Loaning your B to a friend

[LesM]

I have an old ('95) Pleasure Way. A good friend has asked if she can rent it. My reply was "No - complicated insurance considerations, but I have let another friend borrow it in the past". This woman friend has lengthy physical medical issues that have hindered her mobility in the past, but does drive her own car. She would "drift" around British Columbia, perhaps for a week or so. i'm struggling with what to tell her, and particularly whether to say yes or no. My principal concerns revolve around driving an old, heavy van, proper adherence to use of propane, ability to dump tanks, proper levelling for fridge, etc. So, reluctant to say "yes" and hard to say "no" - she's keen.
Appreciate any thoughts/experiences you might have. Thanks

[Bud]

Originally Posted by LesM

I have an old ('95) Pleasure Way. A good friend has asked if she can rent it. My reply was "No - complicated insurance considerations, but I have let another friend borrow it in the past". This woman friend has lengthy physical medical issues that have hindered her mobility in the past, but does drive her own car. She would "drift" around British Columbia, perhaps for a week or so. i'm struggling with what to tell her, and particularly whether to say yes or no. My principal concerns revolve around driving an old, heavy van, proper adherence to use of propane, ability to dump tanks, proper levelling for fridge, etc. So, reluctant to say "yes" and hard to say "no" - she's keen.
Appreciate any thoughts/experiences you might have. Thanks

There are basically 2 issues:

Ethics

$'s

Ethics concerning hurting others by her with your assistance.

$'s, what is it likely to cost you?

Hey, just do the right thing.

Sometimes it is not simple, other times it is obvious.

Wishing you the best.

Bud

[BBQ]

.

Simple questions...

1. If something breaks down, who is going to pay for it?

2. If it needs a tow, who is going to pay for it?

3. If a third party gets hurt, who is going to pay for it?

[Johnny R]

Nobody can say 'sorry, no' for you, love.

Lonesome Valley - Words and Music by Woody Guthrie
You gotta walk that lonesome valley,
You gotta walk it by yourself,
Nobody here can walk it for you,
You gotta walk it by yourself.

[Phoebe3]

Even when someone has put me on the spot, I have difficulty with just saying "no" because it's so abrupt. Can you articulate why you will not rent to her but would let someone else borrow it? For example, is your relationship different? Or does the other person have considerable experience with RVs or experience driving a similarly-sized vehicle? Have you borrowed expensive things of theirs?

Would you be willing to rent it for, say, three days, but not feel comfortable letting it go for a week? Will she pay enough in rental fees to justify the time you will spend getting her familiar with the systems and cleaning it when it's returned? You should calculate those costs in the rental fees - it may be more than she wants to pay.

Would you be willing to rent if she demonstrated an understanding of the systems and an ability to make everything work as it should? People unfamiliar with RVs tend to assume it is like a house - you flush the toilet and don't worry about what happens afterward...or you turn on the faucet and get hot water without having to turn on the water heater... or you can take a 20 minute shower without running out of water (or filling the grey tank)...or the refrigerator works without worrying about being level or running out of electricity (or propane). Learning about the requirements and limitations may cause her to rethink her request.

If she has physical issues, can she demonstrate the ability to drive and park and run the systems and empty tanks, etc?

An additional problem may be the ability to make park reservations during the summer.

In the US, if you let someone borrow your vehicle with permission, you are financially responsible, so an accident will affect your insurance. If something really bad happens and you are sued for more than the limits on your policy, you may be personally liable. If you rent the van for payment, you will likely need special insurance and she should be expected to cover the cost. No idea what the Canadian laws are like, but I would expect something similar.

Is there someplace nearby that rents Bs or Cs? You may ferret them out as backup options for her. Once one knows all the ins-and-outs of RV ownership, one finds that it is often cheaper, and a lot less trouble, to stay in a hotel.

[Oliver2017]

Originally Posted by LesM

A good friend has asked if she can rent it...so. i'm struggling with what to tell her... Appreciate any thoughts/experiences you might have. Thanks

Is this good friend married...I'm guessing not...I'm thinking that you are supposed to say no, but you are willing to travel with her ...which might be what she really wants you to say...

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

Originally Posted by LesM

I have an old ('95) Pleasure Way. A good friend has asked if she can rent it. My reply was "No - complicated insurance considerations, but I have let another friend borrow it in the past". This woman friend has lengthy physical medical issues that have hindered her mobility in the past, but does drive her own car. She would "drift" around British Columbia, perhaps for a week or so. i'm struggling with what to tell her, and particularly whether to say yes or no. My principal concerns revolve around driving an old, heavy van, proper adherence to use of propane, ability to dump tanks, proper levelling for fridge, etc. So, reluctant to say "yes" and hard to say "no" - she's keen.
Appreciate any thoughts/experiences you might have. Thanks

You wrote;

This woman friend has lengthy physical medical issues that have hindered her mobility in the past, but does drive her own car.

I don't recommend loaning or renting no matter what.....WHY???

Insurance risk management..... It's a real thing.....

If someone discovers that you think she's unable to handle a vehicle of this size...the outcome will be VERY poor for you if she's involved in an accident....

What medical issues are you talking about exactly???

Do you know this person's driving record...?? Medical issues are the first thing they look at when they decide to suspend or restrict someone's ability to drive ...

Your poor judgement in loaning any car to someone who is not capable of driving it will be devastating...

She drives a car... SO WHAT... that's not an RV....

OH...one final piece of advice... I actually thought about renting out my RV for commercial profit...and looked into what's necessary...

SHORT ANSWER....it requires commercial insurance.. about $1,000 per month....
When I found this out... plus the other obvious risks of having the rig damaged and being out of service...I dismissed it....it's NOT a good idea..,

[Ron J. Moore]

What is wrong with just coming out and saying no, I don't want to lend my vehicle out?

I recently went thru a very similar situation, but with a boat. Neighbor called and said they were having all their family and the grandchildren down to the lake; wanted to "borrow" my pontoon, inasmuch as I haven't used if all that often. That response was NO, and I followed with:
I don't loan my vehicles, because I worked too long and hard for it
I will not allow someone to load a herd of children on there, go out and anchor to swim (plenty deep at the docks). I could imagine a lawsuit big time!
If you anger or loose the friend.....they really weren't a friend. Ron

[MsNomer]

Could you just so happen to be planning to use it the week she wants?

More directly, you just might say that it has a pretty serious learning curve--maybe throw in that it's old and cantankerous--and you wouldn't want her to get stranded somewhere. It would be better for her to rent a newer and more reliable vehicle.

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

Originally Posted by Ron J. Moore

What is wrong with just coming out and saying no, I don't want to lend my vehicle out?

I recently went thru a very similar situation, but with a boat. Neighbor called and said they were having all their family and the grandchildren down to the lake; wanted to "borrow" my pontoon, inasmuch as I haven't used if all that often. That response was NO, and I followed with:
I don't loan my vehicles, because I worked too long and hard for it
I will not allow someone to load a herd of children on there, go out and anchor to swim (plenty deep at the docks). I could imagine a lawsuit big time!
If you anger or loose the friend.....they really weren't a friend. Ron

I agree 100 percent with everything you said.....

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

Originally Posted by MsNomer

Could you just so happen to be planning to use it the week she wants?

More directly, you just might say that it has a pretty serious learning curve--maybe throw in that it's old and cantankerous--and you wouldn't want her to get stranded somewhere. It would be better for her to rent a newer and more reliable vehicle.

You don't have to make excuses or apologize for anything.....

If they had the wherewithal to "rent" an RV like you say... they would have already done it....

The point is..."they can't".....

Just walk away..... it's not your problem and they are just trying to make you feel guilty...

Disgraceful.

[Bruceper]

The easy out answer is "The last time I borrowed out a vehicle it came back damaged and they refused to pay and it ruined our relationship. Now I know you wouldn't refuse to pay but I can't put myself in that awkward position again".

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

Originally Posted by Bruceper

The easy out answer is "The last time I borrowed out a vehicle it came back damaged and they refused to pay and it ruined our relationship. Now I know you wouldn't refuse to pay but I can't put myself in that awkward position again".

Well... that's what insurance is for.... but your "friends" obviously didn't have that or didn't want to report it....SAD....

They weren't your friends....

Let me tell you... one of the people who works on my car damaged something during an installation.... they owned it and paid for it.... that should tell you something about people who are truly responsible......

Again... best advice.... don't loan out your RV.... I don't even loan out my cars....

The only people who drive our cars is my wife and I..

[jaak1993]

There are two parts to the message; there is what is to be said, and there is how to say it.

The what to say is what you have chosen regarding to loan or not.

How you say it is equally important. You want to be respectful and honest. Generally, I've found that expressing whatever feelings I have that lead to the decision. For instance: I would love for you to take my van on your trip, however it is a very complicated vehicle and I'm worried it will overwhelm you. I will worry the whole time you are gone so I'm not going to let you have it. Say this only if it is true.

There are lots of perspectives you could have, positive and negative, just tell whatever combination shares your perspective.

[LesM]

Many thanks to you all for your guidance, advice, thoughts and information. You gave me sufficient logical and rational input to overcome my inherent reluctance to turn down my friend's request (even though I knew in my head that I must say No). I was able to do it respecting her particular longing to experience the freedom of a B and with sufficient reasons that she was readily able to understand why I had to say "No". If I'm asked by others in future, I won't be torn between friendship and logic in politely explaining why I cannot do so.
Thanks, again.

[Porsche911]

Just politely say no, sorry I do not lend out my vehicles, it just becomes complicated and that's that end of story.

[fratermus]

Originally Posted by Johnny R

Nobody can say 'sorry, no' for you, love.

I will. If OP wants to DM me the contact info I will call. I am OP's "advisor" and I have advised him/her to say No.

[Nic7320]

The easy answer is "No, my insurance won't cover that."

They have to be named on the insurance policy, and when you loan it out, it's still you and your judgement they are insuring. Since she's not you, and doesn't have the same RV skills as you, then your insurance company -- and you -- are both taking a serious risk.

But let's look at another scenario; Let's say she gets her own insurance, and can demonstrate driving skills with a heavy vehicle, then you don't have to let her use all the propane appliances. She can survive with an ice chest. And if she doesn't know how to dump the tanks properly and recharge the blackwater chemicals, then you would do the dump.

But I'd have a bill of sale prepared with sufficient money put in place if she racks it up. Can she buy the vehicle if it comes back damaged?

The bottom line here is, you're not a commercial rental company, and you're not an insurance underwriter, so don't put yourself in a position where you have to take on those roles.

Admittedly, with friends, it's always tricky.

[RTJohn]

I once asked my neighbor to borrow a tool. His answer was a polite "I don't loan out my tools." Years later, we're still neighbors, and good friends, and we help each other, but I still never use his tools. I won't loan out our 1995 Chevy Roadtrek 210 to anybody either, even to that neighbor who lusts after it each time he pulls his pop-up out of the driveway. Way better that way.

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

Originally Posted by Nic7320

The easy answer is "No, my insurance won't cover that."

They have to be named on the insurance policy, and when you loan it out, it's still you and your judgement they are insuring. Since she's not you, and doesn't have the same RV skills as you, then your insurance company -- and you -- are both taking a serious risk.

But let's look at another scenario; Let's say she gets her own insurance, and can demonstrate driving skills with a heavy vehicle, then you don't have to let her use all the propane appliances. She can survive with an ice chest. And if she doesn't know how to dump the tanks properly and recharge the blackwater chemicals, then you would do the dump.

But I'd have a bill of sale prepared with sufficient money put in place if she racks it up. Can she buy the vehicle if it comes back damaged?

The bottom line here is, you're not a commercial rental company, and you're not an insurance underwriter, so don't put yourself in a position where you have to take on those roles.

Admittedly, with friends, it's always tricky.

LOOK... there are plenty of folks out there renting Class B's for "big bucks"... what do I mean... here's an example... $3,390 for 7 days..

Standard Rates | Rent My Roadtrek

I looked at this BEFORE I purchased my 2012 RS Adventurous.. I thought.. would I like it enough to own it... YES, I love it... and took the chance that I would NOT have buyers remorse... I had seriously thought of renting one, but, at this price, it's like losing $3,500 just to try it for a week.... that's a lot of money...

AND.. later thought... hey, I could rent my rig when I'm not using it to help pay for the cost of purchasing it.. Looked at this scenario and discovered that UNLESS you have commercial insurance and that costs $1,000 per month.... you're taking a HUGE risk... damage could wind your rig in the shop for weeks or months.

I don't know... maybe these folks who are renting out these things are really lucky and making money?? And, people who rent cars (or vans) drive like they're in a "Fast and Furious" movie.. no thanks.

The more I thought about all of the possible risks... decided to skip it.

Again, don't rely on someone's policy, don't ask for an additional rider or endorsement on yours... you NEED commercial insurance and a STRONG constitution if you decide to rent your vehicle out.

With that... good luck.