Many of same model on used market, warning sign?

[AnthonyT]

Hi all,

If there is a lot of units of the same model and year available on the used market, is that a bad sign?

Specifically, I'm noticing a lot of 2015/2016/2017 PleasureWay Plateaus on the Mercedes chassis for sale in the classifieds. When looking for the Lexor model, on the Dodge chassis, there are hardly any and they are priced higher.

Just wondering if it means there is an issue with the Mercedes chassis around that period of time.

Unfortuntely, I don't have the luxury of traveling across Canada to see the reasonably priced Lexors (flying half way across the country vs. driving 4 hours).

Thoughts? Anthony

[GeorgeRa]

Sprinters of these years have exhaust emission issue. Check if recall was done. After recall they seems to improved, at least mine 2013 did.

[Rlum]

Originally Posted by AnthonyT

Hi all,

If there is a lot of units of the same model and year available on the used market, is that a bad sign?

Specifically, I'm noticing a lot of 2015/2016/2017 PleasureWay Plateaus on the Mercedes chassis for sale in the classifieds. When looking for the Lexor model, on the Dodge chassis, there are hardly any and they are priced higher.

Just wondering if it means there is an issue with the Mercedes chassis around that period of time.

Unfortuntely, I don't have the luxury of traveling across Canada to see the reasonably priced Lexors (flying half way across the country vs. driving 4 hours).

Thoughts? Anthony

I think PW was not able to get the Ram Promaster chassis anymore? Maybe not enough of a volume dealer? PW really has not made the Lexor TS since 2017?

[mkguitar]

Originally Posted by AnthonyT

PleasureWay Plateaus on the Mercedes chassis

I read a post earlier today regarding owners with failing key fobs surrendering wallet and firstborn to MB dealership.


I think really you want to look first at the layout and features of the coach and the chassis secondary.


look at as many RV's as you can- from each you will see a feature which you like, or don;t... something you can't live without, something you hate ( for me a rear bath)


ASK owners if you can look at or if they like theirs- I had someone at costco lower sackville ask for a tour last year, I've also been asked at campgrounds.



watch youtube videos for the way the often large salesperson tries to move around esp if there is a 2nd person with camera- is that how you want to live your life ?
Watch for having to move something to get to another feature ( often a cover is removed from sink or cooktop, and you see them trying to figure out where to put it... on my pw the cooktop cover fits on braces to extend the counter top).


2¢= I am very happy with my 2006 PW- I have found only 2 things which could have been done better when they built it- 1 took 15 years to show itself.


as for chassis, I like gas I can work on gas, and my PW shares architecture with my pickup, I have the manuals, tools and know some of the foibles of the GM vortec.


( we did rent a diesel 6 spd citroen version of the promaster in ireland it was fine to drive, I've also driven a sprinter and it was great too... some years have real rust issues- a no-no for NS)



good luck, Mike ( former Haligonian)

[mumkin]

Originally Posted by Rlum

I think PW was not able to get the Ram Promaster chassis anymore? Maybe not enough of a volume dealer? PW really has not made the Lexor TS since 2017?

They are still making the Tofino on the Promaster... 1500. You may be right that they ran into issues competing with Amazon and the bigger RV manufacturers for the 2500 and 3500. Seems they switched to the Transit... and now Ford is desperately backed up supplying those to converters.

[AnthonyT]

Thank-you everyone for your input.

I fear I may have to pick my poison - either choose a chassis I feel more confident in (newer & less expensive to fix, like the Promaster) but a layout & build quality I'm uncertain with (Roadtrek) or go with a layout and build quality I prefer and risk a chassis that's most costly to repair (PW on Mercedes). I have lots of experience with European cars, so I know what to expect (comfortable but complex or $$$ to fix). I don't have any familiarity with Dodge however.

My gut says I should be patient and wait for another PM PW to show up locally. I was just hoping to hear Sprinters were ok, since they seem to be cheap and plentiful. Patience isn't one of my virtues, lol.

It hasn't occurred to me to tour campgrounds - that's brilliant! I hate to waste a private seller's time if I'm uncertain the coach is right (chassis wise, in my case).

Originally Posted by mkguitar

I read a post earlier today regarding owners with failing key fobs surrendering wallet and firstborn to MB dealership.


I think really you want to look first at the layout and features of the coach and the chassis secondary.


look at as many RV's as you can- from each you will see a feature which you like, or don;t... something you can't live without, something you hate ( for me a rear bath)


ASK owners if you can look at or if they like theirs- I had someone at costco lower sackville ask for a tour last year, I've also been asked at campgrounds.



watch youtube videos for the way the often large salesperson tries to move around esp if there is a 2nd person with camera- is that how you want to live your life ?
Watch for having to move something to get to another feature ( often a cover is removed from sink or cooktop, and you see them trying to figure out where to put it... on my pw the cooktop cover fits on braces to extend the counter top).


2¢= I am very happy with my 2006 PW- I have found only 2 things which could have been done better when they built it- 1 took 15 years to show itself.


as for chassis, I like gas I can work on gas, and my PW shares architecture with my pickup, I have the manuals, tools and know some of the foibles of the GM vortec.


( we did rent a diesel 6 spd citroen version of the promaster in ireland it was fine to drive, I've also driven a sprinter and it was great too... some years have real rust issues- a no-no for NS)



good luck, Mike ( former Haligonian)

[mkguitar]

the dodge promaster is behind the badge a fiat. as to whether the supply chain goes to detroit or turin, I don't know

[MsNomer]

Originally Posted by mkguitar

the dodge promaster is behind the badge a fiat. as to whether the supply chain goes to detroit or turin, I don't know

Promaster body is Fiat/Peugeot/Citroen design. Drive train is RAM, same engine and transmission as in some other Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep/Ram vehicles. Assembled in Saltillo, MX.

Our 2014 Promaster has 227,000 miles. It has never let us down.

[mkguitar]

Originally Posted by MsNomer

Drive train is RAM, same engine and transmission as in some other Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep/Ram vehicles. Assembled in Saltillo, MX.

Thanks- as I mentioned I rented a 6 spd diesel Citroen in Ireland- it was pretty good.


Maybe when the chev poops out, the promaster will be the way to go

[peteco]

Originally Posted by mkguitar

Maybe when the chev poops out, the promaster will be the way to go

The chev will never poop out as long as you take care of it, at least that's what I hope on my 2006 RT 210P.

[bobojay]

One thing about the Promasters. Find the oldest one (2013 build) with the most miles on it and if it hasn't been wrecked, there won't be a spec of rust on the body anywhere. There's lots of them out there with 500k+ miles on the original engine if it was taken care of. A couple I know of with more than 600k the same. Talking about the 3.6 Pentastar.
The weak link on them is the transmission which after reading and studying on them is most likely the solenoid pack which is easily replaced without pulling the trans however they get diagnosed as a bad trans. Gets more $$$ maybe??
We currently have a 6 year old with 56k miles Promaster RV we bought new. Have made one trip to a dealer for the shift cable recall. That's it.....

We had 2 NCV3 chassis Sprinter RVs bought new and didn't have much luck with either. Chassis ACs bad in both, wouldn't stay in alignment, multiple expensive trips to a 40 mile away dealer. Roof seams rusting within a year of purchase. On and on.

[Hatteras Jim]

Avoid the Sprinter Diesel with the Blue Tec system at all costs. Even after the last recall and replacement, I am still experiencing issues with mine. Some diesel sprinters have worked well for others; but, not for me. I'd sell it; but, I can't unload this "pogc" with a clear conscience. Unhappy since 2013. If all the models that you are looking at are diesels, then I think you know the answer.

[CampGal]

I would like to share our very POSITIVE experience with our 2017 Pleasure-Way Plateau XLTD on a 2016 MB Sprinter 3500 chassis.

We purchased our PW in August 2020 from the original owner who had to sell it to finance a home purchase. The motorhome was very well cared for and came with all the original manuals and other documentation. We spent the 5 previous years looking for the “right” gently used small Class C motorhome located close to our area. Back in 2015 to 2020 the used Plateau’s were few and far between.

We (along with the original owner) have had ZERO Sprinter engine / emission / cab electronic issues. Apparently, we are the exception not the rule after reading the other responses to this post. Our Sprinter has ample power and good response. NO DEF issues at all. We have refilled the DEF on numerous occasions without issue. We only use Peak Blue DEF sold at Home Depot because they sell so much of the product it always has a recent manufacturer date.

We will NEVER allow MB to “fix” our rig’s emission system per their recall. We came to this decision after reading the numerous nightmare comments and blogs that have been posted over the last two years which specifically discuss the aftermath of the emission recall “fix”. We suspect that many of the PW Plateau’s that are currently for re-sale are rigs that now have the “corrected” emission system.

Very comfortable to drive. We LOVE the 23’ length – we can fit in almost any campsite.

We do our own Sprinter maintenance – oil & filter changes, air filters, other fluid changes, DEF refills, etc.

The build quality of the PW coach and all the RV systems is excellent. We have had ZERO issues with RV system failures, breakdowns, or leaks. We did replace the Kwikee step motor ourselves. The filter on the Onan-Cummins generator (propane) was replaced by an Onan technician.

Pleasure-Way Customer Service is superb! They have answered all our calls and questions. Real human technicians, no chats or email. This level of customer service is almost unheard of for second-hand owners of a motorhome, and we feel it speaks very highly of the commitment PW has to their Plateau product.

In our opinion, the XLTD floorplan (twin beds) has got to be one of the best floorplans ever designed for a small Class C. Very versatile – 2 twin beds or 1 king bed. Fabulous dry bathroom. No slide-out which, in our opinion, is a big PLUS (no maintenance issues, no slide-out breakdown in the middle of nowhere.)

We hope you find your dream motorhome!

Kay
(RVer for over 30 years)

[Siam]

2021 Regency class B+, on Sprinter. Bought it because of layout, rear BR, double recliner in LR. Bad idea. Sprinter - no problems - Tucson maintenance facility great. Regency - can't say enough bad things about the design, engineering, and electrical systems. Customer service abysmal. Stay away from Regency.

[Snowy]

Originally Posted by AnthonyT

Thank-you everyone for your input.

I fear I may have to pick my poison - either choose a chassis I feel more confident in (newer & less expensive to fix, like the Promaster) but a layout & build quality I'm uncertain with (Roadtrek) or go with a layout and build quality I prefer and risk a chassis that's most costly to repair (PW on Mercedes). I have lots of experience with European cars, so I know what to expect (comfortable but complex or $$$ to fix). I don't have any familiarity with Dodge however.

Have you thought about Panoramic RV? They build what many people seem to say has as good or better quality as PW, and they are building on the RAM PM.

[AnthonyT]

Originally Posted by Snowy

Have you thought about Panoramic RV? They build what many people seem to say has as good or better quality as PW, and they are building on the RAM PM.

Thanks for tip! I'll pay closer attention if I see one listed.

[AnthonyT]

Thank-you everyone for your contributions. They have been very helpful. Based on your comments, I will avoid the temptation to choose a PW Sprinter even-though there are more used ones on the market.

We'll see what I can come up with! Due to my wife's health, I am shopping on a tight timeline. You've saved me some time driving out to look at coaches I would have eventually decided against.

[booster]

Originally Posted by bobojay

One thing about the Promasters. Find the oldest one (2013 build) with the most miles on it and if it hasn't been wrecked, there won't be a spec of rust on the body anywhere. There's lots of them out there with 500k+ miles on the original engine if it was taken care of. A couple I know of with more than 600k the same.

I don't want this taken wrong and I certainly am not calling anyone a liar, so please believe that.


They do seem to rust quite a bit more slowly than many other vans, probably due to the galvanized body panels, although here in the land of rusty vehicles (Minnesota) I have seen a few with a little "lace" along very bottom edge of the body. A little bit of unconfirmed reports of underbody rust of some of the structure, but not much.


Concerning the 500-600K+ miles, I have seen that claim few times in the past with nearly the same verbage, but never any links to list or first hand knowledge, so very unconfirmed to me and I was never able to find any information about it online. I watch Craigslist all the time, where old wornout stuff shows up to sell just before they die, and have never seen one much over 300K.



Do you have links or further details of what use and size Promasters those were and even better a link to that list, which might show that information? I am data driven by nature, so information on claims is needed to see how good the claim is.

[MsNomer]

I personally know someone who has 700,000+ and I have seen the vehicle. He had to get a new odometer because it maxed out at a million kilometers. He changed out the engine sometime in the 600,000's because it was getting weak, not because it failed.

Although the assembled bodies are dipped in a galvanizing bath at the factory, the resistance to rust goes farther than that, and we don’t understand. I'm not doubting that you have seen some rust—I have seen a couple with rust in Europe, but it's got to be extreme conditions as you could have up there. The cutouts from my windows, with raw metal edges, have been standing on end buried in regularly wetted dirt for 8 years with no rust.

[booster]

Originally Posted by MsNomer

I personally know someone who has 700,000+ and I have seen the vehicle. He had to get a new odometer because it maxed out at a million kilometers. He changed out the engine sometime in the 600,000's because it was getting weak, not because it failed.

Although the assembled bodies are dipped in a galvanizing bath at the factory, the resistance to rust goes farther than that, and we don’t understand. I'm not doubting that you have seen some rust—I have seen a couple with rust in Europe, but it's got to be extreme conditions as you could have up there. The cutouts from my windows, with raw metal edges, have been standing on end buried in regularly wetted dirt for 8 years with no rust.

You need to see some that have been on the streets in city areas where the salt is very heavy and things rust quickly. I have a few on the street and few on Craigslst for sale with pix. Some of the older GM cars also had galvenized bodies and were slow to rust, but the eventually they did also. I think the early 90s Park avenues were that way and were body on frame so the frames still rusted.


What was the usage of the van you mention?