LTV Wonder vs. RT Zion vs. Hymer Aktiv 1 or 2

[<<B-Guy>>]

Originally Posted by avanti

Some say a lot of things. I know of no evidence suggesting that a proper blowout isn't totally effective for any RV plumbing configuration. If you are willing to learn the technique and able to execute it correctly, you will be fine.

My guess is that the source of "many many people" using the pink stuff is principally due to the belief by manufacturers that this technique is easier for unsophisticated owners to follow reliably. This belief may well be correct. My advice is always modified by the proviso "properly executed". Blowouts may not be for everybody, but it has nothing to to efficacy.


Yes, of course. But this is a far cry from introducing it into the fresh system, which IMO is just gross, even ignoring the pointless rigmarole. I often dewinterize several times in the course of a winter (we are 4-season campers, and use all systems, even in the winter). This adds up to a lot of saved hassle and cost.

That is an interesting theory. Is it the pink stuff that you think may cause problems, or something else? I have always just left a puddle of pink in the toilet, thinking it would keep the seals from drying out, and then spraying with silicone lubricant in the spring. I hope I am not doing more harm than good.

Hi Avanti,

I'm not really sure about the toilet seal issue. All can say is that for a couple of winters when I put pink stuff in the toilet, when we would come to take teh trailer south in Feb I would would find it all gone! Then when we got south and I strted to use the toilet, the seal would not hold water.

I would have to fool about with it for days to get it to seal again - ensuring nothing trapped in the sllding valve groove, cleaning and flexing the seal, even putting silicon dielectric grease on it.


At that point, several people told me that putting the pink stuff in is not good for the seal - they said to use special stuff Thetford sell, or use olive oil or the like.

(At least one person told me oil would oxidize to a gummy mess in the bowl.)


I have used olive oil or the cheapest veg ol fro the last three seasons and so far no problems. Just checked my trailer a couple of days ago and the oil is still there. Doesn't seem to cause a mess, but if it did I think all it would take would be a wipe with a paper towel.

So far so good!


Brian (Still using the pink stuff dammit - maybe I am OC!)

[booster]

We have used both pink and blowout without any problems in our C190P Roadtrek, but of course a sample of on proves nothing

I can say from personal experience that if you use pink stuff, and then drain or blow it back out (so it is much faster to dewinterize when you get out of freezing weather) you can get pink stuff sort of drying in areas that have mostly drained or left a film of it. The major place this can be an issue is on the rubber valves and check valve in the fresh water pump, as they can be stuck open or shut because of the pink goo. This happened to us, and it took a long, long, time of fresh water flushing from shore water to get the pump to start working again.

I did also bench test one of the common statements about blowing out with compressed air on an old pump. The reasoning is that the compressed air will blow through the pump valves, which is correct, and that it can cause the thin rubber valves to flutter and possibly tear or stretch out of shape. I windowed spots on the pump outlet cap so I could actually see the valves, and more importantly hear if they were making lots of noise like a whoopie cushion.

The results were not all that surprising, I think, in that it was very airflow dependent, and indirectly pressure dependent (pressure generates the airflow). At low airflows, the valves opened and wobbled a bit, but nothing violently or excessively noisy. At higher airflows, the valves did flutter very badly and noise got quite loud and whoopie sounding. I had a pressure regulator on the air inlet and the lower setting was around 10 psi with the air flowing, and the higher was 40 psi. I also did 20 psi, and the results were in the middle like the pressure.

When done, I took the pump apart and looked at the valves, and some did show some minor stretching that hadn't been there before at on the edges, more like ripples. This was an old pump, but the ripples were new, and might go away over time.

I still use air to blow out the water, and sometimes add pink stuff if we are going to be in very cold weather for a while, but I only use up to 10 psi on the compressor and listen for any noise from the pump. This may explain why a lot of instructions say to use 10-20 psi, although they don't usually say if that is with the air flowing or not, when the systems can easily handle double that pressure.

We haven't had any issues doing it this way.

[<<B-Guy>>]

Originally Posted by booster

We have used both pink and blowout without any problems in our C190P Roadtrek, but of course a sample of on proves nothing

I can say from personal experience that if you use pink stuff, and then drain or blow it back out (so it is much faster to dewinterize when you get out of freezing weather) you can get pink stuff sort of drying in areas that have mostly drained or left a film of it. The major place this can be an issue is on the rubber valves and check valve in the fresh water pump, as they can be stuck open or shut because of the pink goo. This happened to us, and it took a long, long, time of fresh water flushing from shore water to get the pump to start working again.

I did also bench test one of the common statements about blowing out with compressed air on an old pump. The reasoning is that the compressed air will blow through the pump valves, which is correct, and that it can cause the thin rubber valves to flutter and possibly tear or stretch out of shape. I windowed spots on the pump outlet cap so I could actually see the valves, and more importantly hear if they were making lots of noise like a whoopie cushion.

The results were not all that surprising, I think, in that it was very airflow dependent, and indirectly pressure dependent (pressure generates the airflow). At low airflows, the valves opened and wobbled a bit, but nothing violently or excessively noisy. At higher airflows, the valves did flutter very badly and noise got quite loud and whoopie sounding. I had a pressure regulator on the air inlet and the lower setting was around 10 psi with the air flowing, and the higher was 40 psi. I also did 20 psi, and the results were in the middle like the pressure.

When done, I took the pump apart and looked at the valves, and some did show some minor stretching that hadn't been there before at on the edges, more like ripples. This was an old pump, but the ripples were new, and might go away over time.

I still use air to blow out the water, and sometimes add pink stuff if we are going to be in very cold weather for a while, but I only use up to 10 psi on the compressor and listen for any noise from the pump. This may explain why a lot of instructions say to use 10-20 psi, although they don't usually say if that is with the air flowing or not, when the systems can easily handle double that pressure.

We haven't had any issues doing it this way.

Interesting and sensible idea about flushing with teh pink bu nt leaving it in all winter! I had never thought of that and may give it a try.


As for the pump issue I am a bit surprised i I'm pretty sure our pump has a built in check valve on the outlet so as to stop city water pressure back flowing through the pump and filling / overflowing the fresh water tank.

That is what happened with our trailer last winter (Shureflo pump). Now fixed.

Wouldn't this equally stop air going back through the pump when you hook an air compressor up to your city water inlet? Just wondering - it seems not fro what you say and your tests.

I normally use 20 psi or so when I blow the lines with a 2hp compressor.

Brian.

[GeorgeRa]

One benefit of Cassette is fully independent 4 gal. flush water system which can be used in winterized state. In my previous RV I often used pink stuff in u-traps but pressurized air for the rest of the system.

In my current situation I have the best winterizing system, the garage.

[booster]

Originally Posted by Wingeezer

Interesting and sensible idea about flushing with teh pink bu nt leaving it in all winter! I had never thought of that and may give it a try.


As for the pump issue I am a bit surprised i I'm pretty sure our pump has a built in check valve on the outlet so as to stop city water pressure back flowing through the pump and filling / overflowing the fresh water tank.

That is what happened with our trailer last winter (Shureflo pump). Now fixed.

Wouldn't this equally stop air going back through the pump when you hook an air compressor up to your city water inlet? Just wondering - it seems not fro what you say and your tests.

I normally use 20 psi or so when I blow the lines with a 2hp compressor.

Brian.

Depending on how it is plumbed, and where various valves are positioned, air can go through the pump the normal direction, as the pump has simple poppet valves that aren't mechanically operated.

[<<B-Guy>>]

Originally Posted by GeorgeRa

One benefit of Cassette is fully independent 4 gal. flush water system which can be used in winterized state. In my previous RV I often used pink stuff in u-traps but pressurized air for the rest of the system.

In my current situation I have the best winterizing system, the garage.

Hi George,

I really do think the cassette could work for us especially as we always have a "pee only" rule in our RV's.

In fact I can see some advantages - for example if we found that wwe were often using the van for day trips, picnics, hikes etc. it would be very handy to be able to dump the tanks at home.

But for other reasons I think it not too likely we will opt for teh Aktv so it won't be an issue.


I'm not really keen on having a macerator as I like to keep things as simple and failure proof as possible. If O have to have one with a macerator I would hope that I could modify it as a dual dump in case of emergencies otherwise I can see being stuck and not able to dump the tanks until a damaged macerator is fixed.

But then again if I understand what you can do with a macerator, I suppose I could probably dump the tanks at home with an extension hose via our garage to the adjacent powder room - that could be handy! Always two sides to every coin!

Brian

[indoorsy]

Just back from Toronto... haven't been able to read everything yet, can't wait to catch up. Watching the Patriots - witnessed Amendola miraculously getting two feet down with under three minutes to go. Good Lord! These Patriots make my heart skip a beat. I digress.

I think I'm letting the layout and feel of the RV dictate whether i get a cassette or black tank toilet. I can see the pros and cons of each. Currently, I am smitten over the Aktiv 2.0 and I can justify the cassette as a result. I think it would be a #1 van unless there were extreme extenuating circumstances. That is what the Russo's do. They live in it full time - if they can manage it, so can I (we).

As for the winterization of either using a compressor and putting stress on the lines or using antifreeze in the fresh water supply. Neither sounds like a great option. I hadn't focused in my earlier message on the implications.. I use a Berkey Filter at home and would take it on the road.

Can adequate flushing be done at the beginning of the season to ensure that the system is free of chemicals? I care about myself but care far more about my children.

[BBQ]

.

Do check out the respective model's FB groups.
They are "private" groups, so they tend to speak their minds more freely.
You can get more personal feedbacks than on an open forum.

[indoorsy]

Originally Posted by BBQ

.

Do check out the respective model's FB groups.
They are "private" groups, so they tend to speak their minds more freely.
You can get more personal feedbacks than on an open forum.

Thank you for the suggestion. I have just done this and oh my... it's not all puppies and rainbows over there

[mumkin]

Originally Posted by indoorsy

Thank you for the suggestion. I have just done this and oh my... it's not all puppies and rainbows over there

Actually it isn't here either. LOL But what you have on the Activ owners page and the RT/Hymer owners page are mostly people who have or have had problems. Those with no problems don't feel the need to be there all the time.

If you want rainbows and puppies, there is always the Roadtreking group which is mainly PR and many of us have been banned for merely reporting a problem and asking for help.

Something for everyone on Facebook.