Lot's of possible floor plans with Promaster

[wincrasher]

what do you think of this floor plan? Video at the bottom of the page.

http://www.shiremotorhomes.co.uk/#!p...xl-studio/cea7

Actually has an oven! Assume this has a cassette toilet, which saves a big space that would go to a black tank.

Another more in-depth video -

http://www.shiremotorhomes.co.uk/#!p...-reviews/c20e4

[gerrym51]

this is a very usable for two floorplan. Travato makers should use this one

[wincrasher]

Yeah, the more I look at it, the more I like it. There is also a neat twins floor plan if you explore their site.

If you are touring or just weekending, these would be great. You could easily go no generator and just carry a portable if you boondock and need AC. I'd pass on the wine cooler though - I drink red.

[Davydd]

It looks suitable for one person, not two. Once again the bed is not wide enough and a crawl over with two people. The plan is more like a small travel trailer than a class B. It is nice there is that wide sliding door view but there better be a screen on it. With the sliding door closed and the back end closed off it is cavernous with the small windows.

It struck me while sitting on my couch at home typing this with my head up against the back cushion. There are few, if any, RVs that have comfortable couches with those flat removable for filler back rests. No slam against this one. It seems that is a trait of all RVs. Interesting complaint about the TV but, if two people in the B I think I would rather be in the adjustable turned around seats with foot stools than sitting upright on that couch.

It is generous with the sinks but chintzy with the microwave and refrigerator. The range and stove is overkill. Not sure about the wine cooler. Did he say it needed shore power? Bathroom is a wet bath shower? Cassette toilet is a non-starter. The pouch pockets in the back were kind of weird. In America, this would be a weekender, not a tourer.

[gerrym51]

Originally Posted by Davydd

It looks suitable for one person, not two. Once again the bed is not wide enough and a crawl over with two people. The plan is more like a small travel trailer than a class B. It is nice there is that wide sliding door view but there better be a screen on it. With the sliding door closed and the back end closed off it is cavernous with the small windows.

It struck me while sitting on my couch at home typing this with my head up against the back cushion. There are few, if any, RVs that have comfortable couches with those flat removable for filler back rests. No slam against this one. It seems that is a trait of all RVs. Interesting complaint about the TV but, if two people in the B I think I would rather be in the adjustable turned around seats with foot stools than sitting upright on that couch.

It is generous with the sinks but chintzy with the microwave and refrigerator. The range and stove is overkill. Not sure about the wine cooler. Did he say it needed shore power? Bathroom is a wet bath shower? Cassette toilet is a non-starter. The pouch pockets in the back were kind of weird. In America, this would be a weekender, not a tourer.

Davydd-i think your becoming a curmudgeon

[wincrasher]

I'd disagree with several of your points.

It's a far more cavernous feeling sitting on a sofa in a back of a van than one in the front. Especially one facing that big door. I agree it needs a screen door like the Travato. It's certainly big enough for two to lounge on it enjoying coffee and the paper, or to stretch out at take a lazy nap.

I'd say the microwave it the overkill. I'd loose that and get a bigger refrigerator. I'd also loose the wine cooler.

If you make a couch with a reclining back, you have to loose floor space. Angled cushions don't work either, as you need them for filler. They do have a twins floor plan that may be more to your liking. It doesn't give a dimension on the double bed, but you can see that there is still walk-by space with it extended, which is nice. Most likely it's 46-48" wide.

I do like the multi use table with the pedestal you can move around or use outside. That's a cool feature.

I go back and forth on the cassette toilet. Kinda grossed out by it, but then again, not a deal breaker. I can see that it could be handy. But it's only 5 gallons. 3 or 4 days use tops. Several of the expedition class vehicles are using them - like the Tiger.

I'd order this van with the AC option, just to have it. No generator needed, as everything else is propane.

[booster]

I guess I look at a lot of the "new" floorplans as awfully similar to the "old" floorpans. There we lots of side/front sleepers out there before the current crop of rear sleepers. Some had the kitchen in the rear, some the bathroom, just like the new stuff. We can only guess why the old styles went away, but obviously they did not sell as well as the rear sleepers or they would still be popular. It will be interesting to see if the front/side sleepers make a comeback.

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by gerrym51

Davydd-i think your becoming a curmudgeon

Maybe. But I would like to see two people living in this for say 3 months on the road. A 46" wide crawl over bed is torture for two people long term in America used to king and queen beds as standard now. On top of that, it is once again an either or live or sleep inside situation. Look, Bs have their comfort limitations but you could not survive in this one in the south without air conditioning. It is too confining with no natural ventilation. If it had AC running or if it was raining it would be cavernous with the sliding door closed. It is a one person B or a two people for a week or two vacation mode, but as a long term tourer for two people I would not even remotely consider it.

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by wincrasher

It's a far more cavernous feeling sitting on a sofa in a back of a van than one in the front. Especially one facing that big door. I agree it needs a screen door like the Travato. It's certainly big enough for two to lounge on it enjoying coffee and the paper, or to stretch out at take a lazy nap.

What originally attracted me to the Sprinter was this photo of the 2006 Roadtrek Adventurous. This is the older model but as you can see most Sprinters with back sofas have large windows from front to back and all around the sofa with four operable window vents for cross ventilation.

If you make a couch with a reclining back, you have to loose floor space. Angled cushions don't work either, as you need them for filler. They do have a twins floor plan that may be more to your liking. It doesn't give a dimension on the double bed, but you can see that there is still walk-by space with it extended, which is nice. Most likely it's 46-48" wide.

You can rationalize why a couch is the way it is but it doesn't make it good. It is an uncomfortable couch as far as couches go when the backs are designed to be filler mattresses. That is a fault of many RVs, especially RVs with side couches. BTW, the back electric sofas can be adjusted to get the back to recline if you want it that way. They also generally have taller and more comfortable backs than the filler mattress kind. Also, the ottomans that come with them make comfortable foot rests. They are king/queen size beds but what I don't like about them is you don't have to crawl over but you do still have to crawl out of them.

I do like the multi use table with the pedestal you can move around or use outside. That's a cool feature.

You can buy portable and collapsible pedestals that will fit the standard table pole that goes into a built in floor receptor. We are going to do that with our next B since we rarely use the table. The floor receptors that stick up are trip overs and the ones that are flush are dirt collectors and not too friendly with bare feet. At our Kansas B Happening last week one couple had settled on using inexpensive TV tray tables instead of their RV table.

[wincrasher]

Not trying to beat a dead horse here, find people's different takes on layouts very interesting.

Some folks don't mind a crawl over bed, I know I don't if I'm on the outside. But it appears it could be made a bit wider with some filler cushions. I think for 2 people, the minimum you'd want is 50". Looking at the construction of this sofa bed (all wood), it could easily be re-engineered to be a bit deeper. The twin arrangement looks pretty good - instead of that foldup table, they have a small sofa that slides out into a twin.

If you look at the video, there are two large skylights - one over the lounge, one over the bath, plus a fantastic vent over the galley.
Plus, this one has the tip-out style windows on both sides of the coach. So on a rainy day, I'd think it would be alright, and have plenty of ventilation. If you got the AC unit, you probably are going to have to loose the galley ventilator, which I think is problematic. You'd then HAVE to have a range hood. Possibly you could move the fantastic fan vent a bit forward and still not loose the skylight. That's a lot of holes in one roof!

I wish they'd put one of those skylights in the Travato over the front area. It would really brighten it up.

But not to say you couldn't get the version of this van that is all glass down both sides (when you can get it) and put this interior in it. I got the link from a site where people are talking about doing their own conversions. This van is full of ideas for those guys to use. Check out the second video - the lighting is a lot better and they go over some of the details. Really like some of the things they did in the cabinets.

Yes, in the south you gotta have AC, duh. I'd say you need it most everywhere. But whether you need to plan on using it on genset power, or shore power is where your usage pattern comes in. If you are traveling against the seasons, then you really aren't going to run in on genset power, since you need it on 24/7. But then again, we are just assuming that this van can't be fitted with a generator. I may be able to the same way the Travato does. Since you have no black tank, and the cassette is above the floor, there may be more room underneath for a generator. But if I were ordering this van, I'd opt to carry a Yamaha 2000 instead, as I've proven it will run the AC, if needed. That is the only thing you need a generator for, as with 2 house batteries and lp, you could stay out quite a long time in this one.

[gerrym51]

Originally Posted by booster

I guess I look at a lot of the "new" floorplans as awfully similar to the "old" floorpans. There we lots of side/front sleepers out there before the current crop of rear sleepers. Some had the kitchen in the rear, some the bathroom, just like the new stuff. We can only guess why the old styles went away, but obviously they did not sell as well as the rear sleepers or they would still be popular. It will be interesting to see if the front/side sleepers make a comeback.

the best'sleeping 'van models are the rear 'dinette or powered sofa' like Roadtrek 190 etc. i picked roadtrek because most of their models are like this.there are others.

my words to wincrasher was that it was a more viable floorplan for 2 than the current Travato-which i think is not a good floorplan for 2.

[wincrasher]

I was on my way towards a Roadtrek 190 or Pleasureway Lexor until I looked at them at an RV show. Sitting down in the back, it was fine. But entering and exiting, I hit my head in the doorway. Thought I had a concussion for a bit.

When I discovered the Travato, it was a no-brainer. It was much cheaper, and I could walk around in it. It ain't perfect, that's for sure, as no RV is. It will do for now. It's my starter van.

Not to diss those other vans, they hit all my hot buttons on paper, but when I actually got to sit in one, I knew it wasn't for me - even as a single weekender kind of user.

[gerrym51]

Wincrasher-floor plan for 2 is our only point If it was just me i would consider Travato

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by booster

I guess I look at a lot of the "new" floorplans as awfully similar to the "old" floorpans. There we lots of side/front sleepers out there before the current crop of rear sleepers. Some had the kitchen in the rear, some the bathroom, just like the new stuff. We can only guess why the old styles went away, but obviously they did not sell as well as the rear sleepers or they would still be popular. It will be interesting to see if the front/side sleepers make a comeback.

Anyone else have a mid-bed sleeper now other than the Coach House Arriva?

[gerrym51]

Originally Posted by Davydd

Anyone else have a mid-bed sleeper now other than the Coach House Arriva?

only sportsmobile has this plan as far as i know

[wincrasher]

I don't think I'd care for the mid-bed. It's a lot of seating in sofa mode, but you'd be knocking feet with persons across from you.

If you put the beds together to make a double, then you are crawling in from the front, then crawling out to go to the bathroom.

It could be a bit better if the bathroom size was reduced and you could move the sofas rearward and made the kitchen area larger.

You could also tighten up that bathroom size and put in another bulkhead and make a garage area, or cupboard space in the rear. Keeping the center aisle way would still allow you to put long items in the van, like a 14' kayak, or a couple bikes.

[Davydd]

With the Arriva I think you have some bed options. You can join them to make a full king about 70" wide or you can have two 28" twin beds with an aisle between. So, in theory you could throw the kayak in there, but let's be serious, that is a short term travel situation of going from home to a single destination. It would get extremely arduous to tour that way.

There is enough room in the back one could probably come up with several design solutions. One would be a wet bath on one side with a humongous garage storage on the other side.

The ideal B in my mind is a well zoned B for two people and a B that doesn't have to depend on convertible functions. I've arrived at this after a lot of travel. I used to think the electric sofa was cool. But it becomes an either or situation. Also, as a sofa it has to be low enough to sit on. The Winnebago ERA showed everyone else how much wasted storage space was sacrificed for that convenience with their bed about as high as your home box spring bed.

The plus on the Arriva is it is zoned well to allow two people to do separate activities (sleep and up and about.) Most Sprinter Bs can achieve the same but some either insist on seating for more than two people or push the cabinets up tight to the driver's seat to make it really impractical to turn around and use functionally. Yes, as small as Bs are it is rather short sighted not to fully use the cab seats in a functional manner. The Arriva did a good job creating an office like desk environment with the driver's seat.

For two people in a B you have to think about a lot of things for function and compatibility. For a singe person there is a lot more freedom in design. One is a shorter model becomes more feasible but no converter truly tries to optimize their models for a single person. For a family it gets even more difficult but fortunately a family will use the B as a vacation or weekender, and probably only that, and still feel they are getting more than a tent, trailer or other solutions with say the freedom to have an all day living base at a Disney World parking lot or on the road convenience. Heck, no problem going to a McDonalds with the kids.

[wincrasher]

Agree 100%.

It's too bad you couldn't reconfigure an interior based on "missions" you may have in mind. I suppose some kind of modular packages could be made so you could reconfigure the layout based on your use at the time. You'd give up a lot to achieve that, probably not making it worth the effort.

I don't take my yak on every adventure. But I like the idea I could if I had a destination in mind. I also don't carry bikes each trip either.

I don't see how any B is really suitable for a couple with kids. Even one or two little ones, you would struggle for space. Space to sit, space to sleep,or for clothes or even food. I would think you'd want a layout with just a big open space so you can pile up the gear, suitcases and tents you will need when you get wherever you are going.

Maybe the mid-bed arrangement like the Arriva would be good for them, but if you have flip down bunks instead of the upper cabinets, and that the twin sofas have open space below to use for storage.

If you want to see a silly electric sofa, you need not look farther than the PleasureWay Prestige. It was like a solution looking for a problem. Big open space where you could just flip down the couch. Instead, make it motorized so it takes 30 seconds to put it down.

[Davydd]

Most of my comments are based on converters with set plans and models. You could go to Sportsmobile and configure just about any plan with fewer limitations.

[wincrasher]

Yes I know. I don't really care for their aesthetic. It just looks home grown. Well built and practical I'm sure, but not very pretty in my view.