Jim Hammil leaving Roadtrek/Hymer?

[wincrasher]

Originally Posted by rockymtnb

Yeah, that's a good question!

I'm guessing not since SSI tallys are based on state title registration data. So they'd need to generate fake titles and get them registered by each state. Probably need some good mob connections to orchestrate that!

But RVIA data is based on wholesale production data. So it might have snuck into those reports?

Wincrasher you definitely win the victory lap for calling this one early! Hammill always seemed like a bit of a flim-flam man but this seems over the top.

For all we know, the folks at Hymer noticed the industry data and said "Hey, we aren't building that many units, what the hell?"

[rowiebowie]

As a retired Auditor, it takes collusion between several high-ranking company officials to pull off something this big. So it is not unusual the big three were involved.

However, it is scary when this happens because the biggest factor preventing these big frauds is someone squealing to authorities for one of the following reasons:

1) Ethics - someone reports it because they know it is wrong.

2) Greed - they want in and aren't included, so they turn the others in.

Unfortunately, it's probably reason 2) as often as it is reason 1).

.

[<<B-Guy>>]

Well, I wound up buying 2019 PW rather that RT mainly coz my "Mrs" much preferred the layout and decor.

I was a bit ticked off - mainly about missing out on the great RT 6y yr full transferable warrantee as PW's is nowhere near a match.

As well, I sort of liked RT's underhood generator concept instead of the Onan and also we live only an hour from the RT factory in case of need.

I had to appease SWMB and ho wih her preference of the PW in order to win her agreement to downsize from our 31 ft trailer because she wasn't as enthused about the downsizing as I was.


So today I am feeling a bit better about our choice!


But still - RT has a huge and loyal following, and no doubt puts out a pretty decent product, and so I think there is a good chance this mess may well work itself out - I hope so.

Brian.

[avanti]

IMO, the PW is an excellent choice. If you want an underhood generator (and you should), get one installed. Easy enough. RTs have glitz and good features. PWs have good bones. RV warranties just aren't all that valuable.

I have never owned either, so I am somewhat unbiased.

[susanrm]

I’m not sure what caused you to say that PW is so superior. I have looked at multiple models of both builds. They both have their strengths and weaknesses. I ended up with the RT for a few reasons, including handling and livability. The space was just much better laid out in the RT models I looked at.

[ContinuousImprovement]

I'd run an "I told you so lap" too, except the RT and hymer owners are still living in unsafe RVs. Hymer Germany has known about the alleged certification fraud since February 2018. Are Intertek and the RVIA at the edges or in the middle? There are more shoes dropping.
https://sites.google.com/view/suiet-...jfZIwQNCeSsBF0

[avanti]

Originally Posted by susanrm

I’m not sure what caused you to say that PW is so superior. I have looked at multiple models of both builds. They both have their strengths and weaknesses. I ended up with the RT for a few reasons, including handling and livability. The space was just much better laid out in the RT models I looked at.

You are right. "Far superior" was a poor choice of words. Different people value different things. Many people have great experiences with their RTs. I edited my post to say "excellent choice" instead.

[Bud]

https://rvdailyreport.com/industry/e...z2XlH-CGTuXWcA

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by Bud

https://rvdailyreport.com/industry/e...z2XlH-CGTuXWcA

It is interesting to read the comments following this story at the RV Daily site now that it has been out there for a day. If legit, the employee comments are very much in alignment with the story...

[mumkin]

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

It is interesting to read the comments following this story at the RV Daily site now that it has been out there for a day. If legit, the employee comments are very much in alignment with the story...

The employees certainly are not fans of JH... and fully expect not to have jobs... perhaps by Monday.

[GeorgeRa]

Roadtrek has a good history, unfortunately, some companies have difficulties following footsteps of their founders.

The Bigfoot Ind. went through hell in 2008 after demise of the original owner in the airplane accident a decade earlier. The Bigfoot company bit off way more than they could chew.

Hewlett Packard slowly went downhill since founders relished their control peaking with the dramatic Carly’s disaster.

https://www.roadtrek.com/wp-content/...model_year.pdf
Local News | E. Washington Plane Crash Kills Three From Canada | Seattle Times Newspaper

[booster]

Originally Posted by mumkin

The employees certainly are not fans of JH... and fully expect not to have jobs... perhaps by Monday.

I am not surprised that Hammill was not liked by the employees, as he exhibits nearly all the characteristics of a bad boss. He picks favorites based on how much the smooch him up (based on customer responses), he can't handle criticism at all, he attacks everyone with personal insults instead of facts or logic, he is willing to blatantly lie to try to sell his products, puts ego and money over safety, and I am sure is supremely arrogant when dealing with the production crew. Factories are full of bosses just like him, who have gotten ahead by aggression, lies, and nastyness, not talent or tact. I truly feel really bad for the production crews and midlevel supervisors at Hymer, as they are ones that going to come out the worst in all this, most likely.


This is truly a sad situation for most everyone except the upper management that caused it, if true, as they hopefully will get what they deserve.

[RossWilliams]

There is a report with no sources and a handful of responses from disgruntled employees. There is a saying "Those who are talking don't know and those that know aren't talking." The story may be accurate in some or all its particulars. The laid off employees clearly have reason to be disgruntled at this point. But until we have some hard facts, this is just chisme - back fence gossip and speculation.

I just bought a used Roadtrek, so I have an interest in the company stabilizing and getting back to business. But Roadtrek has been an innovator and quality RV producer for a long time. I think the whole industry will be poorer if they step back from that.

[mumkin]

The only employees laid off so far were brand new staff... hired in the last 3 months. They are not the ones commenting on this article...

There are obviously "sources" for the news - reported on a number of Canadian media sites. It is just that most are not named. And no one at Hymer or Roadtrek or Thor is saying anything to anyone to confirm or deny.

THAT is the most damning piece of evidence. If there was a false report in the local and industry media that your top executives have been fired for financial misconduct wouldn't you immediately call a news conference or put out an official comment?

Of course you would... so...

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by mumkin

.............

THAT is the most damning piece of evidence. If there was a false report in the local and industry media that your top executives have been fired for financial misconduct wouldn't you immediately call a news conference or put out an official comment?

Of course you would... so...

Wholeheartedly agree, this silence is loud.

[RossWilliams]

Silence is not loud but it leaves a void that some people feel the need to fill.

As for making media statements, you might react instantly, but I wouldn't. There are plenty of people that would want to know what had happened before confirming or denying anything. That is particularly true if you have an impending sale that leaves lines of authority somewhat blurred. If they have lawyers and media consultants involved, along with corporate leadership from two different companies, which they most likely do.We aren't going to hear any information until they are confident what they know is accurate, complete and what they say serves the future of the companies involved.

What we have is a report from an industry blogger reporting what he was told privately by some people associated with Hymer or Roadtrek who wanted to get their spin on the situation out in public ahead of any official announcement. By definition, those kinds of sources are not reliable.

Its clear Hymer/Roadtrek are buttoned down and we will just have to wait to get the real, or at least official, story.

[booster]

While I agree that there always are biases and spin on things depending on who is stating them, there are some things here that are not normal for acquisitions, layoffs, executive replacements, etc.


The CEO was escorted off the premises, which is very unusual IMO.


Production was stopped on new vans, indicating there is likely some legal/financial hold put on them by a loan or lean holder.


Nearly everything that costs cash, like all the meetups and tours, have been cancelled which probably means any cash they had is likely being held up either by a lender or court, so no liquidity.



Wendlund has confirmed that the COO was also let go, but I don't recall him mentioning the CFO, and if the CFO is involved with the other two it would point to classic recipe for embezzlement.


Hymer not saying anything is kind of understandable, but Thor being quiet isn't, I think, because they are publicly held and would normally be reassuring the stock holders that all is OK, it was OK.



This is certainly not what I would consider typical.

[RossWilliams]

Typical? Of what? We don't know. So lets fill that void of real information with conjecture.

Actually, none of the information you state as fact comes from reliable sources. As I recall, Mike Wedlund said the CFO was gone. He said nothing about the circumstances of his leaving. That is your speculation, whether true or not.

Thor, as a public company, has a responsibility to use due diligence and assure whatever public statements it makes are accurate. Maybe we should wait to hear what they have to say.

I just bought a used Roadtrek. So I have an interest in the company's continued success. I don't want to see it brought down by a lot of hot air being blown by people with a grudge spreading rumors.

And if you really want to speculate, why is the blog that initially posted most of those "facts" now blank: https://www.rvbusiness.com/? Not typical.

[gregmchugh]

The posted info now includes a response from Jim Hammill...

https://rvdailyreport.com/industry/e...tYKqB3BE-cGZAI

[booster]

Originally Posted by RossWilliams

Typical? Of what? We don't know. So lets fill that void of real information with conjecture.

Actually, none of the information you state as fact comes from reliable sources. As I recall, Mike Wedlund said the CFO was gone. He said nothing about the circumstances of his leaving. That is your speculation, whether true or not.

Thor, as a public company, has a responsibility to use due diligence and assure whatever public statements it makes are accurate. Maybe we should wait to hear what they have to say. Until then this is just hot air being blown by people with a grudge.

I based my observations on what I have seen stated and which seem credible, like the walking out of the CEO, etc. These are not stated as fact, but when they point in the same direction, credibility rises. I worked in manufacturing facilities for 50 years and saw and worked on quite a few buyouts, closings, acquisitions, etc and in my opinion this is not a normal or "typical" situation for the reasons I mentioned.



For some reason you seem to think that nobody should have an opinion on what is going on, which I truly don't understand, when your opinion is that nobody has enough information. As long as it is your opinion, you can continue to say that forever, no matter how much information is available. At that point it is never ending, and you can continue to say the same thing.