Lithium/Alternator/Inverter Package from Xantrex

[avanti]

Originally Posted by cruising7388

If located in the interior of a vehicle, I believe AGMs require venting.

Not really. It is "recommended", but mostly overkill. Even our old Airstream Interstate didn't bother (not that that is saying much).

[Olbie]

The bigger reason that we went with Lithium batteries is that we could get substantially more power with less size and weight. With 600 amps of lithium we can run everything in the RV including the air-conditioner for approximately 9 hours without even solar... and it will fit without consuming any space previously being used on our B+ van.

The total setup including 600 amp battery and 3000 watt inverter/charger weigh approx 190lbs. The battery is only 38"long, x 14" wide x 7.5" tall. To do 600 amps with AGM would take considerably more space and weight, and the AGM's would not have neither the amp hour drain capacity, (Lithium vs AGM), nor the lifespan of the lithium. The lithium also charges much faster than the AGM. The entire package fits nicely in unused space under the couch.

I realize because of the cost Lithium is not for everyone, but we are thrilled with what it will provide us.

[booster]

How big is your AC? 9 hours is a long time unless the compressor is cycling, which may or may not happen in a B in the sun, at least from our experience.

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by Olbie

The bigger reason that we went with Lithium batteries is that we could get substantially more power with less size and weight. With 600 amps of lithium we can run everything in the RV including the air-conditioner for approximately 9 hours without even solar... and it will fit without consuming any space previously being used on our B+ van.

The total setup including 600 amp battery and 3000 watt inverter/charger weigh approx 190lbs. The battery is only 38"long, x 14" wide x 7.5" tall. To do 600 amps with AGM would take considerably more space and weight, and the AGM's would not have neither the amp hour drain capacity, (Lithium vs AGM), nor the lifespan of the lithium. The lithium also charges much faster than the AGM. The entire package fits nicely in unused space under the couch.

I realize because of the cost Lithium is not for everyone, but we are thrilled with what it will provide us.

I think that for you the Lithium Batteries are very important judging on the number of your posts, 5 posts and all are about Lithionics, I am sure Lithionics will appreciate that. We all can justify different prices depending on our view of delivered value and make a decision.

Just for your information, battery capacity unit, either AGM or Lithium is AmpHours in short Ah. A – Amps is a unit of electric current, meaningless in relationship to battery capacity. A very common mistake. The most appropriate measure is kWhour – kWh but industry is commonly using kW which is wrong, 1kWh means you can power 1kW device for 1 hour from a battery.

[booster]

Originally Posted by GeorgeRa

Just for your information, battery capacity unit, either AGM or Lithium is AmpHours in short Ah. A – Amps is a unit of electric current, meaningless in relationship to battery capacity. A very common mistake. The most appropriate measure is kWhour – kWh but industry is commonly using kW which is wrong, 1kWh means you can power 1kW device for 1 hour from a battery.

As BBQ has mentioned, that has been my "pet peeve" on this site for a long time. It is like using gallons instead of using gallons per minute for water flow.

Kw-hours would be great as that includes the voltage change during discharge in calculating the capacity.

[Olbie]

I just thought I would share a fun project that we'd taken on with some fun technology.

Its pretty clear this isn't the place for it.

[Phoebe3]

Originally Posted by Olbie

I just thought I would share a fun project that we'd taken on with some fun technology.

Its pretty clear this isn't the place for it.

Don't take it to heart, Olbie. I once posted about some window shades that I made from Reflectix wrapped in fabric. It ended up being about the pros and cons of Reflectix as an insulation material with the general consensus that I should have chosen thinsulate.

The folks on this forum are really smart and really interested in RV systems and modifications. That means they REALLY get into discussing every aspect and it doesn't take long before it has nothing to do with your project, but is, rather, a conversation among internet friends. The bad news is that if you are looking for atta-boys, you probably won't get them. The good news is that when you have a really thorny problem, you can count on the regulars here to give it very serious thought and they will spend whatever time it takes to help you.

If anything I said seemed harsh or insensitive, I apologize. And I hope you will continue to hang out and join the conversations.

[booster]

Originally Posted by Olbie

I just thought I would share a fun project that we'd taken on with some fun technology.

Its pretty clear this isn't the place for it.

I certainly wouldn't say this is the wrong place for the project. I do think you have to realize that there have been literally dozens of lithium battery discussions here, many that left the same questions unanswered. Lots of us want to know how the newer systems are designed, and hope that the questions start to get answered. We have also seen lots and lots of claims for systems and run times that just don't look feasible in the real world, with most getting proven not to. The 9 hours AC on a 600 amp hour battery bank, which will have less than that usable (one of the questions that we always want to know because lithium system builders leave different amounts of "cushion" at the top and bottom of the state of charge) is one of them. I would expect you would get 80-90% usable on a well designed system like Lithionics. Those are the types of things that make up probe more to find out how the claims were determined, eg did they come from the manufacturer or the user?

The other part of it is that just about any new poster who comes on any board and is giving extremely glowing reviews to a manufacturers product is immediately going to be generating skepticism as to if they are a shill for the manufacturer. The shills have ruined it for real posters for certain, but that is the way it is. They are all over. I have even been offered discounts on products a couple of times if I will go on various sites and post favorably about them and the seller. Would never do it, though.

[Olbie]

No problem guys. I am not plugging a product or company, just sharing a project. As I have read through the beginning of this post I have seen a real gravitation to 100 year old lead acid technology and it looks like that works for not all but possibly most folks here and thats great.

Some of us though are looking for something new that will actually provide real ability to run a large inverter for a long period of time.

I realise that this is my ambition, not an ambition of many of the folks here and that is ok. I also understand that if the folks here put down new technology and focus on the old thats exactly where this forum will stay.

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by Olbie

The total setup including 600 amp battery and 3000 watt inverter/charger weigh approx 190lbs. The battery is only 38"long, x 14" wide x 7.5" tall.

Interesting. The 600ah Lithionics unit in the Galleria measures 24L x 12W x 11H

Will the BMS be integrated into the battery case or is it a separate module?

Will Lithionics dimension their batteries to satisfy unique space limitations?

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by booster

How big is your AC? 9 hours is a long time unless the compressor is cycling, which may or may not happen in a B in the sun, at least from our experience.

I would think that, among other things, the coach exterior color range from white thru silver to black would affect compressor duty cycle with the coach in the sun.

[booster]

Originally Posted by cruising7388

I would think that, among other things, the coach exterior color range from white thru silver to black would affect compressor duty cycle with the coach in the sun.

It sure does. We painted the roof of our sand colored Roadtrek 190 bright silver with metallic candy and it certainly cooled down the interior in the sun.

[GeorgeRa]

A well populated roof with solar cells is one of the best way to block IR penetrating the roof.

[BBQ]

Originally Posted by cruising7388

Interesting. The 600ah Lithionics unit in the Galleria measures 24L x 12W x 11H

Will the BMS be integrated into the battery case or is it a separate module?

Will Lithionics dimension their batteries to satisfy unique space limitations?

Have you watched the video in post #105?

The big guy has explained everything.

[InterBlog]

Originally Posted by Olbie

... The battery is only 38"long, x 14" wide x 7.5" tall. ...The entire package fits nicely in unused space under the couch.
....

I believe you said that you are going to install the system yourself. I wouldn't mind seeing a pic of what it looks like. Lithium retrofits are often space-inefficient, at least the ones I've seen to date, because of the need to minimize labor costs. If not labor costs on the actual installation, then labor costs on the configuration of the components to be installed. So I'm curious as to what your vendor has devised in the context of "entire package".

My husband and I DIY'd our own lithium system and took the time to "gene-splice" almost everything into existing void spaces, so that we would not be sacrificing areas that we need for storage. Part of our job looks like this:

[booster]

Originally Posted by InterBlog

I believe you said that you are going to install the system yourself. I wouldn't mind seeing a pic of what it looks like. Lithium retrofits are often space-inefficient, at least the ones I've seen to date, because of the need to minimize labor costs. If not labor costs on the actual installation, then labor costs on the configuration of the components to be installed. So I'm curious as to what your vendor has devised in the context of "entire package".

My husband and I DIY'd our own lithium system and took the time to "gene-splice" almost everything into existing void spaces, so that we would not be sacrificing areas that we need for storage. Part of our job looks like this:

I would totally agree on this, and also expand it to many/most of the other larger systems in AGM or even wet cells. The OEMs appear to be only worried about how easy it is to put together and big spaces are easy, so that is where the stuff goes. We all have seen the "normal" multiple AGM/inverter upgrades that get in vans like Roadtreks where they plop 2-4 batteries and a big inverter/charger in the rear storage area, essentially using up most of it. It is not easy to get all the parts tucked away and not wasting space, as we know because we did it, but worth it in the long run.

[Olbie]

If you go on the Lithionics site you will see that they offer their batteries in all shapes and sizes. I chose the the "Flat pack" design as it fit in the space that I had under the couch the best.

I ordered the BMS external to the battery to make the battery smaller and it also affords potentially adding more battery in the future with less cost.

The battery that we ordered was the first of this size being produced by them and its being sealed in an aluminium case for added protection.

[Olbie]

I also decided to do the installation and spec of cables myself because how it was installed and the space it consumed is more important to me than it was to the professional installers that I talked to.

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by Olbie

.........................its being sealed in an aluminium case for added protection.

Protection of battery or RV or you?

[Olbie]

This brand, (I am hesitant to mention the brand as some here felt I was plugging the product), puts their batteries in aluminium case as a standard. They are a big supplier of military, Disney parks, and golf carts and have a track record for being safe. If there were a fault with the battery the external BMS would shut the battery down.

I happened to like the fact that it was in a solid case as I wouldn't have to think about problems associated with the mechanical parts on my couch as the bed is extended and retracted.