Jim Hammil leaving Roadtrek/Hymer?

[<<B-Guy>>]

Originally Posted by RossWilliams

I think that relates to the Thor stock (AKA equity) Hymer's owners received as apart of the purchase. But my knowledge of high finance is limited.

That makes sense - I thought maybe it might in some way have related to equity in the bldgs that EHGNA own in Canada and that they were still going to be included in what Thor would be getting - but your version seems more likely!

Brian.

[RossWilliams]

Originally Posted by avanti

When the dust settles, it may turn out that EHNA has negative value, and will simply serve as a bankruptcy vehicle. Quite possible that Thor will simply wait for that to happen and then pick up thr RT brand for a song.

There is zero evidence that EHNA has negative value. There is no reason to think Roadtrek is worth any less in the long run than it was when Hymer bought it.

If Thor wanted Roadtrek, they would have simply renegotiated the price. Thor has clearly stated the value of Hymer for them is in its European market.

[booster]

Originally Posted by RossWilliams

There is zero evidence that EHNA has negative value. There is no reason to think Roadtrek is worth any less in the long run than it was when Hymer bought it.

If Thor wanted Roadtrek, they would have simply renegotiated the price. Thor has clearly stated the value of Hymer for them is in its European market.

There is also no evidence that Roadtrek does not have a negative value, as it is private and nobody has seen the books.


The expansion, moves, new products, high warranty costs, etc could easily have put them in a highly leveraged position, I think.


The fact that Thor walked away from the NA part of the deal would also point to that possibility.


There is positively no reason to buy the NA side of the business at a loss, when it would be able to gotten for pennies on the dollar in a bankruptcy sale, so that may be what Thor is waiting for.

[RossWilliams]

Originally Posted by booster

There is also no evidence that Roadtrek does not have a negative value, as it is private and nobody has seen the books.


The expansion, moves, new products, high warranty costs, etc could easily have put them in a highly leveraged position, I think.


The fact that Thor walked away from the NA part of the deal would also point to that possibility.

There is positively no reason to buy the NA side of the business at a loss, when it would be able to gotten for pennies on the dollar in a bankruptcy sale, so that may be what Thor is waiting for.

Of course there is evidence Roadtrek has positive value. Hymer paid a bunch of money for it just a couple years ago.

Yes, its possible its been run into the ground financially since then. But there is no evidence for that except the wishful thinking of its detractors here.
If it was deeply in debt, why would Thor or Hymer have placed any value on Hymer NA to begin with? And they clearly did since they adjusted the price down.

The notion that their warranty commitments would bankrupt the company is ludicrous.

[RossWilliams]

Has it occurred to anyone that the reason there are no clear answers from Hymer about what is going on is that they don't want Thor to know its real value. They may have decided Thor's response to the reporting problems was an opportunity and that they had undervalued their European operations to Thor. Once the deal with Thor is closed, they can lift the veil and sell Roadtrek for more than Thor was originally paying for it.

Is that fanciful? Sure, but no more fanciful than the wishful thinking of hardened Roadtrek detractors that Roadtrek is going to be out of business.

And BTW, the owners of Hymer NA/Roadtrek are about to receive a boatload of cash from Thor as part of the sale. They may have other plans for that money but they certainly don't lack the resources if they think Roadtrek is worth the money.

[booster]

I am continuing to be amazed how a lot of folks can be chastised for having opinions on topics like this because "nothing is proven, or the there is no evidence" etc when the people doing the chastising are doing the exact same thing but coming up with a different opinion.


Maybe it is the rotten weather lately or a congenital need to argue about everything and anything, but it is pretty mystifying.

[B-RV]

Originally Posted by RossWilliams

Has it occurred to anyone that the reason there are no clear answers from Hymer about what is going on is that they don't want Thor to know its real value. They may have decided Thor's response to the reporting problems was an opportunity and that they had undervalued their European operations to Thor. Once the deal with Thor is closed, they can lift the veil and sell Roadtrek for more than Thor was originally paying for it.

Is that fanciful? Sure, but no more fanciful than the wishful thinking of hardened Roadtrek detractors that Roadtrek is going to be out of business.

I don't think your giving the Thor bean counters enough credit. Time will tell.
IF, and I capitalized if intentionally, IF over $100 million is gone/embezzled, Roadtrek is a goner. Again, time will tell, we should get the full scoop in the next 7-10 days.

[booster]

Originally Posted by RossWilliams

Of course there is evidence Roadtrek has positive value. Hymer paid a bunch of money for it just a couple years ago.

The notion that their warranty commitments would bankrupt the company is ludicrous.

So there no chance that a company could overpay in an acquisition? If you believe that, I have a really nice bridge for sale.


Does the company name Tataka ring a bell? Huge company hanging on the edge do to warranty/liability issues.

[ClassB4Me]

Originally Posted by booster

I am continuing to be amazed how a lot of folks can be chastised for having opinions on topics like this because "nothing is proven, or the there is no evidence" etc when the people doing the chastising are doing the exact same thing but coming up with a different opinion.


Maybe it is the rotten weather lately or a congenital need to argue about everything and anything, but it is pretty mystifying.

[booster]

Originally Posted by ClassB4Me

The first "lesson" in that book is how to totally discount everyone else's opinion that is different than your own.



The second "lesson" is to look at the information available.

[mumkin]

Roadtrek had value for Hymer when they purchased it. Although the investment company was eager to get rid of it which means they didn't feel that it produced enough cash income. Hymer wanted a foot hold in North America - with an existing factory and trained work force. Since their purchase they bought significant property and set up an expensive new factory line - and tripled the work force. They added the Hymer, Carado, Sunlight, and the trailer line. Not clear what work has been done on the third building they purchased.

Logical financial knowledge suggests that they didn't pay cash for all this... they financed it. What none of us can know is how deep a hole Hymer dug RT into. My experience suggests that it is deep enough that adding the current scandal into the mix was what pushed Thor out.

Considering the abysmal reputation of Thor warranty support, this whole situation has allowed them to dump the EHGNA part of the agreement with that extremely expensive 6 year warranty program... and perhaps pick it up for cheap after bankruptcy will have killed it. As the owner of a 2019 model, my expectations are low as to warranty support... as is my trust for large corporate concern for customers whose checks have cleared.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by RossWilliams

Has it occurred to anyone that the reason there are no clear answers from Hymer about what is going on is that they don't want Thor to know its real value. They may have decided Thor's response to the reporting problems was an opportunity and that they had undervalued their European operations to Thor. Once the deal with Thor is closed, they can lift the veil and sell Roadtrek for more than Thor was originally paying for it.
.

I'm guessing you've never sold a business. Between due diligence and the warranties and reps, "fanciful" isn't the word.

[ClassB4Me]

Maybe We Need An Official Roadtrek Deathwatch Thread

I want early notification when the Voltstart hits the fan.

Breaking news... Suspended CEO of Erwin Hymer Group North America (EHG NA) have been dragged out of his Kitchener home in the early hours of the morning by law enforcement according to a press release issued Thursday morning.






Roadtrek Fan Fiction

[RossWilliams]

There is no real evidence ANY money is gone. And even IF 100 million is gone, the owners have the resources to keep the company afloat. That is assuming it is a going enterprise producing quality RV's that people want to buy. Since Roadtrek has been doing that for a very long time, its very hard to see what has changed.

"I am continuing to be amazed how a lot of folks can be chastised for having opinions o"n topics like this because "nothing is proven, or the there is no evidence" etc when the people doing the chastising are doing the exact same thing but coming up with a different opinion."

I am continually amazed that people who form opinions based on nothing but imaginative conjecture object when people suggest alternative imaginative conjecture based on equivalent evidence.

[RossWilliams]

You wonder why that photo is from a Tennessee television station. How about a link.

[ClassB4Me]

Originally Posted by RossWilliams

You wonder why that photo is from a Tennessee television station. How about a link.

One has to wonder why you are taking this so seriously.

The title of the post clearly states "Roadtrek Fan Fiction"

Get a Grip.... Take a Chill Pill...

Are you related to any of the principles at EHG NA?

Are you on sick leave at home awaiting your fate?

You seem to be taking this so very personally.

[RossWilliams]

You might want to be aware that the email updates don't include your title. Sorry, I didn't see it. And yes, it did seem obviously fake since the links to the images were displayed.

"Are you on sick leave at home awaiting your fate?"

No, I am waiting for the temperature to get above -30 ...

[Glamper]

If even 20% of this is true someone needs to go to jail. Oh and BTW, I asked someone on chat line, about Hammill...he is on 'medical leave'...right.

"In preparing a financial audit of the North American operation for the sale, Hymer accountants discovered extremely serious financial “irregularities.” News reports unconfirmed by EHG but so far undisputed by the company allege that they involved false invoices paid to family members of key managers, falsified titles, inflated sales figures, inventory discrepancies and other problems totaling between $70 and $100 million."

[RossWilliams]

It depends on which 20% doesn't it? If it was, you would think some people would be under arrest wouldn't you? But none of that information comes from any identified credible source. The company hasn't even said there were "financial" irregularities, they used the term "reporting" irregularities. This is a perfect example of rumors repeated often enough becoming facts.

I will believe it when I hear it from a responsible company official who would actually have access to that kind of information. I am skeptical anyone in that position is sharing inside information with an industry blogger. Instead we are getting stuff off the company rumor mill. Some of if might be true, but most of it will be partially true at best.

[ClassB4Me]

Originally Posted by RossWilliams

It depends on which 20% doesn't it? And none of that information comes from an identified credible source. The company hasn't even said there were "financial" irregularities, they used the term "reporting" irregularities. This is a perfect example of rumors repeated often enough becoming facts.

I will believe it when I hear it from a responsible company official who would actually have access to that kind of information. I am skeptical anyone in that position is sharing inside information with an industry blogger. Instead we are getting stuff off the company rumor mill. Some of if might be true, but most of it will be partially true at best.

I find it hard to believe Thor would decouple EHG NA from any acquisition and rework a major purchase agreement on 'reporting irregularities'.

I have been part of mergers and acquisition as a senior executive and if it was simply a matter of reporting irregularities, the sellers could attach an addendum to compensate Thor for any unfavorable reporting errors discovered post the finalizing of the deal. What was discovered was material.

A substantial portion of funds could be placed in an escrow account for said purpose as well.

There will probably not be any criminal charges announced / filed until after the purchase has been completed. Thor is a publicly traded company and does not want any negative EHG NA news to impact the stock.