Is wood a good build material or makes it heavy..

[JennG]

I saw this van on thevancamper.com and inquired about it but didn't pursue, but recently the owner sent out mass emails to those who sent an inquiry I guess, about a price drop. I loved the van and would look at the ad over and over and with the price drop it was not an unreasonable price for the quality of the build, there are many vans out there close to the price point much similar with NO bathroom but maybe it's because they have four wheel drive but I thought maybe it is hard for the seller to sell, because it's heavy with all the woodcabinetry and with gas prices now, not so concerned with the price of the van but the mileage. Turtleback trailers went out of business, beautiful vans but again, maybe too heavy? Or easy to catch fire and burn? Did not ask the seller the total weight, could check through math to see if the weight exceeds payload of vehicle. But other than woodtrim or a wooden skin or ceiling don't see ANY wooden trailers or van-anyone know why? https://www.highestqualityvan.com/
The person has built two other vans but doesn't have a company so don't know how expert he is in a van build which may be why others didn't bite at first.

[SteveJ]

It seems that the only way to get domestic hot water from the hot water tank is to start the engine and either idle for quite a while or drive it, not boondock friendly at all.

I also did not see a spec for water tank size, vehicle weight or cargo capacity. LP tank is critically too small.

As part of a test drive if it gets to that point do swing by someplace to get it weighed.

As we do almost all dry/boondock camping this van would be a non-starter for us.

[mkguitar]

I have a mass produced Pleasure Way which uses common rv components such as the fridge, furnace, hot water etc.


If I have an issue, hundreds or thousands of others may be able to help


The systems are built from a plan, to a code, which has been repeated on other units
Common systems will be AC power
DC power ( add solar maybe)
Batteries ( which technology, how is it supported)
LP Gas
Water/plumbing
Waste tanks
Hot water

Controls and safety such as CO, LP, Smoke detectors, fire extinguisher and how to exit.


the "build" requires that all the cabinetry etc not collapse onto people in case of a vehicle accident, offer utility and comfort, and allow access to or servicing of the systems


The vehicle capable of supporting the use, the chassis, suspension, the tires etc rated for the weight ?



I work in the music world where we recognize that there is often little difference between "custom-made"
and "I made it on the kitchen table"


one in a million kitchen table projects are worth the investment
the fewer people involved, the narrower the perspective.


to answer the header, wood can be a very good material for a build. it all depends on who did it, using which materials, the design and craft


a custom build can be amazing, but it requires an experienced eye to judge the utility



mike

[avanti]

Originally Posted by mkguitar

the "build" requires that all the cabinetry etc not collapse onto people in case of a vehicle accident

@mkguitar:
I agree with all of your post except the above excerpt, which gives me pause.

This is more of a question than a claim, but how much attention do the mass-market upfitters really give to crash safety? I am aware of very few actual B-van crash tests, and most of those seem to have not gone well. Absent such tests, confidence in the safety of any given design seems to me to be dubious.

Am I wrong in being skeptical about the crash-worthiness of typical mass-production B-vans?

[Punkinhead]

Beautiful woodwork but I'd want to get it weighed. I'm VERY skeptical of the 5100 lb towing capacity listed under specs. That van is probably close to GVWR as is and all that weight is going to reduce GCWR. I doubt that van can actually tow anything. Most B van owners probably don't tow so that might not be a concern, but I'd be concerned about being over GVWR with two people, full water, and all the clothes/food/chairs/etc that go along with travel.

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by avanti

@mkguitar:
I agree with all of your post except the above excerpt, which gives me pause.

This is more of a question than a claim, but how much attention do the mass-market upfitters really give to crash safety? I am aware of very few actual B-van crash tests, and most of those seem to have not gone well. Absent such tests, confidence in the safety of any given design seems to me to be dubious.

Am I wrong in being skeptical about the crash-worthiness of typical mass-production B-vans?

Conversions based 80/20 aluminum framing are likely the strongest contenders in van safety domain. Engineering calculation are reasonably easy, I calculated modules attachment points for 3G loads.

Commonly used particle board / staples combo is likely on the bottom regarding safety.

A good example for questionable safety standards in camper van conversions are rear safety belts, as far as I know the only way to get tested safety belts is to get EU TÜV tested rock and roll sofa beds.

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by JennG

I saw this van on thevancamper.com and inquired about it but didn't pursue, but recently the owner sent out mass emails to those who sent an inquiry I guess, about a price drop. I loved the van and would look at the ad over and over and with the price drop it was not an unreasonable price for the quality of the build, there are many vans out there close to the price point much similar with NO bathroom but maybe it's because they have four wheel drive but I thought maybe it is hard for the seller to sell, because it's heavy with all the woodcabinetry and with gas prices now, not so concerned with the price of the van but the mileage. Turtleback trailers went out of business, beautiful vans but again, maybe too heavy? Or easy to catch fire and burn? Did not ask the seller the total weight, could check through math to see if the weight exceeds payload of vehicle. But other than woodtrim or a wooden skin or ceiling don't see ANY wooden trailers or van-anyone know why? https://www.highestqualityvan.com/
The person has built two other vans but doesn't have a company so don't know how expert he is in a van build which may be why others didn't bite at first.

It seems as this conversion was done by the mahogany lover, I would ask the question what mahogany has to do with camping.

[mkguitar]

Originally Posted by avanti

Am I wrong in being skeptical about the crash-worthiness of typical mass-production B-vans?

not at all


the original roadtrek used to crash test


and industry certifications will give some assurance


a repeated construction method would display weaknesses, which hopefully would be remedied over time- especially if this impacts costs through warranty services



Mike

[Davydd]

It's a 2500 van and judging by what i saw and know now about weight in a 2500 it looks over weight. Custom builds can get away from you easily. Even Advanced RV screwed up with this BBox RV in not paying attention and admitted it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xy_JpNVzX8s

As for all wood, Advanced RV built this 3500 van with all cedar wood cabinetry successfully. They went all out on this one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMclDTwPwTk

[JennG]

Originally Posted by SteveJ

It seems that the only way to get domestic hot water from the hot water tank is to start the engine and either idle for quite a while or drive it, not boondock friendly at all.

I also did not see a spec for water tank size, vehicle weight or cargo capacity. LP tank is critically too small.

As part of a test drive if it gets to that point do swing by someplace to get it weighed.

As we do almost all dry/boondock camping this van would be a non-starter for us.

Steve, are the reasons above the ONLY reasons you WOULD not buy it, if there are others, please tell me, intellectually there are probably other reasons as it has been so long on the market, it's not the price because many mass market prices are that level without the shower, emotionally I am quite taken by it as that is NOT a good reason to buy an expensive vehicle so I need to convince myself.

[jrobe]

My first impression of that build is that there aren't any windows. That is a dark, dreary interior that would seem like a pretty small claustrophobic space to live. Why not look at the lake or mountains I came here to see instead of mahogany cabinets. There also isn't anywhere to sit after a long day of driving except the same driver's seat swiveled around. I am sure that the guy is a good woodworker but I would have saved that build for the fireplace den in my home and spent my camping vacation as open to the wide outdoors as possible with windows and a more open design. Your weight concerns certainly are justified. There is a reason he is lowering his price and maybe a reason he is selling it in the first place. His resale audience is going to be limited on that van depending on his price.

Just out of curiosity, what is his asking price?

[JennG]

Originally Posted by jrobe

My first impression of that build is that there aren't any windows. That is a dark, dreary interior that would seem like a pretty small claustrophobic space to live. Why not look at the lake or mountains I came here to see instead of mahogany cabinets. There also isn't anywhere to sit after a long day of driving except the same driver's seat swiveled around. I am sure that the guy is a good woodworker but I would have saved that build for the fireplace den in my home and spent my camping vacation as open to the wide outdoors as possible with windows and a more open design. Your weight concerns certainly are justified. There is a reason he is lowering his price and maybe a reason he is selling it in the first place. His resale audience is going to be limited on that van depending on his price.

Just out of curiosity, what is his asking price?

Here is thel ad https://conversiontrader.com/listing...ny-travel-van/ he told me that he took 16k off and I don't think he is selling it for $107K so this must be the newest price.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by jrobe

My first impression of that build is that there aren't any windows.

Yes. I frequently find myself coming across interior images of B-vans for which my first impression is "Wow, that looks really complete and comfortable. How did they fit all that in?". I then inevitably realize that they did it by sacrificing windows. That is what this guy did. It is what the ARV "Cedar" van did, and also what many of the so-called "B-Box-style" C-vans do (partly for structural reasons, I assume).

[JennG]

Please excuse me if my questions seem stupid, but using logic when I looked for a weight of ceder vs mahogany I only found this chart,

https://cedarstripkayak.wordpress.co...lection/162-2/

Am I correct in assuming if cedar is twice the density of mahog, than it is twice the weight and if it is too heavy for the chassis than the fuel mileage is the least of my problems and it will damage the chassis (I'm not sure what but something?) I am learning a lot from this forum, and thank you all for kindly helping. I was looking at a website for Wayfarer vans, and one praised the company saying that it was affordable compared to van porn (though I think she was referring to extremely expensive conversions-always thought they would be cheaper than "Winnebago etc." type brands but many times not, due to I guess that they are hand crafted and not assembly produced) but this van is one as it is something you might lust after but for various reasons should not to get

[jrobe]

There is nothing wrong with just asking him to send you a certified weight report from a scale. That can be obtained easily at any truck stop so there is no guessing.

A few other thoughts I had. He wasted a lot of valuable space with an oven. I can bake cookies at home and just buy a box for the van. In my opinion, he also wasted space with a huge refrigerator. Our refrigerator is half that size but it holds the equivalent of about 2 to 2 1/2 cases of drinks. I wouldn't waste space with a refrigerator that holds 4-5 cases when I can replace what we used every night from the closet.

His propane furnace probably works well but I did the math and his 4 gal propane tank will only run that furnace for about 50 hours. Anyone who uses the heat much will be filling the propane tank quite a bit which is a pain. I am surprised with all his other decisions that he didn't install a gasoline furnace and run it off his gas tank.

On th other hand, most people wouldn't want a custom RV that I designed and built because it too would be highly individualized to my liking.

[Punkinhead]

The mahogany is heavy, but those thick oak countertops are even heavier.

[JennG]

I am convinced that all of you are right so will not buy it, he may have built on beauty but on other things he doesn't seem to have think things through (say that 3 time fast ) but yes, I think you are quite different than many people who would buy a van at that price point, you sound like you should only have a weekender, with only a bed, camp stove and cooler. This van would be for full timers at THAT price, who would use an oven for more than baking cookies (many people buy an older RV for that as many newer ones don't have an oven), I myself will bring a small convection oven, as I do NOT like microwaves, that way I don't have to spend a lot of time prepping and cooking, just stick a TV dinner in there and a fridge to store more than drinks (salads and leftovers.)

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by JennG

Please excuse me if my questions seem stupid, but using logic when I looked for a weight of ceder vs mahogany I only found this chart,

https://cedarstripkayak.wordpress.co...lection/162-2/

Am I correct in assuming if cedar is twice the density of mahog, than it is twice the weight and if it is too heavy for the chassis than the fuel mileage is the least of my problems and it will damage the chassis (I'm not sure what but something?) I am learning a lot from this forum, and thank you all for kindly helping. I was looking at a website for Wayfarer vans, and one praised the company saying that it was affordable compared to van porn (though I think she was referring to extremely expensive conversions-always thought they would be cheaper than "Winnebago etc." type brands but many times not, due to I guess that they are hand crafted and not assembly produced) but this van is one as it is something you might lust after but for various reasons should not to get

Read the chart again. In addition, he is using another hardwood - oak for countertop. Take this van on a scale.

[Davydd]

A lot of deception in the description of this van.

What is the capacity of the fresh water and grey tank? Did I miss it?

That gas mileage statement if true of 26 mpg had to come from RAM based on an empty van.

No black tank obviously as it has a porta-potty.

No generator.

I don't see an air conditioner. Is he implying the cab chassis is the air conditioner?

Hot water is truly bazaar in needing to drive to get hot water.

No specifics on the refrigerator and freezer but obviously a good size.

Nice gas stove and oven if that is your thing. A better option if you want to bake in a van, is a combination microwave and convection oven. You can bake pizza, bread AND cookies.

That gas stove/oven and mahogany is the show stopper that gets your attention to ignore everything else or deficiencies. I agree about getting a certified weight statement.

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by Davydd

It's a 2500 van and judging by what i saw and know now about weight in a 2500 it looks over weight. Custom builds can get away from you easily. Even Advanced RV screwed up with this BBox RV in not paying attention and admitted it.

.............

I assume a lot of changes/addition in the process likely caused this fiasco. ARV could easily calculate the weight from the BOM sheet which they needed for the cost estimate. I am sure ARV will learn from this mishap and maintain the weight sheet from start to finish.