Left red key on over 12 hours engine & generator offwoke to the 60 second chirp alert

[THEBRAIN]

Originally Posted by booster

Don't overthink it all, just read the install instructions for the different listed models I gave above. The are on the manufacturers website.



Isolators are full of diodes to separate the batteries. When charging from the alternator you lose appox .7v of charging voltage which is wasted power but even worse is the lower voltage doesn't charge you batteries as well.


Some isolators like you have need the ignition triggers, separators do not and none that I gave you are simple two cable connections to make them work as they don't need any other source of power except from the two batteries. If you add a remote switch there is wiring for that to run of course.


Separators like those listed don't lose voltage when connecting the batteries so charge better.



The 7610 that SteveJ has is one I also listed and have used. It is automatic and like most separators allow charging both ways so you can charge your starting battery while charging you coach on shore power. They are under $100 on Amazon so same cost as you isolator, but a much better choice in my opinion. The 7622 is a wonderful separator with the separate switch but more expensive. It is very versatile and wastes a bit less energy when in operation.


A plain power relay like you listed earlier has to have a switch added and uses a lot of power when connected.

sounds like the 7610 is a favorite however I'm concerned about the 200Watt solar sys. I plan like will the 7610 over charge the start batt.or house batt as I read in the above link? or do some solar charge controllers prevent overcharge? https://www.amazon.com/ExpertPower-2...MSM&th=1thanks

[booster]

Originally Posted by THEBRAIN

sounds like the 7610 is a favorite however I'm concerned about the 200Watt solar sys. I plan like will the 7610 over charge the start batt.or house batt as I read in the above link? or do some solar charge controllers prevent overcharge? https://www.amazon.com/ExpertPower-2...MSM&th=1thanks

The 7610 will connect the batteries and charge both starting and coach batteries. Depending on how big your coach batteries are 200 watts will probably not overcharge the starting battery much if you are recovering from fairly deep discharge on the coach as the 200 watts won't be able to hold high enough voltage over much of the day. The problems with solar overcharging are mainly when you have full batteries when the sun comes up, like when you are on shore power or in outside, non use, storage. If the solar controller does a full charge cycle in those circumstances, every day for weeks on end, it is not good for any of the batteries. The now not used much Morningstar controllers were kind of famous for that, we had one when we first got solar. If the controller senses voltage before deciding whether to full charge or float, it is not and issue.


There are controllers now that will split the charge to trickle the starting battery and full charge the coach, so that would be a good idea especially if you store outside for longer periods of time as long as it goes to float most days for the coach. Others on here have used IIRC so there may be some information on the forum to fill in the blanks.


With the 7610 you can also add a switch to put 12v on the "ignition interrupt" terminal with a remote on/off switch. This will disconnect the batteries so you would be able to charge the coach battery only. In this case with your worry of overcharging, it is what I would do. It won't add much cost but pulling the wiring into the cab can be a bit of a pain.


The 7622 comes with a switch that does that for you and it also allows you to connect the batteries while not charging so you could do things like jump starting the engine if the starting battery is dead, provided the wiring is big enough to carry that much current.

[SteveJ]

Originally Posted by booster

With the 7610 you can also add a switch to put 12v on the "ignition interrupt" terminal with a remote on/off switch. This will disconnect the batteries so you would be able to charge the coach battery only. In this case with your worry of overcharging, it is what I would do. It won't add much cost but pulling the wiring into the cab can be a bit of a pain.

I haven't seen the need to do it but instead of wiring a switch to the starter interrupt wire and having to find a power source for it, I think maybe better results would be obtained by having a switch interrupt the ground wire to the 7610, no current draw that way. I would think if using the starter interrupt wire to disconnect one would also need some sort of relay to keep from back feeding the starter solenoid.

Thoughts?

[SteveJ]

SteveJ are using this https://www.amazon.com/Blue-Sea-Syst...DKIKX0DER&th=1

how did you connect the switched 12VDC? thanks

Yes, that is the one, though the price just went up again.

Like Booster said, there is a lot of info on specs and installation on the Blue Sea website.

[booster]

Originally Posted by SteveJ

I haven't seen the need to do it but instead of wiring a switch to the starter interrupt wire and having to find a power source for it, I think maybe better results would be obtained by having a switch interrupt the ground wire to the 7610, no current draw that way. I would think if using the starter interrupt wire to disconnect one would also need some sort of relay to keep from back feeding the starter solenoid.

Thoughts?

Interrupting the ground would probably work fine, although I always prefer to do things like this without unpowering the electronic stuff completely if possible, and the ignition interrupt is there to do it.


The ease of wiring is pretty much the same for both. If you use the ground wire to do it you would need a single wire to the inside and would have to find a good ground in the too much ungrounded plastic area of the dash. If you use 12v hot you run the same wire and find a 12v source.


The better and easier way for both would be to run a two wire cable and just connect it to 12v at the 7610 and the return to ignition interrupt, or cut the ground wire and put the wires from the switch on the two cut ends. Very close to same effort and probably less than either single wire method.


I have ours disconnected a lot of the time (it is strictly manual though). The only time it is on is if we need alternator charging and then it is only on as long as it takes to fill the 440ah coach batteries until they are accepting about 5-8 amps or so when the solar will be able to top them off. If it is very nice and sunny I might turn it off at 10 amps or so. I have an ammeter on the dash so I can see the actual amps to the coach batteries to determine what to do.

[THEBRAIN]

Originally Posted by booster

Interrupting the ground would probably work fine, although I always prefer to do things like this without unpowering the electronic stuff completely if possible, and the ignition interrupt is there to do it.


The ease of wiring is pretty much the same for both. If you use the ground wire to do it you would need a single wire to the inside and would have to find a good ground in the too much ungrounded plastic area of the dash. If you use 12v hot you run the same wire and find a 12v source.


The better and easier way for both would be to run a two wire cable and just connect it to 12v at the 7610 and the return to ignition interrupt, or cut the ground wire and put the wires from the switch on the two cut ends. Very close to same effort and probably less than either single wire method.


I have ours disconnected a lot of the time (it is strictly manual though). The only time it is on is if we need alternator charging and then it is only on as long as it takes to fill the 440ah coach batteries until they are accepting about 5-8 amps or so when the solar will be able to top them off. If it is very nice and sunny I might turn it off at 10 amps or so. I have an ammeter on the dash so I can see the actual amps to the coach batteries to determine what to do.

lots of good useable infor here.thanks Booster

do you have any images of how you setup your manuel isolator,amp meter an solar controller.routing wires ect. or threads on this stuff youve published here.

[booster]

Originally Posted by THEBRAIN

lots of good useable infor here.thanks Booster

do you have any images of how you setup your manuel isolator,amp meter an solar controller.routing wires ect. or threads on this stuff youve published here.

I have a lot of threads on our charging stuff, but not much of it covers the actual wiring running as it is all pretty normal and to the instruction sheets. Nothing to really show on the running of wires anyway because every type of van is different so wouldn't apply. There are pix in many of the threads.




You probably don't want to do the ammeter we have in the cockpit as it a very expensive way to go. I did it only because of space consideration for the two inductive 300 amp pickup sensors and the meter size itself. You would be better off to just get a battery monitor that includes a shunt for the pickup at the battery. The low cost ones would probably 1/10th of what we have in ours.

[THEBRAIN]

Originally Posted by booster

I have a lot of threads on our charging stuff, but not much of it covers the actual wiring running as it is all pretty normal and to the instruction sheets. Nothing to really show on the running of wires anyway because every type of van is different so wouldn't apply. There are pix in many of the threads.




You probably don't want to do the ammeter we have in the cockpit as it a very expensive way to go. I did it only because of space consideration for the two inductive 300 amp pickup sensors and the meter size itself. You would be better off to just get a battery monitor that includes a shunt for the pickup at the battery. The low cost ones would probably 1/10th of what we have in ours.

how do I look at your threads all I see is individual posts? thanks

[THEBRAIN]

I’m leaning to this imitation 7610 isolator (plan to leave the yellow wire unconnected) this isolator appears to be rebadged a bunch an dual guage. What do you think like will the isolator melt inside engine area?

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...10EYU8EQ&psc=1


https://www.amazon.com/MICTUNING-Dig...9-5b5edfc7a140

[SteveJ]

Originally Posted by THEBRAIN

I’m leaning to this imitation 7610 isolator (plan to leave the yellow wire unconnected) this isolator appears to be rebadged a bunch an dual guage. What do you think like will the isolator melt inside engine area?

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...10EYU8EQ&psc=1


https://www.amazon.com/MICTUNING-Dig...9-5b5edfc7a140

The yellow wire should be utilized to disconnect when the starter is engaged, it looks like you would probably need a relay to do this. The real 7610 it is simply a matter of connecting a wire to the starter relay trigger or the main starter able. If you do not have a starter disconnect system in place there will likely be heavy current surges through the charging relay.

The imitation also only has a 5 second time delay. This could be an issue when the voltages are on the bubble causing the relays to rapidly engage/disengage.

There are also no specs about current draw. I did find this in the q/a section:

Q: Does the smart isolator draw any residual power when in stand by mode. Switch off and no accessories on?
A: the sensors on board would have to be on constantly in order to sense voltage and take action to open or close the relay. So yes, it would have to pull power for that function. However, the amps drawn would be no less than 1 amp, and max 2 amps over a period of time, much like the same way a modern vehicle already has many systems in stand by drawing in the background (remote locks, alarm, etc...)

If that is true it is a significant draw when boondocking, 24 to 48 amp hours per day.

A lot of times it's just best to cry once at the purchase point and get the good stuff instead of crap from questionable sources.



The dual gauge is just a dual volt meter. A true shunt based monitor is highly desirable.

[THEBRAIN]

Originally Posted by SteveJ

The yellow wire should be utilized to disconnect when the starter is engaged, it looks like you would probably need a relay to do this. The real 7610 it is simply a matter of connecting a wire to the starter relay trigger or the main starter able. If you do not have a starter disconnect system in place there will likely be heavy current surges through the charging relay.

The imitation also only has a 5 second time delay. This could be an issue when the voltages are on the bubble causing the relays to rapidly engage/disengage.

There are also no specs about current draw. I did find this in the q/a section:

Q: Does the smart isolator draw any residual power when in stand by mode. Switch off and no accessories on?
A: the sensors on board would have to be on constantly in order to sense voltage and take action to open or close the relay. So yes, it would have to pull power for that function. However, the amps drawn would be no less than 1 amp, and max 2 amps over a period of time, much like the same way a modern vehicle already has many systems in stand by drawing in the background (remote locks, alarm, etc...)

If that is true it is a significant draw when boondocking, 24 to 48 amp hours per day.

A lot of times it's just best to cry once at the purchase point and get the good stuff instead of crap from questionable sources.



The dual gauge is just a dual volt meter. A true shunt based monitor is highly desirable.

gee thanks Steve you just ruined both of my parades cheap isolator an cheap guage . which is a good thing.

when you say "The real 7610 it is simply a matter of connecting a wire to the starter relay trigger or the main starter able. " is all this switched 12V DC?

edit: yes I've been looking into the shunt type guage hows this look.
this is the old one that has the button on right which changes windows in configuring. the newer one is $17.50

both are rebadged upth times so it must be halfway decent to copy over and over.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B098B4BHN5...NsaWNrPXRydWU=

I'll have to calculate amp hours available myself.

this one calculates AHs itself however it constantly blinks which mite be to iratating.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B098B4BHN5...NsaWNrPXRydWU=

thanks Steve did you consider just replacing the regular isolator your van came w/? I don't wanta be that Guy that pays thrice to get a desirabe device.

[SteveJ]

when you say "The real 7610 it is simply a matter of connecting a wire to the starter relay trigger or the main starter able. " is all this switched 12V DC?

There are two posts for the main cables, the chassis battery cable shares the same post as the alternator able. There are three smaller connections. One goes to ground, mandatory. This can be switched if for some reason you would want that. Another gets wired to the starter relay to break the battery connection to each other, mandatory. The third goes to an optional LED indiator to show that the batteries are connected, optional.

both are rebadged upth times so it must be halfway decent to copy over and over.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B098B4BHN5...NsaWNrPXRydWU=

You will need two of these as they only measure in one direction and they cause a lot of brain hurt in use. They also have to be reset when the battery is plumb full, quite regularly. A true pain in the ___. I used that setup for a while then in our new install went with this:
https://smile.amazon.com/QWORK-Batte...0824X5MKM&th=1

A lot less brain hurt(as in virtually none) to use. Ours still works well after two years. Currently about $45. It will blink when charging, steady light on discharge, mount accordingly. It makes a great night light.

[booster]

Originally Posted by SteveJ

There are two posts for the main cables, the chassis battery cable shares the same post as the alternator able. There are three smaller connections. One goes to ground, mandatory. This can be switched if for some reason you would want that. Another gets wired to the starter relay to break the battery connection to each other, mandatory. The third goes to an optional LED indiator to show that the batteries are connected, optional.



You will need two of these as they only measure in one direction and they cause a lot of brain hurt in use. They also have to be reset when the battery is plumb full, quite regularly. A true pain in the ___. I used that setup for a while then in our new install went with this:
https://smile.amazon.com/QWORK-Batte...0824X5MKM&th=1

A lot less brain hurt(as in virtually none) to use. Ours still works well after two years. Currently about $45. It will blink when charging, steady light on discharge, mount accordingly. It makes a great night light.

Re the 7610, the ground is needed but in general for RVs the ignition/start interrupt isn't. It is only there to keep funny spikes from harming electronics, but I have never heard that happen in our vans or other RVs.


I used the start interrupt as a control to turn the 7610 off on signal from charger when I was using a 3 output charger and shifting the coach load when on charge from where it was when not on charge.

[SteveJ]

Originally Posted by booster

Re the 7610, the ground is needed but in general for RVs the ignition/start interrupt isn't. It is only there to keep funny spikes from harming electronics, but I have never heard that happen in our vans or other RVs.


I used the start interrupt as a control to turn the 7610 off on signal from charger when I was using a 3 output charger and shifting the coach load when on charge from where it was when not on charge.

I guess my may concern is the sudden inrush of current to the starter with an unknown amount coming from the house batteries through the 7610. The ratings from BlueSea are not all that robust as for dealing with the draw of the starter. Granted, it's usually not for a long time period but I look at it as possibly abusing the connections in the 7610.

It's possible that the starter interrupt is designed more for concerns in a marine environment as that seems to be BlueSea's focus. That's not to say that there couldn't be issues depending on the electronics of a motor vehicle, I think. I figure as long it's there, and they designed and engineered it to function how it does, who am I to not utilize it.

[booster]

Originally Posted by SteveJ

I guess my may concern is the sudden inrush of current to the starter with an unknown amount coming from the house batteries through the 7610. The ratings from BlueSea are not all that robust as for dealing with the draw of the starter. Granted, it's usually not for a long time period but I look at it as possibly abusing the connections in the 7610.

It's possible that the starter interrupt is designed more for concerns in a marine environment as that seems to be BlueSea's focus. That's not to say that there couldn't be issues depending on the electronics of a motor vehicle, I think. I figure as long it's there, and they designed and engineered it to function how it does, who am I to not utilize it.

Why would the 7610 be closed as it will only close when on charge on one end or the other? It could only happen if the coach was on charge via shore power or solar. My opinion is if that can happen it is time for bigger wiring. I think that this is the reason, maybe that isolators are only one way charging. This can happen with any of the separator installations out there, but they all have appropriate auto resetting circuit breakers so no issue. If you have solar, you really don't want an all the time both way charging setup as it will connect from the solar and lose valuable charging to overcharging the starter battery. One of the reasons we are fully manual on the separator.

[SteveJ]

Originally Posted by booster

Why would the 7610 be closed as it will only close when on charge on one end or the other? It could only happen if the coach was on charge via shore power or solar. My opinion is if that can happen it is time for bigger wiring. I think that this is the reason, maybe that isolators are only one way charging. This can happen with any of the separator installations out there, but they all have appropriate auto resetting circuit breakers so no issue. If you have solar, you really don't want an all the time both way charging setup as it will connect from the solar and lose valuable charging to overcharging the starter battery. One of the reasons we are fully manual on the separator.

The 7610 will stay connected at over 12.75 volts. I've had scenarios with a voltage this high, mostly after having plugged in to shore power and there is a residually high voltage on the house batteries after unplugging to leave.

Good point on the wasted charge to the chassis battery, at least for short term stays. I may put a disconnect switch on the winter to do list.

[THEBRAIN]

I think I’ll have to go w/ this VSR it doesn’t have the yellow wire (unless SteveJ has another nogo argument which was a good thing on the previous choice) Only a ground and 2 batterys anyone could connect this.
From what I understand so far is, when alternater exceeds 13.3vdc both batterys are
being charged (provide red key is on) when the engine is turned off an alternator isn’t charging voltage will
drop when it drops below 12.8VDC the start batt. Is disconnected thus protected from
any further drain.
I assume a good quick test would be mearsure house batt. Then run a appliance and see if the house drains, remember previously the start drain and house was protected.

So this means if I expect to charge both batterys w/ shore power will shore power be at or over the 13.3VDC? same ? for generator?
Same ? for solar? Or can decent solar controllers be dialed in on how much they charge?like I certainly don't want to accidently over charge. like the man on amazon 7610 review who overcharded his start w/ solar.


This isolator seams like a rebadged but has decent reviews.
Plus it’s cheap. Only $20. what do you Guys think
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...LJCY5BQIU&th=1

[booster]

Originally Posted by THEBRAIN

I assume a good quick test would be mearsure house batt. Then run a appliance and see if the house drains, remember previously the start drain and house was protected.

So this means if I expect to charge both batterys w/ shore power will shore power be at or over the 13.3VDC? same ? for generator?
Same ? for solar? Or can decent solar controllers be dialed in on how much they charge?like I certainly don't want to accidently over charge. like the man on amazon 7610 review who overcharded his start w/ solar.


This isolator seams like a rebadged but has decent reviews.
Plus it’s cheap. Only $20. what do you Guys think
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...LJCY5BQIU&th=1

It appears that you missed what was said multiple time in this discussion and others.


Isolator = With engine running charges coach and starting batteries. Engine off it isolates the batteries from each other.


Separator/automatic charge relay = Will charge both ways depending on if it sees high enough (charge level) voltage, usually 13-13.2v. If the voltage is lower than that the batteries are isolated so nothing is charging.


Overcharging is not caused by an automatic charge relay, it is caused by the charger(s) and the rest of the system. If the coach batteries need charging and starting battery is full, yes it will get overcharged with an automatic charge relay on shore power or solar. That is exactly why it has been mentioned multiple times that there is great benefit from having an automatic charge relay (so it charges both ways if needed) but also has a way to manually disconnect it to prevent the over charging. Many of us said we have such systems, and that is because they work well and are easy to use.


There are solar controllers and shore charges that you can set the charge and float voltages and they aren't cheap and they still can overcharge if the coach batteries need charging and starter doesn't.


As I said many times, get the OEM Chevy wiring diagram for the alternator wiring for your year van. The one I have is for 2007 so may not apply. Then take the system back to that configuration. Once you have it stock OEM Chevy wired, with no connection to the coach, install a 7610 or other automatic charge relay per the instructions that come with it and put in a shut off switch (easy) if you want one to prevent overcharging.


You are way overthinking this and trying find some use for a wire that probably isn't even needed, most likely, for a more modern an simpler system.

[SteveJ]

This isolator seams like a rebadged but has decent reviews.
Plus it’s cheap. Only $20. what do you Guys think
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...LJCY5BQIU&th=1

There is no mention of operating current that I could see. If it is close to 2 amps like the other one you found you will be wasting +/- 15-20 amp hours just to power the unit while it is engaged. The 7610 will use less than 2 amp hours for ten hours of engagement. That is significant on smaller systems.

Quote from Amazon review:
"Installed this Ampper 12v 140a Battery Isolator between our truck's battery and the DC to DC charger in our truck camper to prevent discharge of our truck's battery by the DC to DC charger when the alternator is off-line (engine is not running). Works as advertised. One word of caution for those who plan to run high current loads through this battery isolator. This Ampper "140a" battery isolator is only rated for 50-70a of "continuous" current as per the spec sheet that came with this battery isolator. The 140a rating is only a "peak" current rating. A bit misleading."

Seems a little light duty to me.

You know, for less than the price of one tank of gas you can upgrade to good kit that performs well. (Blue Sea 7610 or similar). Why would one screw around with Amazon crap when the good stuff is really quite reasonably priced?

[THEBRAIN]

Originally Posted by SteveJ

There are two posts for the main cables, the chassis battery cable shares the same post as the alternator able. There are three smaller connections. One goes to ground, mandatory. This can be switched if for some reason you would want that. Another gets wired to the starter relay to break the battery connection to each other, mandatory. The third goes to an optional LED indiator to show that the batteries are connected, optional.
[B[/B]


You will need two of these as they only measure in one direction and they cause a lot of brain hurt in use. They also have to be reset when the battery is plumb full, quite regularly. A true pain in the ___. I used that setup for a while then in our new install went with this:
https://smile.amazon.com/QWORK-Batte...0824X5MKM&th=1

A lot less brain hurt(as in virtually none) to use. Ours still works well after two years. Currently about $45. It will blink when charging, steady light on discharge, mount accordingly. It makes a great night light.

]SteveJ I can wire the batterys, ground & LED but how is this done " Another gets wired to the starter relay"?are you tapping into the wire harness under fuse block? seams kindof complicated.

yes the guage you link to was my 2nd choice then I found out about the iratating blinking. can you post image of where you have yours mounted?

edit I just read on yboob to turn the backlight off and on, by pressing the V and % buttons simultaneously and holding for a second or two


thanks