Is wood a good build material or makes it heavy..

[Bud]

Originally Posted by GeorgeRa

I assume a lot of changes/addition in the process likely caused this fiasco. ARV could easily calculate the weight from the BOM sheet which they needed for the cost estimate. I am sure ARV will learn from this mishap and maintain the weight sheet from start to finish.

Hi George, he called it 'Negligence'. Very impressive, imho.

I'm serious. He could have called it an 'oversight', he could have never ever have made a video, he could have .......................

It is almost like AVR 'showing off'! Still, I'm impressed.

Who would not like to buy from someone like that?

Bud

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by avanti

Yes. I frequently find myself coming across interior images of B-vans for which my first impression is "Wow, that looks really complete and comfortable. How did they fit all that in?". I then inevitably realize that they did it by sacrificing windows. That is what this guy did. It is what the ARV "Cedar" van did, and also what many of the so-called "B-Box-style" C-vans do (partly for structural reasons, I assume).

Any rear bathroom B van is immediately going to diminish your view. That Nelson van did that on the customer's design desires and request. The passenger side is fully windowed and the sliding door and the window directly behind the B pillar on the driver's side is windowed. The only place not windowed I think is the driver's side where the bed is. I guess that is a customer design request because there is a fake window on the exterior. She can see out the window from the bed on the passenger side. The photos do look overbearing in cedar wood but the necessary windows are there.

The B-Box style C's I don't know much about but I agree their window selections seem small and they don't have a large windowed sliding door. That is true with many Class C's. Edit… I’ve been thinking about this but haven’t investigated. B vans have clear, expansive window cutouts that third party manufacturers have accommodated. Other windows haven’t been as expansive witness the meager sliders put in B vans. Maybe the choice of windows is not that great.

On my short Mies van I knew I was going to sacrifice the rear windows for storage and the bathroom but I did manage to see out the passenger side rear window while driving and have it for our bunk beds. The driver's side back window is real but the tall storage blocks it. I also have a large hatch skylight for the upper bunk and a passenger side window for the lower bunk. At first I was looking through the rear view mirror at that back door window but now ignore it. The rear view mirror now is only for seeing back on the inside now. I've adapted to the side mirrors now. The cab windows are ample augmented with the sliding door window and the driver's side window behind the B-pillar which is covers the kitchen counter. The front of the van is fully windowed or say a 270 degree view. If you want windows 360 degrees of view you will have to sacrifice such things as tall cabinets, microwaves and refrigerators at comfortable, practical heights and and privacy toilet rooms.

You might have noticed that recent photo of the back of the van with windows was deceiving. The back doors were fully open and there was no upper cabinet storage that most vans have. We fully open our rear passenger side door routinely for light and ventilation. We have even slept with the door open overnight in selective situations (not a Walmart ).

[SteveJ]

Originally Posted by JennG

Steve, are the reasons above the ONLY reasons you WOULD not buy it, if there are others, please tell me, intellectually there are probably other reasons as it has been so long on the market, it's not the price because many mass market prices are that level without the shower, emotionally I am quite taken by it as that is NOT a good reason to buy an expensive vehicle so I need to convince myself.

Looking at the specs from the maker it does appear to have an alternate way to heat domestic water, but not sure what that is.

The portable A/C unit is totally inadequate at only 2300BTUs.

It's only a 2500 so the build weight has to be pretty close. I would be concerned seein's how they don't list the weights. Same with the water tanks, I didn't see any capacities listed.

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by GeorgeRa

I assume a lot of changes/addition in the process likely caused this fiasco. ARV could easily calculate the weight from the BOM sheet which they needed for the cost estimate. I am sure ARV will learn from this mishap and maintain the weight sheet from start to finish.

They do. I went through it and had to make several decisions and suggestions by them in my build to keep the weight down to execute a 2500 design. Some I liked, some I reluctantly agreed with and some I made decision going in on my own. I worked from a detailed BOM sheet. I don't know why it happened with Boxy Lady but the customer evidently didn't go through with the purchase.

[eric1514]

Originally Posted by SteveJ

Looking at the specs from the maker it does appear to have an alternate way to heat domestic water, but not sure what that is.

...

The first generation Travato G vans had an Atwood water heater that ran on 120v, not propane or 12v, but was capable of heating water using the engine coolant. Winnebago chose not to run the lines and use that feature. Perhaps this van has both heat sources hooked up.

Atwood EHM6/EHM6-SM Electric Water Heater w/Heat Exchanger - 6Gal - 110V

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by eric1514

The first generation Travato G vans had an Atwood water heater that ran on 120v, not propane or 12v, but was capable of heating water using the engine coolant. Winnebago chose not to run the lines and use that feature. Perhaps this van has both heat sources hooked up.

Atwood EHM6/EHM6-SM Electric Water Heater w/Heat Exchanger - 6Gal - 110V

You might be right about that Atwood. I couldn't find any energy use info in that link but he never said you could operate it on 120V AC and that leads me with the belief it wasn't connected that way in promoting the engine use a few times.

I can operate my hot water glycol exchange separate from the engine on electric instead of on the diesel -fired mode but it takes several more minutes to get hot water that which I assume is a 1500W electric heater. I never use it that way unless I am on shore power. I don't have a 6 gallon tank as it is instant draw from the fresh tank. The warm up is for the glycol. How long would it take that Atwood to heat 6 gallons off shore power or the batteries?

[jrobe]

That Atwood unit may work very well but it seems like an odd decision to mess around with a coolant linked system just for hot water when you are hauling around a propane tank anyway for the furnace. He could have easily just put in an inexpensive and simple 6 gal propane hot water heater that would take very little propane and give him hot water within 5-10 minutes whether he drives or not (or whether he has shore power or not).

Our van has a propane tank for hot water and cooking which I fill about every 4 years and a furnace that runs virtually forever off the vans fuel tank (diesel for us). For us, the furnace was the big user of propane and the place to spend the effort and the money to reduce propane use but still have the propane benefit for cooking and quick hot water. To each his own though.

[Rocinante]

Originally Posted by GeorgeRa

I assume a lot of changes/addition in the process likely caused this fiasco. ARV could easily calculate the weight from the BOM sheet which they needed for the cost estimate. I am sure ARV will learn from this mishap and maintain the weight sheet from start to finish.

Yep, this is a classic case of fatal feature creep. The client was clearly out of control, and sadly ARV didn't intervene to say, "No, sorry, that's going to make it too heavy." I'm impressed at the transparency of their presentation of the issue, how it happened, and how they're fixing it while simultaneously making it a better camper. I imagine they will sell the modified, lighter, and better unit quickly, or have already done so.

As I've often said, if money were no object we'd have an ARV unit right now. Since it is, we're still in an Airstream Interstate. Our unit is nice and we like it of course, but it's no an ARV.

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by eric1514

The first generation Travato G vans had an Atwood water heater that ran on 120v, not propane or 12v, but was capable of heating water using the engine coolant. Winnebago chose not to run the lines and use that feature. Perhaps this van has both heat sources hooked up.

Atwood EHM6/EHM6-SM Electric Water Heater w/Heat Exchanger - 6Gal - 110V

This a very common installation in the marine industry for hot water using marine water heaters. Isotemp by Indel Webasto Marine gained popularity in the Sprinter conversion world. Marine water heaters can be heated by electric heaters or hot coolant flowing through an internal heat exchanger. Hot coolant can come from the engine cooling system or from independent hydronic heater like Eberspacher D5 5000W furnace which is what I have. My electric heater heating capacity is 750W AC.

I run my Eberspacher D5 twice a day for about 15 min each time and a very well insulated Isotemp marine water heater keeps water hot for minimum 12 hours or more.

[eric1514]

That Atwood heater was chosen by Winnebago because of its location in the Travato G. A propane fired water heater in the same location would have had its exhaust port only inches from the gasoline fuel fill and was too dangerous.

It takes about 15 minutes traveling down the road to make hot water and that water is extremely hot, hotter than the thermostatically controlled electric element will heat. You must install a mixing valve on the output of the heater as the water will get as hot as your engine coolant.

[MsNomer]

The 26 mpg is a flat-out lie.

[jrobe]

I found his website and listing very interesting. Most of the "for sale" listings that you see online are terrible with lousy pictures (if hardly any pictures at all) and very poor descriptions. They look like they were thrown together with absolutely no thought or preparation. This guys website and listing are the absolute polar opposite. He must be a web designer or videographer or both. He made his listing look like a Hollywood production.

For me though, it had the opposite effect from what he probably intended. It was so over the top that it really raised my level of suspicion. I felt like I was being fast pitched a shiny diamond that might be fake. I found myself skeptical of the whole van (maybe wrongly so). It was an interesting study though in advertising.

[AndreTheAlchemist]

Aloha my friend. I am Andre. The designer and main builder of the Mahogany Travel Van.

Indeed I am a videographer, woodworker, and I designed the website using Wix. Time consuming but not hard.

I was able to find this thread because I am able to see how traffic is generated to my website.

I built the van with my brother and sister in law. It’s funny to listen to a conversation about you from the outside. It’s like I’m a ghost observing a conversation about myself while no one knows I’m in the same room haha. But I appreciate the perspectives. I’m in Hawaii now, big island. And my brother and sister in law are with the van in Florida. I’m trying to get them to weigh it soon.

I made the production value so extravagant because I’m just an all-in person. Go big or go home. I do videography, all different sorts so I had to go all in on the video. I love video and photo, it’s fun. Costs me nothing to make. My first build paid for my camera equipment!

I made this van because I wanted to make something crazy extravagant. I wanted to make the most extravagant van ever made honestly. I’m a pusher of my own boundaries and I wanted to make something like a mansion on wheels.

I found it funny that it could appear suspicious. I’m just a man who goes every extra mile available when I can. I’m a hippy dude living in Hawaii just trying to eat off the land and live in nature. I’m going to use the van profits to pay some bills and put money down on a festival I’m creating, or possibly buy some land.

I felt called to come and say hello. I meant to be transparent with every aspect of the vehicle. I believe all specs (with the lone exception of weight) is available on the website as well as all places I posted it.

I’m flattered that it’s so well done that it’s suspicious haha

Nice to hear from you all and drop in. Have a great day my friends. Nice to virtually meet ya

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by AndreTheAlchemist

Aloha my friend. I am Andre. The designer and main builder of the Mahogany Travel Van.

Indeed I am a videographer, woodworker, and I designed the website using Wix. Time consuming but not hard.

I was able to find this thread because I am able to see how traffic is generated to my website.

I built the van with my brother and sister in law. It’s funny to listen to a conversation about you from the outside. It’s like I’m a ghost observing a conversation about myself while no one knows I’m in the same room haha. But I appreciate the perspectives. I’m in Hawaii now, big island. And my brother and sister in law are with the van in Florida. I’m trying to get them to weigh it soon.

I made the production value so extravagant because I’m just an all-in person. Go big or go home. I do videography, all different sorts so I had to go all in on the video. I love video and photo, it’s fun. Costs me nothing to make. My first build paid for my camera equipment!

I made this van because I wanted to make something crazy extravagant. I wanted to make the most extravagant van ever made honestly. I’m a pusher of my own boundaries and I wanted to make something like a mansion on wheels.

I found it funny that it could appear suspicious. I’m just a man who goes every extra mile available when I can. I’m a hippy dude living in Hawaii just trying to eat off the land and live in nature. I’m going to use the van profits to pay some bills and put money down on a festival I’m creating, or possibly buy some land.

I felt called to come and say hello. I meant to be transparent with every aspect of the vehicle. I believe all specs (with the lone exception of weight) is available on the website as well as all places I posted it.

I’m flattered that it’s so well done that it’s suspicious haha

Nice to hear from you all and drop in. Have a great day my friends. Nice to virtually meet ya

So you got yourself a quasi-unintended marketing focus group, did you learn something from it, what functional changes would you do or you still think your van is just about perfect.

[michaelingp]

Originally Posted by AndreTheAlchemist

I meant to be transparent with every aspect of the vehicle. I believe all specs (with the lone exception of weight) is available on the website as well as all places I posted it.

Where did you get the fuel economy numbers? They don't seem realistic compared to my experience with a smaller Promaster.

[MsNomer]

The only PM that ever got 26 mpg was the diesel, which was discontinued in 2017. Gas PM's generally get ~18-20 mpg before conversion. Final mpg seems to depend more on roof paraphernalia than on weight. Length and roof height don’t matter much.

[AndreTheAlchemist]

I’m looking for it now, I know i saw it online as the “Highway mpg” (as if you were driving fast speeds for long time periods) but I honestly can’t even find where I saw that. I know I saw it but can’t find it. I remember when I had my 2017 Promaster 2500 I would be getting 20 mpg at times. So I didn’t find it hard to believe a couple years later would bring that 6 mpg improvement. So there wasn’t ever intentional deceit or lies. That’s actually completely against my belief system. I try to never lie to anybody ever.

But Honestly I was deep in the process of getting all of the statistics and creating the website and making the video and shooting the video and moving to Hawaii all the same week. So I did my best. I really put my all into everything.

Thanks for sharing all of this though my friends , I’m happy to get the perspectives. When nobody tells me my shortcomings I can’t improve. So I appreciate y’all

[AndreTheAlchemist]

Originally Posted by MsNomer

The 26 mpg is a flat-out lie.

No my friend you just blindly said that without looking. Here it says combined 26 mpg on the 2019 Ram Promaster 2500

https://www.carhp.com/ram/promaster-2022/mpg

[Punkinhead]

Originally Posted by AndreTheAlchemist

No my friend you just blindly said that without looking. Here it says combined 26 mpg on the 2019 Ram Promaster 2500

https://www.carhp.com/ram/promaster-2022/mpg

No, it's just like the 5000 lb towing capacity claim - it's not true for a van that heavy. Read up on GVWR and GCWR. You've likely exceeded GVWR and the weight has certainly effected GCWR to the point the van can't actually tow anything.

Manufacturer specs don't apply to a van that heavy. Beautiful woodwork though.

[AndreTheAlchemist]

You can also heat up water via electric with a switch in the kitchen (it has a red light that goes on when you flip the switch so you never forget and leave it on)

You’re right, I missed the water tank sizes! Fresh water tank is 33 gallons and grey water is 35 gallons.

We are getting the van weighed within a few days (I’m currently in Hawaii so my family has to do it and they like to take their time).

I definitely wouldn’t say the propane is too small at all. It’s only being used for stove/oven/heater. So a 5.9 gallon tank is plenty’s adequate. And it’s definitely amongst the largest propane tanks that you could fit under a Promaster. It was basically maxed out in size if you want it outside of the vehicle.

Totally boon-docking ready.