Midwest Designs Sprinter 4x4 In-Depth Review - Mike Mas

[booster]

So you are running these tests on a van after dark that has been precooled.

No out of the ordinary parameter there

[Bud]

"Since this thread is dedicated to Midwest Automotive Designs beautiful 4x4 diesel conversion, let’s please keep the focus on this coach.

Regards - Mike"

Mike you've made some it about You, so that may or may not stop.

You may have missed it earlier:

"Mike, you seem to confirm what I've thought since the word etrek was first used. It was and mostly still is about ac although lithium will rule down the road. It is about how much, how often the van's engine will be used for charging.

- No ac use, no big amount of amp hours needed

- ac with shore power, no big amount of amp hours needed

- ac with batteries with recharge from van's engine 3 times a year, 12 volt lithium system

- ac with batteries with recharge from van's engine 75 times a year, Volta

Have I got that about right?

Bud

[IdleUp]

Originally Posted by Bud

"Since this thread is dedicated to Midwest Automotive Designs beautiful 4x4 diesel conversion, let’s please keep the focus on this coach.

Regards - Mike"

Mike you've made some it about You, so that may or may not stop.

You may have missed it earlier:

"Mike, you seem to confirm what I've thought since the word etrek was first used. It was and mostly still is about ac although lithium will rule down the road. It is about how much, how often the van's engine will be used for charging.

- No ac use, no big amount of amp hours needed

- ac with shore power, no big amount of amp hours needed

- ac with batteries with recharge from van's engine 3 times a year, 12 volt lithium system

- ac with batteries with recharge from van's engine 75 times a year, Volta

Have I got that about right?

Bud

Bud, I moved your post to my lithium thread!


http://www.classbforum.com/forums/f5...html#post93205

[Djette1]

Hi Rory- I am in a Midwest Automotive designs/MAD group and I would like to share this review from this forum - (Copy/paste) with them for general interest and for potential buyers. I will also include the link to your full review. I just want to give some context to it. Let me know if it’s OK to copy and paste this info here.

[IdleUp]

Originally Posted by Djette1

Hi Rory- I am in a Midwest Automotive designs/MAD group and I would like to share this review from this forum - (Copy/paste) with them for general interest and for potential buyers. I will also include the link to your full review. I just want to give some context to it. Let me know if it’s OK to copy and paste this info here.

Hello & thanks for the reply - You're feel free to copy the article or share the link as you please, however I prefer that you instead share a link, as I am continually up-dating the articles content to keep it current with any changes. I will be installing a lithium 600 ah system to this coach which I'll include a link in this same article.

http://www.rotory.com/sprinter/midwest/

Regards - Mike

[Djette1]

Thanks Mike

[dhectorg]

This is a Midwest ad, not a "review". A review is an overview of a product that objectively describes the good AND the bad...and there is always some bad.

[patrolmi]

I'm picking up this same van this weekend-- MAD also sells under the brand American Coach now, and I'm getting that version (Patriot). These are all brands under REV group. I'll post a review as soon as I can contribute something worthwhile-- I looked at the Winnebago Revel, Pleasure-way (no 4x4), Advanced RV (a step up from MAD) and some of the boutique Sprinter conversion companies (Outside Van)....

It will be interesting to see how the class B wars play out now that the mainline companies are starting to dabble in it. I agree with an earlier comment here- the MAD conversions are super nice with their finishes... not the most custom but they provide a great base to where I can now customize the rest myself.... While this is a 4x4 Sprinter 3500-- the ground clearance and having some sensitive systems (ie generator) sitting underneath don't make it ideal for true 4x4 offroad -- I wanted it for driving in the winter and also potential trouble spots camping just off the main roads.

[Davydd]

If you were looking at the Revel did you buy the Patriot SD?

[patrolmi]

Originally Posted by Davydd

If you were looking at the Revel did you buy the Patriot SD?

Yes I did look at the Revel-- I had the intention of going that route up until I went and sat in one in person at our local RV Show. There were plusses and minuses with the Revel-- The main reason I didn't go that route was because it felt too closed in for my liking, there really wasn't much of any lounge area unless you flip around the front seats, and even then it was kind of lopsided. I really liked the Eurobed loft- I know Midwest has this setup in the 2020's but I ended up buy a 2019 that was used (Actually on a 2017 chassis) -- so it was a sacrifice I made. I'm not saying anything bad about the Revel-- i think it's geared slightly more for outdoor people so the expectation is they will actually be outside lounging and carrying more gear inside so that's the tradeoff-- the Midwest (American Coach) isn't rugged with garage space. The MW finishes are slightly more "upscale"-- again it isn't a plus or minus- it's just a different aesthetic. I do travel with a couple large dogs so I liked the more rugged aspect of the Revel... but the MW materials are all designed to hold up to abuse as well--- Initial criticism of the MW American Coach-- the integration is absolutely terrible. Either I'm not understanding it all yet, or it nothing is set up to work between system, like the TV doesn't integrate with the Coach sound system and the Coach sound doesn't integrate with the chassis sound -- there's 4 different bluetooth systems overlaying with none of them actually doing much. I think they fixed this in the 2020 using Firefly --- I'm fine with it because I was going to redo that part anyways. Also the lighting is kinda cheap... it's 2 zones on this screwy step dimming that you have to go one direction or the other until you reach the max and then keep pressing to step thru dimming levels. I'm actually happy that it's screwed up because I wanted to customize the lighting too (im in that business) so all is fine. I think on the higher trims Midwest and American Coach do have better lighting system... all in all I'm really happy with it so far-- it's got very solid bones and what's left is the fun stuff like getting the network up (sat or 4g haven't decided yet) and redoing the integration. If anyone has any questions in particular lemme know and I can try to answer. This was a used model with 10k miles that was 25k less then the Revel so I kinda sold out on the discount. The MW chassis doesn't sit near as high as the Revel-- I'm fine with that I wasn't getting the 4x4 for rough terrain, I was getting it for snow. I'd be real hesitant to take the MW off road too far, there's just not a huge amount of ground clearance and the most at risk item is the $$ Onan generator -- I wouldn't want to clip that on some rocks!

[patrolmi]

RE: the A/V and integration-- I did learn that I get 50 broadcast air channels at my house-- the antenna- I think it's a Winegard - is killer and the Samsung tV is awesome... I think part of the issue right now is within the last couple of years every device has bluetooth and wifi but there wasn't a clear way to put everything together (lights, climate, tv). I might standardize on the Samsung platform even though I use Apple devices-- I think Samsung has a pretty robust setup for everything else. I believe this is going to be a constant issue going forward-- getting everything to talk correctly - and it's purely a result of having the latest technology and options available to have total control over everything probably to the point of annoyance. It certainly starts to veer far away from the concept of "camping"

[RossWilliams]

Experience and theory are both important here. All of us have limited experience, the only difference is where those limits are and whether we recognize them. Theory has its limits too.

Its nice that you can run air conditioning for 6-8 hours in 90 degree air temps when the air is dry and you are parked in the shade and you only want an internal temperature of 85 degrees. For most people that isn't why they need air conditioning, they want to be able to take the temp down from 95 degrees to 72 degrees when they are parked in the sun. And most people's experience will tell them that their AC can't handle that for very long.

But if your goal is to keep your pets safe, if not completely comfortable, you may be able to set your coach at 90 degrees and the AC will handle that for a much longer time. Or if your goal is to keep it at 85 degrees or less overnight, when the air temperature for most of that time isn't much higher than that.

Understanding theory helps you figure out what will meet your needs. A silver coach parked in the shade in high humidity isn't going to do any better than a dark coach. Park those two in the desert sun and the difference will be considerable. To learn that from experience, you have to own both silver coach and a dark coach and you need to use them under different conditions. That is beyond the limits of most of our individual experience. Its the reason why collective decisions are almost always better than any one individuals, regardless of their experience.

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by patrolmi

Yes I did look at the Revel-- I had the intention of going that route up until I went and sat in one in person at our local RV Show. There were plusses and minuses with the Revel-- The main reason I didn't go that route was because it felt too closed in for my liking, there really wasn't much of any lounge area unless you flip around the front seats, and even then it was kind of lopsided. I really liked the Eurobed loft- I know Midwest has this setup in the 2020's but I ended up buy a 2019 that was used (Actually on a 2017 chassis) -- so it was a sacrifice I made. I'm not saying anything bad about the Revel-- i think it's geared slightly more for outdoor people so the expectation is they will actually be outside lounging and carrying more gear inside so that's the tradeoff-- the Midwest (American Coach) isn't rugged with garage space. The MW finishes are slightly more "upscale"-- again it isn't a plus or minus- it's just a different aesthetic. I do travel with a couple large dogs so I liked the more rugged aspect of the Revel... but the MW materials are all designed to hold up to abuse as well--- Initial criticism of the MW American Coach-- the integration is absolutely terrible. Either I'm not understanding it all yet, or it nothing is set up to work between system, like the TV doesn't integrate with the Coach sound system and the Coach sound doesn't integrate with the chassis sound -- there's 4 different bluetooth systems overlaying with none of them actually doing much. I think they fixed this in the 2020 using Firefly --- I'm fine with it because I was going to redo that part anyways. Also the lighting is kinda cheap... it's 2 zones on this screwy step dimming that you have to go one direction or the other until you reach the max and then keep pressing to step thru dimming levels. I'm actually happy that it's screwed up because I wanted to customize the lighting too (im in that business) so all is fine. I think on the higher trims Midwest and American Coach do have better lighting system... all in all I'm really happy with it so far-- it's got very solid bones and what's left is the fun stuff like getting the network up (sat or 4g haven't decided yet) and redoing the integration. If anyone has any questions in particular lemme know and I can try to answer. This was a used model with 10k miles that was 25k less then the Revel so I kinda sold out on the discount. The MW chassis doesn't sit near as high as the Revel-- I'm fine with that I wasn't getting the 4x4 for rough terrain, I was getting it for snow. I'd be real hesitant to take the MW off road too far, there's just not a huge amount of ground clearance and the most at risk item is the $$ Onan generator -- I wouldn't want to clip that on some rocks!

Actually I was wondering if you had bought the Patriot SD? The brochure is not clear if that is a 144" WB Sprinter same as the Winnebago Revel. I am purchasing a custom, by my design, 144" WB from ARV. I did forsake 4 WD because I am not planning taking it off road and have enough experience a 2 WD will take me on any road that I care to go with any common sense. I have an extended body now and the limiting factor on roads is the approach angles. I've bottomed out many times.

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by patrolmi

RE: the A/V and integration-- I did learn that I get 50 broadcast air channels at my house-- the antenna- I think it's a Winegard - is killer and the Samsung tV is awesome... I think part of the issue right now is within the last couple of years every device has bluetooth and wifi but there wasn't a clear way to put everything together (lights, climate, tv). I might standardize on the Samsung platform even though I use Apple devices-- I think Samsung has a pretty robust setup for everything else. I believe this is going to be a constant issue going forward-- getting everything to talk correctly - and it's purely a result of having the latest technology and options available to have total control over everything probably to the point of annoyance. It certainly starts to veer far away from the concept of "camping"

I'm Apple all they way. It's stock paid my bills in retirement. It is still the best integrated and easiest platform to use across cell phone, tablet and computer, IMO. But then I have known no other since buying the first 100 day Macintosh in 1984 with the exception when I worked and used Windows. We have smart tv's in our home both Samsung and Vizio but on our next ARV we are not going to have a TV installed. We just don't use our TV when on the road. We have a Winegard antenna, the pad kind, inside our air conditioning shroud. We camped in the White Tank Mountains Park overlooking Phoenix and I picked up 74 channels.

[patrolmi]

Originally Posted by Davydd

Actually I was wondering if you had bought the Patriot SD? The brochure is not clear if that is a 144" WB Sprinter same as the Winnebago Revel. I am purchasing a custom, by my design, 144" WB from ARV. I did forsake 4 WD because I am not planning taking it off road and have enough experience a 2 WD will take me on any road that I care to go with any common sense. I have an extended body now and the limiting factor on roads is the approach angles. I've bottomed out many times.

I should have mentioned that's another difference-- the Patriot MD2 i have is built on the 4x4 3500 platform so it's dual back tires and extended. It rides so smooth with the extra tires-- I have to believe it's better ride on the highways then the Revel. I decided with 2 big dogs I would take the extra space inside, it gives a more floor room for them to lay down. I hope I don't regret this, bottoming out could really do some damage-- I know this thing is not for rough terrain like Revel.

I think the Patriot FD2 is their new shorty, the 2019 was SD. Of course they say you can order anything you want but I think you can save quite a lot if you can find new old stock or like new 1-2 year old that fits the needs... it's pretty shocking how much these depreciate in the first year!! I saw a few very low miles 2018 and 2019 at 100k. I think the Revel is around 125k right now-- but that also gives you the 2020 new Sprinter, so that's a huge bonus too. I didn't see any MAD or American Coach models on the new chassis yet but i wasn't looking too hard for that, since those were out of my budget. There's a short 2019 Patriot SD at Veurinks in Grand Rapids Mi right now for 115k...new (2018 sprinter chassis). If I wanted a non 4x4 shorty, it would have complicated things because it opens up into a huge range of both new and used! I probably never would have pulled the trigger.

[IdleUp]

Originally Posted by patrolmi

I should have mentioned that's another difference-- the Patriot MD2 i have is built on the 4x4 3500 platform so it's dual back tires and extended. It rides so smooth with the extra tires-- I have to believe it's better ride on the highways then the Revel. I decided with 2 big dogs I would take the extra space inside, it gives a more floor room for them to lay down. I hope I don't regret this, bottoming out could really do some damage-- I know this thing is not for rough terrain like Revel.

I think the Patriot FD2 is their new shorty, the 2019 was SD. Of course they say you can order anything you want but I think you can save quite a lot if you can find new old stock or like new 1-2 year old that fits the needs... it's pretty shocking how much these depreciate in the first year!! I saw a few very low miles 2018 and 2019 at 100k. I think the Revel is around 125k right now-- but that also gives you the 2020 new Sprinter, so that's a huge bonus too. I didn't see any MAD or American Coach models on the new chassis yet but i wasn't looking too hard for that, since those were out of my budget. There's a short 2019 Patriot SD at Veurinks in Grand Rapids Mi right now for 115k...new (2018 sprinter chassis). If I wanted a non 4x4 shorty, it would have complicated things because it opens up into a huge range of both new and used! I probably never would have pulled the trigger.

patrolmi - thanks for the reply - that's one thing about Midwest, they will make modifications to the coach for you and the rates are not off the scale. In fact their prices are very respectable.

I'm convinced that Midwest builds the best type B on the market. The company really cares about their product. Other companies like Coachman and Winnebago and others, could care less about their customers.

Regards - Mike

[IdleUp]

Originally Posted by patrolmi

I'm picking up this same van this weekend-- MAD also sells under the brand American Coach now, and I'm getting that version (Patriot). These are all brands under REV group. I'll post a review as soon as I can contribute something worthwhile-- I looked at the Winnebago Revel, Pleasure-way (no 4x4), Advanced RV (a step up from MAD) and some of the boutique Sprinter conversion companies (Outside Van)....

It will be interesting to see how the class B wars play out now that the mainline companies are starting to dabble in it. I agree with an earlier comment here- the MAD conversions are super nice with their finishes... not the most custom but they provide a great base to where I can now customize the rest myself.... While this is a 4x4 Sprinter 3500-- the ground clearance and having some sensitive systems (ie generator) sitting underneath don't make it ideal for true 4x4 offroad -- I wanted it for driving in the winter and also potential trouble spots camping just off the main roads.

patrolmi


Hello just checking back with you to see how your liking your new Midwest Van. Let us know . . .

Mike