend on what you find when you get the old one out. Our 07 has a flat upper surface and the lower one has a tapered pocket to match the non flat end spring on that end.

[Floorman]

Originally Posted by jjrbus

Looking through an old thread on suspension by Markopolo. Floorman reported a 2 inch height increase on a 02CRT190P by adding Moog 81012 front coil springs and other suspension parts. I have been mulling front springs over and looking around a bit for my 02C200P Roadtrek, same front end as Floorman's 190. This spring is on closeout at Rockauto, around the same price on Amazon but I have automotive trust issues with Amazon and Ebay.

https://www.rockauto.com/en/parts/mo...il+spring,7512

Sorry to chime in late. Bought the entire front end Moog suspension and steering components from Rock Auto. Not a problem at all for me. I think Rock Auto rocks. I took the 02C190P to Bishop Automotive and their alignment guy did the install of everything. Getting the Moog coil in was an adventure getting it compressed and getting the ball joints fastened up. I think finding a front end shop is a good idea

[jjrbus]

Originally Posted by Floorman

Sorry to chime in late. Bought the entire front end Moog suspension and steering components from Rock Auto. Not a problem at all for me. I think Rock Auto rocks. I took the 02C190P to Bishop Automotive and their alignment guy did the install of everything. Getting the Moog coil in was an adventure getting it compressed and getting the ball joints fastened up. I think finding a front end shop is a good idea

I watch You tube videos and see people remove and pop them in and out with no issues. Projects never seem to go like that for me! At 1.037 dia it is going to take some real force to compress them.

[booster]

Originally Posted by jjrbus

I watch You tube videos and see people remove and pop them in and out with no issues. Projects never seem to go like that for me! At 1.037 dia it is going to take some real force to compress them.

Most stock replacement springs are like the OEM ones and can be put in without compressing, but aftermarket are often a bit longer and often stiffer and require a spring compressor.


With the right spring compressor it is not hard at all to compress. I have the recommended OTC compressor and it will compress 1.06 wire springs easily.


Many shops quote this stuff thinking they will fit like OEM and when they can't get in they try to use the external strut type compressors which are way to weak to do these springs. It is not that it is all that difficult, it is because of poor knowledge and having the right tools, IMO.

[Floorman]

Originally Posted by booster

Most stock replacement springs are like the OEM ones and can be put in without compressing, but aftermarket are often a bit longer and often stiffer and require a spring compressor.


With the right spring compressor it is not hard at all to compress. I have the recommended OTC compressor and it will compress 1.06 wire springs easily.


Many shops quote this stuff thinking they will fit like OEM and when they can't get in they try to use the external strut type compressors which are way to weak to do these springs. It is not that it is all that difficult, it is because of poor knowledge and having the right tools, IMO.

Bishop Automotive did not use a spring compressor. They of course first installed the new upper and lower control arms. They had a secondary hydraulic lift on their main drive on lift. They lifted the front end of the RT so that the control arms were open to the max, inserted the new coil in place and lowered the front end of the RT compressing the spring and then bolting up the lower ball joints. It was scary to watch and way beyond my abilities. Thankfully I had the sense and the pocketbook to have all this done. It took 300-400 miles for it all to settle in and now have a solid ride and the increase in clearance.