Lithium & 2nd Alternators Verses Onan Generators - Mike Mas

[Bud]

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

He is quite famous in the RC Helicopter world...

Forgot to ask, did you mean famous or infamous?

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by Bud

Forgot to ask, did you mean famous or infamous?

Famous not infamous that I know of

[jharrell]

Originally Posted by Davydd

You’re feeding the troll who is on this forum for just self-serving reasons and spreading totally inaccurate information. You notice how he ignores everything you say unless there is something he thinks he can refute, yet his refutations are totally inaccurate.

The problem is he is spreading misinformation on at least 3 forums and polluting the otherwise good sources of information, this is a real problem.

I am starting to think someone is paying him for this misinformation campaign, perhaps some kickback from a vendor like Onan.

[booster]

Originally Posted by jharrell

The problem is he is spreading misinformation on at least 3 forums and polluting the otherwise good sources of information, this is a real problem.

I am starting to think someone is paying him for this misinformation campaign, perhaps some kickback from a vendor like Onan.

I mentioned earlier that it should be disclosed if he has any affiliations like ambassador or get spiffs for mentioning certain products, and he completely ignored that comment and went back to repeating his canned answers about other things.

[jharrell]

I just received a response from Advanced RV which contradicts yet again the claim that lithium charging or auto start is disallowed:

Me:

I was recently told that Mercedes no longer allows lithium charging from the engine or auto-start for upfitters, I was wondering how accurate this is and if it will effect charging system of your Rv's? Thanks

Advanced RV Reply 5/13/2019 5:50 pm:

We are a Mercedes Master Upfitter. We have not gotten this message from Mercedes. Our battery system will remain the same.

[Davydd]

ARV uses second alternators to charge house lithium batteries and not the coach electrical system. Considering MB sells options for second alternator brackets and high idle you would think they would have no problems with that. The larger Delco alternator the install is fully protected. I believe that is not the case with Promasters and probably couldn’t be used. They use Nations and some installations I’ve seen are adequately protected.

[jharrell]

You can see ARV's large alternator setup and mounting in this video, very robust:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XANYxoEF_HY

Again IdleUp was trying to claim that Lithiums cannot be charged from the engine regardless of second alternator or current limiting setup. According to him if a vendor does they risk losing upfitter status and possibly can no longer resell sprinter chassis.

By all other accounts including a direct answer from a Mercedes master upfitter, this is FALSE.

He also claims that a sprinter high idling consumes conservatively, not counting regen, 2 GPH to charge at under 2500w from an alternator. This is the same amount of fuel to push the sprinter down the road at 45+ mph, a completely outrageous claim.

Along with many other unverifiable claims there seem to be an obvious misnformation campaign to promote a propane system over an alternator system. There are upsides and downside to both that everyone should be aware of, but it is not clear cut and the technology has come a long way in the last few years.

We need accurate information, not hyperbole, or even worse outright lies.

[DUTCH in Atlanta]

Originally Posted by IdleUp

Mercedes no longer allows Up fitters from using the engine in any manner for lithium charging, in fact they don't want up fitters to pull no more than 40 amps from the stock alternator.

Mike

Really?!??

My Coachmen Li3 Galleria was built by Coachmen in January 2019 on a 2018 Sprinter chassis. It has the second high output alternator on the engine as well as the high idle switches to enable the engine to idle faster to charge the Lithium battery.

Attached is a shot of the belt wrap for the added alternator.

[Bud]

I would guess that IdleUp had no choice but to refer these dumbass B manufacturers to the MB Idle and High Idle Police.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by Bud

I would guess that IdleUp had no choice but to refer these dumbass B manufacturers to the MB Idle and High Idle Police.

This may be a good place to repeat that, as far as I have ever seen, no one has EVER produced ANY MB published document that forbids long idling in a Sprinter. They DO say that you must drive at highway speed periodically to clear the DPF, but that is it.

This is not to say that I believe long idling is a good idea (I don't). But, contrary to Internet myth, MB does not proscribe diesel idling.

[markopolo]

The 2019 Sprinter operators manual only offers warnings and advice re: short-distance driving and idling for long periods - no prohibition.

Two copy & pastes from the manual:

Information about short-distance trips

If the vehicle is predominantly used for short-distance driving, fuel may accumulate in the engine oil and cause engine damage.

- mainly short-distance driving
- when the engine is often left idling for long periods

In these or similar operating conditions, have the interior air filter, engine air cleaner, engine oil and oil filter etc. changed more frequently.

[Winetime1]

I bought a 2019 coachman LI3. Previously I had a 40 newmar dutchstar diesel. The quiet simplicity of this system is fantastic. When fast idle is used, which can be adjusted on the dash, it is quiet and generates like crazy. I guess if boondocking in Florida in the summer during the day, all unlikely scenarios, you would charge every 4-5 hours. But what it normally is used for is being able to leave the a/c on when hiking at a state park, or exploring a new town on foot. No messing with the Jenny, one switch does it and when you drive around it puts you at 100% in no time. Go to someone’s house for dinner, leave it on. I am a big believer in it. I think everyone worries about an engine that will outlive us all. I’m just saying.....

[Bud]

Hi Winetime1,

Your Li3 is very nice. I am considering 1/2 of that.

I was just in a Crossfit with the new Proair quiet dc powered ac running on batteries, agm battery or batteries, maybe one 8D. With 2 of them it would be about 1/2 600 amps or 300. It did not have the second alternator.

Roadtrek did offer ac with agm, but stopped. Is anyone besides Coachmen offering it with agm other than custom?

[avanti]

Does anybody have a link to details on the new ProAir 12VDC unit? I can't find it on their website. Perhaps they aren't selling them retail yet?

Also, anybody know how it compares with the unit ARV is selling when it comes to quiet operation? Noise is my #1 issue and the ARV item is well-reputed. But, native 12VDC would be nice, too.

[RossWilliams]

" I guess if boondocking in Florida in the summer during the day ... But what it normally is used for is being able to leave the a/c on when hiking at a state park, or exploring a new town on foot."

I think that pretty much defines it. If you want 24 hour AC while parked, you need either shore power or a separate generator. If you want to keep your unit cool for brief periods, then an under-hood generator with a robust set of batteries will do the job. Volt-start can extend how long you can go, but it isn't going to replace the need for a propane generator assuming you have need for one to begin with.

[Jostalli]

Originally Posted by avanti

Does anybody have a link to details on the new ProAir 12VDC unit? I can't find it on their website. Perhaps they aren't selling them retail yet?

Also, anybody know how it compares with the unit ARV is selling when it comes to quiet operation? Noise is my #1 issue and the ARV item is well-reputed. But, native 12VDC would be nice, too.

Which model from ProAir are you referring to? We are a ProAir dealer but prefer other DC A/C’s for our builds.

[DUTCH in Atlanta]

Originally Posted by avanti

Does anybody have a link to details on the new ProAir 12VDC unit? I can't find it on their website. Perhaps they aren't selling them retail yet?

This is the one installed by CoachmenRV in the Galleria and Beyond. I have it in my Galleria; and compared to the Dometic 13,500 BTU unit, it is VERY quiet.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by Jostalli

Which model from ProAir are you referring to? We are a ProAir dealer but prefer other DC A/C’s for our builds.

I am open to all suggestions. My three primary goals are (1) quiet; (2) quiet; and (3) quiet. All else being equal, I would prefer DC for efficiency considerations, but it is clear the the advantages are small.

I have been seriously considering a split unit with underbody mount. I know ProAir's line in this area very well. However, doing this reliably would be a lot of work. The ARV 120VAC rooftop unit has received such good reviews, I am now considering that. It would certainly be easier. But the new ProAIr DC unit seems to be on the rise. I am looking for actual data that compares these two alternatives. As I said, I am also always open to new suggestions.

[RossWilliams]

Does anyone know if there is a quiet generator. It seems that noise is one of the biggest disadvantages of a generator over batteries.

[DUTCH in Atlanta]

Originally Posted by RossWilliams

Does anyone know if there is a quiet generator. It seems that noise is one of the biggest disadvantages of a generator over batteries.

My Honda 2000 is very quiet, especially in the Eco Mode; but it’s still a generator.