Jim Hammil leaving Roadtrek/Hymer?

[Bud]

"f Jim isn't directly implicated, he is still responsible for this happening on his watch. It's not unusual to have the head of the organization fall on his sword for this kind of thing. In my view, it couldn't happen to someone more deserving than him!"

wincrasher, it appears that someone loaned you their ax. Thanks, I did not have to borrow it or use mine.

Bud

[booster]

Originally Posted by avanti

Citing "past abuse" isn't good enough. The law places the burden of proof on the warrantor, meaning that they have to prove not just that such abuse occurred, but that that abuse actually caused the specific damage. This is not easy.

They can and will wave their hands and hope you will go away. But a nastygram from a spec lawyer will change their attitude, since the law also provides for the recovery of legal fees.

Very true, but unfortunately a lot of companies just say no as you mention and dare you to do something about it. Small claims court would be the likely solution and you would win most of the time, I think, but very few are actually willing to do it.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by booster

Very true, but unfortunately a lot of companies just say no as you mention and dare you to do something about it. Small claims court would be the likely solution and you would win most of the time, I think, but very few are actually willing to do it.

I once won a very sizable settlement after the fourth transmission failure on our Honda Odyssey. Didn’t take much more than a call to a spec lawyer and faxing some documents. The lawyers fees did not come out of my settlement.

[Glamper]

Amazing how EHGNA can continue to post promo videos during past two weeks and Pretend ‘business as usual’. As of Feb 2 they still have Hammill’s PR on website announcing Thor acquisition dated Sept 2018 https://www.gohymer.com/acquisition-erwin-hymer-group-thor-industries/

I don’t really care where Hammill is but EHG needs to
Communicate to customers. Dealers are selling their products and not disclosing this situation. I called a dealee to ask if they are placing new orders for Aktiv, he did not answer but pushed me towards existing inventory but said no issues with warranty which’s s clearly unknown at this point. Sleazy and unethical.

[booster]

Doesn't EHGNA need to be officially spun off of the EHG group, or were they truly setup as an independent entity originally? Would it be that the Hymer family now owns EHGNA as individuals?

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by Glamper

Amazing how EHGNA can continue to post promo videos during past two weeks and Pretend ‘business as usual’. As of Feb 2 they still have Hammill’s PR on website announcing Thor acquisition dated Sept 2018 https://www.gohymer.com/acquisition-erwin-hymer-group-thor-industries/

I don’t really care where Hammill is but EHG needs to
Communicate to customers. Dealers are selling their products and not disclosing this situation. I called a dealee to ask if they are placing new orders for Aktiv, he did not answer but pushed me towards existing inventory but said no issues with warranty which’s s clearly unknown at this point. Sleazy and unethical.

It appears that the issues came to light late in the Thor acquisition process and steps were taken to keep the acquisition on track and to investigate the issues. Erwin Hymer appears to me to be acting fairly quickly to get the facts of what actually happened and to come up with a plan for the next steps now that the acquisition is complete. Not sure how it could be done much faster in a way that based their actions on the actual facts of the situation.

[booster]

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

It appears that the issues came to light late in the Thor acquisition process and steps were taken to keep the acquisition on track and to investigate the issues. Erwin Hymer appears to me to be acting fairly quickly to get the facts of what actually happened and to come up with a plan for the next steps now that the acquisition is complete. Not sure how it could be done much faster in a way that based their actions on the actual facts of the situation.

How fast it gets resolved may revolve about how well the bad stuff was hidden and if anyone cooperates. It may be buried pretty well if it didn't show up on the Thor original due diligence.

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by booster

How fast it gets resolved may revolve about how well the bad stuff was hidden and if anyone cooperates. It may be buried pretty well if it didn't show up on the Thor original due diligence.

Yes, it could take awhile and if it does then I expect the employees and customers would get an update within a few weeks from when they started the investigation (which is what they said would happen).

There was info/speculation/rumors that the issues were found during the due diligence process for the acquisition so it may have been found by Thor.

What happened and how well it was hidden will be interesting to find out. When I worked a an engineer in large companies there were the typical complaints about the incompetence of upper management and lots of theories on how they had all kinds of grand plans to somewhow screw the employees. My response was that you can have one or the other, either they are incompetent or they develop grand plans but probably not both.

Given the number of people here who assess one or more of the old management to be not very competent then if you believe that then they may have not been involved but were not sharp enough to discover the issues but if they were involved they also probably didn’t do a very good job of covering up what they were doing...

Isn’t it fun to speculate without many facts...

[ClassB4Me]

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

Yes, it could take awhile and if it does then I expect the employees and customers would get an update within a few weeks from when they started the investigation (which is what they said would happen).

It is hard for me to figure out how this goes beyond Monday. The suppliers, payroll, creditors, lines of credit etc.

The company appears orphaned unless they reemerge as a stand-alone entity quickly. That potential $100 embezzlement if true is a major problem.

How does any new buyer of the company feel assured any embezzlement cancer has be truly removed from the company once the dust settles?

I have never seen a CEO suspended and removed from his organization unless there is evidence to consider him / her a primary suspect. If this ends with Jim being 100% innocent, his ability to lead has been wrecked.

Normally, the leadership from Germany would speak with the CEO and enlist him to sort out the mess. If they did not, he is probably implicated.

[booster]

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

Yes, it could take awhile and if it does then I expect the employees and customers would get an update within a few weeks from when they started the investigation (which is what they said would happen).

There was info/speculation/rumors that the issues were found during the due diligence process for the acquisition so it may have been found by Thor.

What happened and how well it was hidden will be interesting to find out. When I worked a an engineer in large companies there were the typical complaints about the incompetence of upper management and lots of theories on how they had all kinds of grand plans to somewhow screw the employees. My response was that you can have one or the other, either they are incompetent or they develop grand plans but probably not both.

Given the number of people here who assess one or more of the old management to be not very competent then if you believe that then they may have not been involved but were not sharp enough to discover the issues but if they were involved they also probably didn’t do a very good job of covering up what they were doing...

Isn’t it fun to speculate without many facts...

Having been through a lot of the same type of places as you have, most likely, I would say that I do think that you can have incompetent management IN TERMS OF BEING ABLE TO MAKE GOOD BUSINESS DECISIONS LIKE TECHNOLOGY AND CUSTOMER SERVICE, but they can also be able to craft complex and grand plans to cheat the company or employees because it is a totally different skillset. Incompetence doesn't always come with total stupidity, as it can be just that you are out of your field of expertise, but don't realize it.

[brianh]

There are auditors working hard to find as much truth as they can in what happened. Until they complete that process, it's impossible to know what the likely outcomes will be. There hasn't been any communication to customers, and probably very little to dealers, because nobody knows what to communicate yet. I can see a whole range of possible outcomes.

Maybe the discrepancies don't turn out to be as bad as first thought, and Thor's auditors played it up because maybe they didn't really want EHGNA in the first place and were only interested in Hymer's European operations. If this is the case then maybe Hammill survives, maybe he doesn't, but the most likely outcome is that it's spun off. In that case I'd bet the new company loses the right to use the Hymer brand name, and they'll probably consolidate under the Roadtrek brand. Whether or not they continue to make the Aktiv, Banff, etc. depends on the true sales figures for those newer offerings. Bottom line is the company would most likely survive.

On the other hand, if the discrepancies are found to be severe and deliberate, in which case the auditors will turn their findings over to authorities and there will be criminal proceedings. No way Hammill returns in this scenario whether he's charged or not. This scenario will play out based on whether the company still looks at all profitable after the fake numbers are removed. A liquidation of assets is one potential ultimate outcome at that point, but don't discount the possibility that Thor turns around and acquires EHGNA after all. In fact this could be their plan regardless, they'll just end up paying a much lower price.

[Glamper]

They could start by removing September Press release signed by Jim Hammil which states they are being acquired by Thor with no management changes, that clearly did not happen, the deal is closed, NA was excluded, Hammill is not there, out on medical leave, suspended, who knows, but not there. They could tell customers that NA was not part of the Thor acquisition, more information will be shared by (end of month, etc). But don't keep posting fun videos about Hymer pretending all is good. VP of marketing was contacted directly she chose to ignore the emails, but know that she was reading them as one was forarded to sales support. There total lack of communication and 'biz as usual' message is not a good sign IMO.

[Glamper]

I was thinking the same, after dust settles Thor comes in and buys NA at rock bottom price. clearly there are lots of potential scenarios depending on what they uncover.

[rowiebowie]

Originally Posted by Glamper

They could start by removing September Press release signed by Jim Hammil which states they are being acquired by Thor with no management changes, that clearly did not happen, the deal is closed, NA was excluded, Hammill is not there, out on medical leave, suspended, who knows, but not there. They could tell customers that NA was not part of the Thor acquisition, more information will be shared by (end of month, etc). But don't keep posting fun videos about Hymer pretending all is good. VP of marketing was contacted directly she chose to ignore the emails, but know that she was reading them as one was forarded to sales support. There total lack of communication and 'biz as usual' message is not a good sign IMO.

Right, they should at least do what they can to try to mitigate the potential damage they are doing to their brand, customers, and employees by not looking clueless.
.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by Glamper

They could start by removing September Press release signed by Jim Hammil

"They" are probably pretty busy right now updating their resumes. Lucky if they could find the admin password.

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by avanti

"They" are probably pretty busy right now updating their resumes. Lucky if they could find the admin password.

If not updating their resumes, probably sh*t deep in trying to figure out what to do about all this. Updating an old website post seems pretty low priority in the grand scheme of things...

Yes, they should be making sure they communicate their next steps as soon as they figure them out. I would rather have them create a solid plan rather than a quick response with no meat to it...

[Glamper]

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

If not updating their resumes, probably sh*t deep in trying to figure out what to do about all this. Updating an old website post seems pretty low priority in the grand scheme of things...

Yes, they should be making sure they communicate their next steps as soon as they figure them out. I would rather have them create a solid plan rather than a quick response with no meat to it...

GoHymer is not an old website. In addition EHGNA has posted promotional videos on their official Hymer Facebook page since this hit the fan. So someone in management is instructing them to do that. Meanwhile. Reps given instructions to tell customers business as usual. Clearly keeping customers in the dark is high priority for the EHG management team in charge now.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by Glamper

GoHymer is not an old website. In addition EHGNA has posted promotional videos on their official Hymer Facebook page since this hit the fan. So someone in management is instructing them to do that. Meanwhile. Reps given instructions to tell customers business as usual. Clearly keeping customers in the dark is high priority for the EHG management team in charge now.

Those promotional videos are very likely coming from an agency. If so, they will continue until they are told to stop, or until they don't get paid.

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by Glamper

Clearly keeping customers in the dark is high priority for the EHG management team in charge now.

Quite a leap there...

The new EHG managers have been in charge for a couple weeks now and the nay sayers are already giving them bad grades based on no real info from them on what they have found or what they plan to do. I will withhold judgement until they have provided info on their plan for what will happen next...

[bwolfsohn]

Originally Posted by Glamper

Reps given instructions to tell customers business as usual. Clearly keeping customers in the dark is high priority for the EHG management team in charge now.

I'm wondering, since EHGNA is not a public company (i think), the possibility exists we may never find out what has happened... They may just do a PR campaign to gloss it over...

No facts in evidence, just more pure speculation..