MB Sprinter Disturbing News Delay

[Spyder777]

Originally Posted by avanti

Volvo's position on diesel:



https://www.ft.com/content/6bf0ce8a-...2-d6ceb45fa9d0

Via con dios.

Not great at Spanish, but, did you mean hasta la vista diesel?

[RossWilliams]

Originally Posted by Boxster1971

Yes - one of those links I posted mentioned the Wendlands. But if you read further into that thread you will see a letter to a dealer from LTV discussing the 2020 Sprinter delays.

What I see is a letter from LTV to a dealer explaining delays in orders and availability of models and vaguely attributing them to problems getting Mercedes Sprinter chassis. The letter was then copied and provided to one of the dealers customers who copied it to the forum. This is the stuff of rumors.

Sure sounds better than "We decided not to order 2019 models and wait for the new 2020 chassis instead. We didn't realize it might not be available until fall."

I'm not saying that's what happened. What I am saying is that vague rumors repeated over and over again don't mean much. There used to be a saying "where there's smoke, there's fire", but on the internet and in the media mostly its just smoke and more smoke with all sorts of reasons for people to blow it around.

[Roadtech]

Originally Posted by Bud

Yes, and some of the alternatives don't need any gears or cvt - Tesla model S for example.

The Tesla Model S does have a gear set coupled to the electric motor, oil lubricated.

[Bud]

Originally Posted by Roadtech

The Tesla Model S does have a gear set coupled to the electric motor, oil lubricated.

Yes, and with a single speed transmission with no gears.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by Spyder777

Not great at Spanish, but, did you mean hasta la vista diesel?

I guess the expression is actually "Vaya con Dios".
Sorry for the grammar.

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by RossWilliams

What I see is a letter from LTV to a dealer explaining delays in orders and availability of models and vaguely attributing them to problems getting Mercedes Sprinter chassis. The letter was then copied and provided to one of the dealers customers who copied it to the forum. This is the stuff of rumors.

Sure sounds better than "We decided not to order 2019 models and wait for the new 2020 chassis instead. We didn't realize it might not be available until fall."

I'm not saying that's what happened. What I am saying is that vague rumors repeated over and over again don't mean much. There used to be a saying "where there's smoke, there's fire", but on the internet and in the media mostly its just smoke and more smoke with all sorts of reasons for people to blow it around.

What are your credentials vs. Mike Wendland in blowing smoke on the Internet? Wendland is well connected in the RVing industry and is former investigating reporter. I would believe him over your lame postings just in this thread.

My understanding is the 2019 models are no longer being built in South Carolina as told to me by ARV. So my 2019 order was being changed to a 2020 model, which is essentially the same. mbvans.com no longer mentions a model year for Sprinters that I can find on their website but the information is the same. ARV does not have a delivery date. Wendland's reporting seems plausible but I haven't investigated this any further as I have other things taking up my time and can do nothing about it anyway.

[rockymtnb]

Originally Posted by RossWilliams

What I see is a letter from LTV to a dealer explaining delays in orders and availability of models and vaguely attributing them to problems getting Mercedes Sprinter chassis...

Sure sounds better than "We decided not to order 2019 models and wait for the new 2020 chassis instead. We didn't realize it might not be available until fall."

The Sprinter chassis shortage is definitely NOT unique to LTV. The RV trade press is full of articles about the industry impact of Daimler's Sprinter supply chain shortfall, including big players such as Thor's Airstream Coach division.

The idea that LTV, a very experienced member of Daimler Van's MasterUpfitter Program, would delay 2019 chassis orders for the nearly identical but more costly 2020 version has no basis from an RV industry perspective.

[booster]

Originally Posted by rockymtnb

The Sprinter chassis shortage is definitely NOT unique to LTV. The RV trade press is full of articles about the industry impact of Daimler's Sprinter supply chain shortfall, including big players such as Thor's Airstream Coach division.

The idea that LTV, a very experienced member of Daimler Van's MasterUpfitter Program, would delay 2019 chassis orders for the nearly identical but more costly 2020 version has no basis from an RV industry perspective.

I agree.



Very interesting when the complaint against vague rumors starts to look like a conspiracy theory instead.

[RossWilliams]

Here is a link to a similar discussion on the Sprinter board The complaint was no/late delivery, the excuse was Mercedes delivery delays, the real story ... read for yourself.

The Sprinter chassis shortage is definitely NOT unique to LTV.

Which is explained by this and has nothing to do with regulatory delays in delivery of 2020 units:

I suspect the actual issue is the Amazon Van.


They are literally buying a country's worth of any big box van they can get their hands on.

Money talks,

[RossWilliams]

Mike Wendland in blowing smoke on the Internet? Wendland is well connected in the RVing industry and is former investigating reporter.

Yes, we all remember his hard hitting investigative reporting on Roadtrek ... The way you become well connected in the rv industry, or any other industry, is by helping them sell product. If they trust you to do that, they talk to you. If they stop trusting, they stop talking and you are no longer "well connected".

Frankly, I don't really care who you believe. Its your problem if you get it wrong.

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by RossWilliams

Here is a link to a similar discussion on the Sprinter board The complaint was no/late delivery, the excuse was Mercedes delivery delays, the real story ... read for yourself.



Which is explained by this and has nothing to do with regulatory delays in delivery of 2020 units:

You just quoted a link to another forum with 65 pages and 643 messages of speculation with no concrete answers. So much for your expertise. Always the contrarian. You've been of no help.

[RossWilliams]

Originally Posted by Davydd

You just quoted a link to another forum with 65 pages and 643 messages of speculation with no concrete answers.

Exactly.

Its a thread started a year ago with a claim that a dealer was blaming general delivery problems from Mercedes for the dealer's failure to deliver a promised unit built on the 2019 Mercedes chassis. That is followed by several posts calling the dealer a liar since they had all recently received units built on the chassis.

A year later, a model later, same story.

In short, you can't believe what you read on the internet. What a shock.

[Boxster1971]

Originally Posted by RossWilliams

Here is a link to a similar discussion on the Sprinter board The complaint was no/late delivery, the excuse was Mercedes delivery delays, the real story ... read for yourself. . .

Your are correct - that old, long thread you linked from the Sprinter-Source forum has nothing to do with this current discussion.

But there is a thread on that forum that relates to delays in the 2020 Sprinters.

https://sprinter-source.com/forum/sh...ad.php?t=81735

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by RossWilliams

Exactly.

Its a thread started a year ago with a claim that a dealer was blaming general delivery problems from Mercedes for the dealer's failure to deliver a promised unit built on the 2019 Mercedes chassis. That is followed by several posts calling the dealer a liar since they had all recently received units built on the chassis.

A year later, a model later, same story.

In short, you can't believe what you read on the internet. What a shock.

I guess you don’t have cognitive capability. I opened this thread with a quote from a podcast, not the internet. But if on the internet, I guess you are an example of what not to believe.

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by Boxster1971

Your are correct - that old, long thread you linked from the Sprinter-Source forum has nothing to do with this current discussion.

But there is a thread on that forum that relates to delays in the 2020 Sprinters.

https://sprinter-source.com/forum/sh...ad.php?t=81735

I read that thread. It gives more credence to what Wendland said in his podcast but it too gave no direct reason. Again speculation. The frustrating thing is no official Mercedes Benz comment other than I guess to some upfitters.

[RossWilliams]

"But there is a thread on that forum that relates to delays in the 2020 Sprinters."

Here is the first post of that thread:

California (C.A.R.B.) hold on 2020 vans?
Has anyone heard anything about 2020 models being blocked by California Air Resources Board?

My dealer says all van imports are stopped until as soon as April due to some problem with C.A.R.B. and engine emissions. ]

Filled from there with rumors and conjecture.

That included your conjecture about what (or might not) be the significance of the 2020 Sprinters not being on a list of approved vehicles. If they aren't shipping the 2020 sprinter until fall, why would you expect them to be on a list of approved vehicles now? I'm not saying you are wrong. But there is really nothing that attributes the delay to that anything specific. No more than that some other unexpected delay in the 2020 model release is responsible for the reported shortage of sprinters available to upfitters.

Its a classic internet story repeated in multiple places but with no real evidence or attribution of an original reliable source.

[booster]

This is starting to sound like way too many other discussions with no possible end or agreement.


I think things like this need to be looked at kind of like legal issues.


Is it so critical that it would fit "criminal" type evidence and proof of "beyond a shadow of a doubt"?


Or is it less critical so it would fit "civil" type evidence of "preponderance of the evidence"?


IMO, it is no more correct to insist someone NOT believe the things they see and collect than it is to insist they HAVE TO believe them.


Everyone has a right to evaluate data, opinion, hearsay, or even untruths and make that decision for themselves.


Personally, I think this discussion is not in need of "beyond a shadow of a doubt level evidence", as very few things are that critical.

[Boxster1971]

No one outside of Daimler is going to know the real reasons for these delays. No one in the company is going to say anything that would impact sales. The best you will get is second hand info from a dealer who attended a regional sales meeting, as in that Sprinter-Source thread.

But it is a well documented fact that VW, BMW and Daimler are facing more than normal scrutiny over their diesel emissions systems. That fact is documented in Daimler's financial reports as a risk because it is required of a publicly traded company.

The best anyone outside of Daimler can do is speculate on the minimal facts released.

[Bud]

Originally Posted by Boxster1971

No one outside of Daimler is going to know the real reasons for these delays. No one in the company is going to say anything that would impact sales. The best you will get is second hand info from a dealer who attended a regional sales meeting, as in that Sprinter-Source thread.

But it is a well documented fact that VW, BMW and Daimler are facing more than normal scrutiny over their diesel emissions systems. That fact is documented in Daimler's financial reports as a risk because it is required of a publicly traded company.

The best anyone outside of Daimler can do is speculate on the minimal facts released.

Hold up Mr Boxster, who knows, the Very Sprinter Connected one might show up with Triple Fact Checked Facts, Idleup.

But then, so far, it appears that Idleup shows up when the the forum's Quadruple Fact Checker feature is needed.

Bud

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by Davydd

You just quoted a link to another forum with 65 pages and 643 messages of speculation with no concrete answers. So much for your expertise. Always the contrarian. You've been of no help.

That is about the best description. If I remember correctly there was a discussion in the past about shunt vs dummy LED battery monitoring, Ah vs A, W vs W/hour, normal folks vs pedantic engineers. Remember this post on this forum by Ross “Let me clarify for you. Watts when used for battery capaciy is shorthand for watt/hours. I know that is hard to understand or accept and is heretical to the engineering religion” My ignore list is small but I still see quoted posts.