LTV Wonder vs. RT Zion vs. Hymer Aktiv 1 or 2

[cruisefx]

Originally Posted by Wingeezer

Great info, many thanks - that makes the Lexor look even to be a better choice for us!

I was interested in your comment about moving the tv up front - just curious what model B you have and if the TV can now be seen from both the rear and front of the van by two people. That seems the ideal arrangement to me - unless you have two tv's as in the Plateau FL.

I believe the Travato 59K positions the tv just aft of the sliding door so it can be seen from either end - although the Travato with its rear bathroom has a really open layout so makes this a natural.

Cheers ........ Brian. (Burlington Ont.)

(I noticed that Dave and Irene ("Carey on Vagabond vlog") are headed to Tampa in their Zion so perhaps they will have a video too.)

I have a 2004 Roadtrek 190 Versatile. They don't make them anymore. We have 4 seats up front. Behind the second row driver side there is a wall separating the seating from the galley. We installed a swivel mount there for a TV/monitor because we still work so we can swivel the driver seat to use a table that we installed. The van came with a table that is installed in the aisle so that all four seats use it but we found our table more useful. It is removable. So for meals, we use the table as shown. For evening TV watching, table is removed, we swivel the front seats and the TV/monitor is pulled into the hallway for viewing. The seats may be old but they are very comfy. With the 2 row seats, we both can stretch out and use the second row as footstools. If one of us needs to work with a laptop and a second monitor, then they sit in the driver seat swivelled and the monitor is up against the wall. We don't watch TV in bed but if needed, our swivel will allow it to be viewed from the back. It's one or the other. As mentioned, we leave the bed down. It is not an electric sofa so there is a bit more work to assemble. We replaced the rear cushions with memory foam. It is readily available for naps when required!

If/when we were to change our rig, we would be looking for the ability to use the front seats swivelled.

p.s. We are in Newmarket, ON

[<<B-Guy>>]

Originally Posted by cruisefx

I have a 2004 Roadtrek 190 Versatile. They don't make them anymore. We have 4 seats up front. Behind the second row driver side there is a wall separating the seating from the galley. We installed a swivel mount there for a TV/monitor because we still work so we can swivel the driver seat to use a table that we installed. The van came with a table that is installed in the aisle so that all four seats use it but we found our table more useful. It is removable. So for meals, we use the table as shown. For evening TV watching, table is removed, we swivel the front seats and the TV/monitor is pulled into the hallway for viewing. The seats may be old but they are very comfy. With the 2 row seats, we both can stretch out and use the second row as footstools. If one of us needs to work with a laptop and a second monitor, then they sit in the driver seat swivelled and the monitor is up against the wall. We don't watch TV in bed but if needed, our swivel will allow it to be viewed from the back. It's one or the other. As mentioned, we leave the bed down. It is not an electric sofa so there is a bit more work to assemble. We replaced the rear cushions with memory foam. It is readily available for naps when required!

If/when we were to change our rig, we would be looking for the ability to use the front seats swivelled.

p.s. We are in Newmarket, ON

Thanks Cruisefx!

One of our daughters and her family are also in Newmaket!

I believe RT still make the 190 (as well as the 210) but both called the
"Popular" - I assume they have a different layout than yours.

In our search for a "B" to suit our needs, I have both those models on our short list but have yet to be inside either.

I can certainly appreciate the design features of having a front lounge separate from the rear lounge/sleeping area, as long as it can properly swivel and seat two, and ideally have some sort of functioning table arrangement for eating and ideally, the possibility of tv viewing from either area.

Brian.

[GeorgeRa]

We copied Safari Condo with a cassette toilet behind the passenger seat. It has 2 functions, the obvious one - a pot, and an ottoman, so it is a potoman. It is good for both front seats, we love it. This is my wife’s perfect reading spot. One picture is from Safari Condo and another one is ours. For us it was perfect option without a need for indoor shower in lieu of 360-degree visibility.

[dhuff]

Originally Posted by AlexJ

The Safari Condo XL Flex (Promaster or Sprinter) is a beautiful, well thought out, quality build from Quebec. They will be at the Montreal and Quebec RV shows. Seats up to 4, Sleeps up to 5. We love ours.

I forgot to mention the Safari Condo. Their "Flex" floorplan really seems nice, and a friend of a friend here in Texas has one and can't stop raving about how much he likes it (always good to get those personal recommendations). Like the LTV, it has a nice, modern interior design and (apparently) good build quality. Also has 2nd row forward facing seats with real three-point belts - in a similar setup to the Aktiv. But you could get one add'l adult back there comfortably I think. Their wet bath is also supposed to be pretty large for a B-class.

Dealing with them might be a bit more of a hassle, as they seem oriented to the Canadian market and need you to supply a U.S. spec Ram Promaster if you want them to build one for you to own in the States. But I hear this is offset by them being a very pleasant company to deal with. Family-owned, said to have lots of integrity, etc...

[<<B-Guy>>]

Originally Posted by GeorgeRa

We copied Safari Condo with a cassette toilet behind the passenger seat. It has 2 functions, the obvious one - a pot, and an ottoman, so it is a potoman. It is good for both front seats, we love it. This is my wife’s perfect reading spot. One picture is from Safari Condo and another one is ours. For us it was perfect option without a need for indoor shower in lieu of 360-degree visibility.

Looks nice and comfy, but I'm having a hard time convincing my wife we should downsize from 31 ft Airstream trailer and I think I'm convincing her, but if I had to tell her she would no longer have a private bathroom and shower, it would be game over! She isn't even thrilled with the concept of a wet bath!


I think if we needed some sort of foot rest I would think of making up some sort of folding campstool type configuration of appropriate dimensions with a canvas sling top that could be folded and stored out of the way someplace when not needed as a footrest!

Brian

[Phoebe3]

Originally Posted by Wingeezer

Looks nice and comfy, but I'm having a hard time convincing my wife we should downsize from 31 ft Airstream trailer ...

Brian

Wow, you're pretty skilled! If I had to perform the hook-up, drive, park and maintain a 31 ft trailer, I would attempt that exactly once and then decide I wanted a smaller vehicle!

[BBQ]

.

Trailer vs Class B


It boils down to how you want to spend your time...

stay at a park for weeks/months?

or

roam the country and explore the surprises.

[GeorgeRa]

Persuasion could be easy, change responsibilities for common tasks like cooking and driving/hooking up the trailer.
When we changed our even smaller 21' trailer my better half knew, I had enough.

[<<B-Guy>>]

Originally Posted by GeorgeRa

Persuasion could be easy, change responsibilities for common tasks like cooking and driving/hooking up the trailer.
When we changed our even smaller 21' trailer my better half knew, I had enough.

That is sort of the position I feel I am getting into! My better half isn't entirely thrilled with the prospect of a change but understands that as the years roll by I am getting a bit more stressed as we travel with the larger RV - always wondering if I will have trouble parking the rig etc.

It is fine if we always stick with the large RV resorts with pull through sites, but I always also like state and provincial parks and some of those can be quite a challenge - these days I get more stressed when I am blocking everyone on the camgpround access roads with repeated attempts to get the trailer into tight back in sites.

As well, we do like to travel more than staying in one spot.

The other big advantage I see is being able to keep a class B in our drive for most if not all of the year.

At present we store our trailer a half hour from the house for $1000 a year.

It isn't so much the storage fee, but I am convinced we would use the RV much more if it was on our doorstep. I won't consider bringing the trailer home to clan and pack for a trip unless we are going for a week's trip at the very least

So I am thinking that a switch to a B might be a nice way to wind up our
RV'ing days - and possibly extend them bu a couple of years.

Brian

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by Wingeezer

It isn't so much the storage fee, but I am convinced we would use the RV much more if it was on our doorstep. I won't consider bringing the trailer home to clan and pack for a trip unless we are going for a week's trip at the very least

It's very simple: if your boat, your plane or your RV isn't parked within 50 feet of your home, it ain't worth having.

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by Wingeezer

That is sort of the position I feel I am getting into! My better half isn't entirely thrilled with the prospect of a change but understands that as the years roll by I am getting a bit more stressed as we travel with the larger RV - always wondering if I will have trouble parking the rig etc.

It is fine if we always stick with the large RV resorts with pull through sites, but I always also like state and provincial parks and some of those can be quite a challenge - these days I get more stressed when I am blocking everyone on the camgpround access roads with repeated attempts to get the trailer into tight back in sites.

As well, we do like to travel more than staying in one spot.

The other big advantage I see is being able to keep a class B in our drive for most if not all of the year.

At present we store our trailer a half hour from the house for $1000 a year.

It isn't so much the storage fee, but I am convinced we would use the RV much more if it was on our doorstep. I won't consider bringing the trailer home to clan and pack for a trip unless we are going for a week's trip at the very least

So I am thinking that a switch to a B might be a nice way to wind up our
RV'ing days - and possibly extend them bu a couple of years.

Brian

Over 40 years ago we started with Westfalias, went full loop with various sizes RVs and boats until we slowed down to very infrequent trips. Unfortunate reality realization hit hard that with age jumping on a dock or tightening equalizing bars are not as easy as before, and is not going to get better. So, we made the decision to close this circle with a van recalling a very good experience we had with Westfalias. It was a good decision. RV trips today are only inhibited by the lack of time.

[<<B-Guy>>]

Originally Posted by cruising7388

It's very simple: if your boat, your plane or your RV isn't parked within 50 feet of your home, it ain't worth having.

I think your right! Probably wont have to worry about space for a plane though!

Brian.

[<<B-Guy>>]

Originally Posted by GeorgeRa

Over 40 years ago we started with Westfalias, went full loop with various sizes RVs and boats until we slowed down to very infrequent trips. Unfortunate reality realization hit hard that with age jumping on a dock or tightening equalizing bars are not as easy as before, and is not going to get better. So, we made the decision to close this circle with a van recalling a very good experience we had with Westfalias. It was a good decision. RV trips today are only inhibited by the lack of time.

Coincidentally, we too started with a Westfalia (1971 I think) after several tents that is!

We could be going full circle - well, probably not tents at this stage.

I did buy another tent just a few years ago intending to do some motorcycle camping and I built a small trailer to pull behind the bike.

We soon found that at our age it was not very practical, and that it was far more enjoyable to have a nice shower, enjoy a few G&T's at a hotel or motel after a long day in the saddle. My wife was quick to agree, so teh light weight tent and sleeping bags got used on just one trip!

The home built trailer was still handy behind the bike though for longer trips with two of us traveling!

I sold the bike last summer as I felt that after 60 years on two wheels with never an accident, I was pushing my luck!

The timing was uncanny - a few weeks later one of my riding chums, ten years my senior at 85 years old and riding a 140hp Kawasaki sport bike met an untimely end. I had tried to talk him into calling it quits as I had done.

Sad (as Donald would say!)

Brian.

[indoorsy]

I've been driving to and from Toronto so just catching up. I asked the Hymer rep about winterization requirements - he explained about flushing antifreeze through the system but said keep it with you and use it. I like that... the weather isn't always terrible in the north east.... put some snow tires on it maybe? I am struggling already with all the expenses would prefer not to add $250 per month for climate control storage -- I guess it was a slow dawning that I'd be paying regular insurance and potentially RV insurance too. Plus 6,25% mass tax when I register it (taxachusetts). It all adds up, if I can cross winter storage off the list that'd be a plus

[<<B-Guy>>]

Originally Posted by indoorsy

I've been driving to and from Toronto so just catching up. I asked the Hymer rep about winterization requirements - he explained about flushing antifreeze through the system but said keep it with you and use it. I like that... the weather isn't always terrible in the north east.... put some snow tires on it maybe? I am struggling already with all the expenses would prefer not to add $250 per month for climate control storage -- I guess it was a slow dawning that I'd be paying regular insurance and potentially RV insurance too. Plus 6,25% mass tax when I register it (taxachusetts). It all adds up, if I can cross winter storage off the list that'd be a plus

To me, one of the main advantages of getting a "B" van is that I can keep it at home and use it as a second vehicle.

Of course you still need to winterise the plumbing system if there is danger of freezing temperatures - but in a pinch you could still even camp in it in the winter if need be - just leave the antifreeze in the plumbing and take jugs of water with you. If you use the toilet, flush it with plumbing antifreeze.

We head south with our trailer from the Toronto area each winter - will be leaving in a couple of weeks.

On the trip south, certainly for the first day, and sometimes the second, we keep the antifreeze in the system, but we stop overnight and sleep in the trailer at Flying J truck stops and do as described above. Because, unlike a van, our trailer has no built in generator we carry a small Honda generator for power at these initial overnight stops works out fine!

Depending on where you live, you may find that you are not allowed to park an RV in your driveway during winter months. That is how things are where we live, however I talked to the bylaw officer and was sold "Off the record" that they only enforce the bylaw if someone complains, so as long as you get on with your neighbours I doubt you'd likely have a problem with a van camper.

In anticipation of buying one, I have spoken with our neighbours and none seem to care at all!

Brian

[Phoebe3]

The RV antifreeze leaves an odor in the system. Some people use compressed air to flush out the lines (be sure to empty the water heater and bypass it when you flush). Then there's no water in the lines to freeze. If you travel in the winter, use antifreeze (the pink stuff) to flush if you use the toilet and drink bottled water.

If you can park next to your house, you can plug in and either use the RV heater (if you have an electric one) or put a small space heater in the van. If you use a full cover, you might be able to get away with running a 100W light bulb to keep it above freezing, but it depends on the ambient temp and the insulation power of the cover. If I were new to RVs, I might plan on buying in the spring (or taking deliver then) so that I had a few months to become familiar with the systems before winterizing.

There is a lot to learn and the learning curve is pretty steep. We got insurance through our regular company (State Farm) and it wasn't much more than a comparably-priced car. We were also hit with California sales tax (about 8.25%) but registration was only about 1% of the value.

[<<B-Guy>>]

Originally Posted by Phoebe3

The RV antifreeze leaves an odor in the system. Some people use compressed air to flush out the lines (be sure to empty the water heater and bypass it when you flush). Then there's no water in the lines to freeze. If you travel in the winter, use antifreeze (the pink stuff) to flush if you use the toilet and drink bottled water.

If you can park next to your house, you can plug in and either use the RV heater (if you have an electric one) or put a small space heater in the van. If you use a full cover, you might be able to get away with running a 100W light bulb to keep it above freezing, but it depends on the ambient temp and the insulation power of the cover. If I were new to RVs, I might plan on buying in the spring (or taking deliver then) so that I had a few months to become familiar with the systems before winterizing.

There is a lot to learn and the learning curve is pretty steep. We got insurance through our regular company (State Farm) and it wasn't much more than a comparably-priced car. We were also hit with California sales tax (about 8.25%) but registration was only about 1% of the value.

If I am winterising our trailer at home where I have a good size compressor, I generally do both - air then antifreeze. I guess it is sort of a belt and suspenders approach, but it is said that depending on the piping arrangement, if you just use air, there is still the "chance" of residual water pooling somelplace in the system and causing problems.

I've done it so many times now it probably doesn't take me more than about 15 minutes and about 1.5 gals of plumbing antifreeze at $5 a gal.

Even though I regularly flush our fresh water tank with chlorine solution and also use a a Camco activated carbon filter on the city water hose when hooked up, we still generally use bottled water for drinking/cooking, and only use water from the trailer for drinking if we run short.

We do use the trailer water of course for showers, washing toilet flush etc.

Until a few years ago when my wife decided she liked to use bottled water, we always used to use the trailer water for drinking and truth to tell, never really noticed residual antifreeze taste - but I always did flush it pretty thoroughly.

Brian

[avanti]

A properly-done blowout winterization is perfectly safe. I speak from 13 years of experience in Pennsylvania winters. Why anyone would want to put that pink stuff in their fresh water system is totally beyond me

[<<B-Guy>>]

Originally Posted by avanti

A properly-done blowout winterization is perfectly safe. I speak from 13 years of experience in Pennsylvania winters. Why anyone would want to put that pink stuff in their fresh water system is totally beyond me

Well, some say yes, some say no! Personally i don't know - it may depend on your particular piping layout. Many many people do use the "Pink stuff!"

The way I look at it is that I am just not going to risk possible complicated repairs
for the sake of a few more minutes and few dollars worth of antifreeze!

Years ago when we had a UK designed lightweight travel trailer that had an extremely basic water system (No HW tank, no shower, just a porta potti etc.) I just used to blow the city water line - never an issue.

Once we moved on to trailers with full plumbing systems, I started using the antifreeze - initially, I would just use the antifreeze to push the water out of the pipes.

Then more recently, I started first blowing the lines, and then pumping in the antifreeze.

Why do I use both methods? I am a bit colour blind, and if I just used the antifreeze to push the water out, I had to rely on my wife to tell me when the taps were running pink! Now I don't have that problem!

I can well believe that you haven't had a problem in 13 years, and I suppose our temperatures in Southern Ontario are probably similar to years so it is surely just a personal preference .

I like the certainty that when I pull the trailer out of the snow to head for Arizona or Florida, that when I get there, I won't have to begin our stay by sorting out plumbing issues!

Presume you do put some sort of antifreeze in any sink and shower traps?

I used to also put plumbing antifreeze in the toilet bowl, but found it would sometimes cause seal problems, so now I just use a bit of veg. oil in the toilet bowl and that appears to have solved the problem. I think you can also by special stuff for that purpose (at typical Camping World prices!)

Brian.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by Wingeezer

Well, some say yes, some say no! Personally i don't know - it may depend on your particular piping layout. Many many people do use the "Pink stuff!"

Some say a lot of things. I know of no evidence suggesting that a proper blowout isn't totally effective for any RV plumbing configuration. If you are willing to learn the technique and able to execute it correctly, you will be fine.

My guess is that the source of "many many people" using the pink stuff is principally due to the belief by manufacturers that this technique is easier for unsophisticated owners to follow reliably. This belief may well be correct. My advice is always modified by the proviso "properly executed". Blowouts may not be for everybody, but it has nothing to to efficacy.

Presume you do put some sort of antifreeze in any sink and shower traps?

Yes, of course. But this is a far cry from introducing it into the fresh system, which IMO is just gross, even ignoring the pointless rigmarole. I often dewinterize several times in the course of a winter (we are 4-season campers, and use all systems, even in the winter). This adds up to a lot of saved hassle and cost.

I used to also put plumbing antifreeze in the toilet bowl, but found it would sometimes cause seal problems, so now I just use a bit of veg. oil in the toilet bowl and that appears to have solved the problem. I think you can also by special stuff for that purpose (at typical Camping World prices!)

That is an interesting theory. Is it the pink stuff that you think may cause problems, or something else? I have always just left a puddle of pink in the toilet, thinking it would keep the seals from drying out, and then spraying with silicone lubricant in the spring. I hope I am not doing more harm than good.