Is it normal that...

[Urlauber]

Originally Posted by Davydd

This looks like an upgrade in dash replacement for a stock radio that was connected to the chassis battery and other dash functions you have to activate with the key. What makes you think otherwise or is it just wishful thinking? I doubt it is wrong or a mistake as it is normal. This is a question for the upfitter.

Thank you. What makes me think is

1) Do I really leave the ignition turned on to enjoy a day in the RV with music and books? Doesn't that drain the battery?
2) The user manual suggests the coach battery switch has to be ON in order to have the dash radio work. Not the case, doesn't make a diff.
3) Even if the key is in the ignition the radio will turn off, I actually have to switch it so the dashboard lights and everything is on... seems like a big waste of electricity.

Originally Posted by Jon in AZ

Can't speak to all makes, but I'd expect a dashboard-mounted sound system to run off the chassis battery. That's how it is in my Chevy Roadtrek. I have to turn the key to the ACC position to listen to the radio when parked. IIRC correctly, there's a separate switch to turn on the rear speakers, which were added during the upfit and (I assume) run off the coach battery.

If the sound system is mounted in the coach area, I would expect it to be powered off the coach batteries.

OK, thank you! See my reasoning above, but like I said, I am new to this so therefore the questions. There is Zone Control on the sound system so I can either run all 4 speakers from the same source, or different things in the dash and the seating area in the back.

[Jon in AZ]

Interesting, Michael. So it can be either way.

Next question, though, is do you really want to change it? Sometimes I drive the van between trips with the coach system turned off. If the coach batteries get low, I still have the radio, navigation, rear camera, and other functions when driving. In a mass-market build like Thor, I'd say chassis wiring is probably more robust than coach wiring.

I can see pros and cons both ways.

I don't think you want to leave the ignition in the ON position (instrument panel lit up) for a long time with the engine off, though. Seems like it ought to work from the ACC position. I would investigate that, starting with the chassis owner's manual.

[Urlauber]

Originally Posted by @Michael

On my Coachmen Crossfit/Beyond, the aftermarket in-dash Kenwood is powered from the coach battery, not the chassis battery. It is partially integrated with the chassis electrical though, as it has a parking brake sensor that prevent playing DVD's unless parking brake is set.

Thanks for confirming, now I don't feel like I am completely nuts.

Originally Posted by @Michael

Are you comfortable pulling the unit out and tracing the wires? If so, yes. Otherwise I'm fairly sure that any competent stereo installer would be able to handle this.

Probably... need to have a closer look at the manual. Just the Quick Start one is like 80 pages. Pulling and tracing, yeah, but putting in new wires that connect to the correct places in the fuse box... hmmm.

Originally Posted by LostInWoods

At the risk of being snapped at for suggesting it, there is a Scope/Rize FB group that will probably be a better place to ask rig specific questions like this. Others who actually have that model might have answers or solutions that the (very knowledgeable) generalists here can only surmise.

I know... totally self-inflicted, I stay away from FB.

I may need to talk to a stereo installer somewhere.

[Urlauber]

Originally Posted by Jon in AZ

Interesting. So it can be either way.

Next question, though, is do you really want to change it? Sometimes I drive the van between trips with the coach system turned off. If the coach batteries get low, I still have the radio, navigation, rear camera, and other functions when driving. In a mass-market build like Thor, I'd say chassis wiring is probably more robust than coach wiring.

Good point, and I have yet to go on trips with this camper, so it my thinking might reverse over time. But, I think, generally speaking, I would almost always want to drive with the coach switch turned ON so the batteries are topped off by the alternator, the fridge runs well, etc.
Not sure what you mean by "more robust" since the radio isn't a high amp draw but I'll take your word for it.

Originally Posted by Jon in AZ

I don't think you want to leave the ignition in the ON position (instrument panel lit up) for a long time with the engine off, though. Seems like it ought to work from the ACC position. I would investigate that, starting with the chassis owner's manual.

I can see pros and cons both ways.

Agreed.
The Chassis owners manual doesn't refer to the unit that is installed. It's part of the aftermarket remodel, I just think they connected it wrong.

[Jon in AZ]

Originally Posted by Urlauber

Not sure what you mean by "more robust" since the radio isn't a high amp draw but I'll take your word for it.

RVs do not have an integrated wiring harness, just circuits going this way and that. I've owned numerous RVs and it seems like there's often something going wrong with the 12V system- loose connections, wires rubbing and friction damage... How often does that happen in a modern motor vehicle?

[Urlauber]

Originally Posted by Jon in AZ

RVs do not have an integrated wiring harness, just circuits going this way and that. I've owned numerous RVs and it seems like there's often something going wrong with the 12V system- loose connections, wires rubbing and friction damage... How often does that happen in a modern motor vehicle?

Gotcha! Very true. The way the panels were connected doesn't instill a lot of trust in the other work the outfitter does.

[mumkin]

From my signature, you can see I have had 5 rigs: 1 Ford, 2 Chevys, and 2 Promasters. On all but one, the radio/sound system ran off the chassis battery as they came from the original manufacturer.

The LTV on the Chevy 3500 had an upgraded radio, which was also a DVD player and it ran off the house battery. But, the darn thing would turn itself on... and you would get in and the radio would be playing away. Luckily, since I lived near the LTV factory and they held my warranty rather than a dealer, I was going up to get the correct window coverings and they said they would fix it at the same time. They added a switch on the dash to turn the sound system off.

One problem with switching out the head unit in a Promaster is that you lose the ability to communicate with the Promaster computer for lots of adjustments that are normally done through the uConnect.. like setting date/time, locking options, headlights and such.

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by Urlauber

Thank you. What makes me think is

1) Do I really leave the ignition turned on to enjoy a day in the RV with music and books? Doesn't that drain the battery?
2) The user manual suggests the coach battery switch has to be ON in order to have the dash radio work. Not the case, doesn't make a diff.
3) Even if the key is in the ignition the radio will turn off, I actually have to switch it so the dashboard lights and everything is on... seems like a big waste of electricity

I doubt I can convert my dash radio to the house batteries and I don't even want to try. It is the Mercedes Benz User Experience (MBUX) 10" touch screen that provides a backup screen, setting controls, etc. and is a radio with Sirius/XM built in and Car Play through my iPhone so I have the option of the MB built in navigation, Apple navigation, Google navigation and the many others through Car Play.

https://www.mbvans.com/en/technology

1) You drive with that all that stuff. Once stopped I think you would rarely use or need dash radio same as all your other vehicles and books and music can be through other sources like iPhones, iPads, smart TVs plugged in radios or equivalent. So, no, you really don't leave you ignition on.

2) I think it works off the Chassis battery what your manual says. Thor is not that sophisticated and usually is less cost than other Bs. There is a reason for that.

3) Radio turning off is probably a Promaster feature to keep the chassis battery from draining. You don't normally put the key in to turn on the ACC mode other than temporarily.

Personally, I am not about to mess with my MBUX system and you might want to think hard about messing with your dash radio getting help from a third party. You should put this question through Thor. Maybe once you get on the road and experience Class B RVing you will re-think your suppositions anyway as many have.

[Urlauber]

Originally Posted by mumkin

From my signature, you can see I have had 5 rigs: 1 Ford, 2 Chevys, and 2 Promasters. On all but one, the radio/sound system ran off the chassis battery as they came from the original manufacturer.

Thank you for sharing your experience I guess I was wrong when I expected the sound system to work while you're hanging out in the RV (not driving).

Originally Posted by mumkin

The LTV on the Chevy 3500 had an upgraded radio, which was also a DVD player and it ran off the house battery. But, the darn thing would turn itself on... and you would get in and the radio would be playing away. Luckily, since I lived near the LTV factory and they held my warranty rather than a dealer, I was going up to get the correct window coverings and they said they would fix it at the same time. They added a switch on the dash to turn the sound system off.

Dang, ghost in the machine. I talked to someone who mentioned they have a switch in the dashboard which connects the sound system to either the chassis or coach battery. Seems like the perfect solution.

Originally Posted by mumkin

One problem with switching out the head unit in a Promaster is that you lose the ability to communicate with the Promaster computer for lots of adjustments that are normally done through the uConnect.. like setting date/time, locking options, headlights and such.

Agreed, although the Kenwood unit is pretty nice otherwise. But the Aux input of the Promaster not working may be one of the side effects as you say.

[Urlauber]

Originally Posted by Davydd

1) You drive with that all that stuff. Once stopped I think you would rarely use or need dash radio same as all your other vehicles and books and music can be through other sources like iPhones, iPads, smart TVs plugged in radios or equivalent. So, no, you really don't leave you ignition on.

I think what you are missing here is that the dash radio is the only source of sound in the vehicle. Sure, you can plug some earphones into your head and listen to your ipad, but that doesn't broadcast any sound over speakers. Not sure what you mean by "smart TVs plugged in radios", and we don't have/want a TV, but usually TV speakers suck and you'd want to use the nice speakers to have decent sound.

Originally Posted by Davydd

2) I think it works off the Chassis battery what your manual says. Thor is not that sophisticated and usually is less cost than other Bs. There is a reason for that.

Not sure. It says the main switch (for the coach battery) has to be ON to listen to the dash sound system. Which is not the case. As you say I may need to talk to someone from Thor about that.

Originally Posted by Davydd

3) Radio turning off is probably a Promaster feature to keep the chassis battery from draining. You don't normally put the key in to turn on the ACC mode other than temporarily.

Maybe. Most newer vehicles I have driven/owned allow the radio to be turned on even if the ignition is off (may time out after 30 min or so, that's ok). Turning off after a minute or so is a bit harsh.

[avanti]

With older vehicles, hacking in a power-select switch isn't too hard. I did it with our 2005 Airstream Interstate.

Modern vehicles are much more challenging, for several reasons. For example, our 2014 Sprinter radio doesn't have a physical power switch. It is continuously powered from the chassis and it is turned "on" and "off" via CANbus commands. You could switch the power OK, but you would also have to somehow emulate the CANbus commands that normally come from a chassis ECM. This is complicated, since the CANbus implements various features, such as leaving the radio on until a door is opened. (I am not saying that your vehicle has this exact feature, but it very likely has analogous ones). Anything is possible, but this would be quite a science experiment. Far easier to simply add an aftermarket sound system in the coach. There are some nice ones that aren't very expensive.

[Urlauber]

Originally Posted by avanti

With older vehicles, hacking in a power-select switch isn't too hard. I did it with our 2005 Airstream Interstate.

Modern vehicles are much more challenging, for several reasons. For example, our 2014 Sprinter radio doesn't have a physical power switch. It is continuously powered from the chassis and it is turned "on" and "off" via CANbus commands. You could switch the power OK, but you would also have to somehow emulate the CANbus commands that normally come from a chassis ECM. This is complicated, since the CANbus implements various features, such as leaving the radio on until a door is opened. (I am not saying that your vehicle has this exact feature, but it very likely has analogous ones). Anything is possible, but this would be quite a science experiment.

That all sounds a bit discouraging.

Originally Posted by avanti

Far easier to simply add an aftermarket sound system in the coach. There are some nice ones that aren't very expensive.

That is a possibility, but I love simplicity and efficiency, so I don't like it much. I'd rather use what's there, but it seems like that will be difficult.
I'll definitely give Thor a call to see how they explain the discrepancy from the manual.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by Urlauber

That all sounds a bit discouraging.

I just noticed that you mentioned an aftermarket Kenwood head unit. My comments were mostly with respect to OEM units. It is possible that the situation may be less grim if you are dealing with aftermarket, since the integration may not go quite so deep. dunno.

[MsNomer]

"I think what you are missing here is that the dash radio is the only source of sound in the vehicle. Sure, you can plug some earphones into your head and listen to your ipad, but that doesn't broadcast any sound over speakers. "

Bluetooth from my iPhone. Sounds better than dash radio. Can be had for less than this list price.

https://www.bose.com/en_us/products/...nk_micro_black

[Jon in AZ]

I'll have to agree. We only use the dash-mounted unit when we are driving. For audio and video entertainment when parked, we always use our phones or tablet. Bluetooth speakers are great. The only reason I haven't ripped out the TV, antenna, and DVD player in ours is resale. So 20th century!

Honestly, we don't use any of it much. We travel to see what's outside the camper. Once in a while, we'll watch a movie on the tablet to pass the time on a wet, chilly evening. My wife likes to have tunes going while she's enjoying her morning coffee and journaling in the camper. I take my coffee and go for a walk, rain or shine.

[Urlauber]

First of all, thanks for all the replies and suggestions provided. I really appreciate the feedback from the more experienced folks.

All good points. Adding BT speakers or another audio unit isn't a big deal, but like I said, I love simplicity and efficiency, the dash radio is already there, the speakers are installed, and actually sound surprisingly full! The sofa in this unit converts to a bed, so laying there and listening to music "from above" is pretty nice. OF COURSE we go camping to enjoy the outdoors but having dinner inside on a cold/rainy day or just hanging out on the sofa can be part of the whole experience.

Anyway, I called Thor to confirm. I am positively surprised they have a real phone number with a real person who knows stuff and is willing to reach out to get answers. They confirmed that the dash radio is nowadays wired to the chassis battery, so only working with the ignition on.

Actually last night I tried something else - turned on the ignition, turned it off, but left the key in. It gave me about 10 or 15 min of radio time. I wonder if that can be programmed somewhere to extend out a bit, maybe an hour would be nice? Most of the cars I have driven recently allow turning the radio back on after the ignition was turned off.

I forgot to ask them about the orphaned Aux port, but I am pretty sure it is just not connected for whatever reason. Maybe one day I'll pull the unit and see what's behind there. No big deal, but I like using an old phone with a large SD card as a cheap android music/audiobook player, without going through BT.

[mumkin]

Originally Posted by Urlauber

Actually last night I tried something else - turned on the ignition, turned it off, but left the key in. It gave me about 10 or 15 min of radio time. I wonder if that can be programmed somewhere to extend out a bit, maybe an hour would be nice? Most of the cars I have driven recently allow turning the radio back on after the ignition was turned off.

There is a setting for this through the uConnect stock radio. I don't recall what the options were. Of course if it has been replaced, you can't do it.

[Timcd1st]

On the solar charger Thor does wire it to the coach side of the cutoff switch. On my friends Sequence it was just a matter of accessing the back of the switch and moving the solar controller wire from the coach side of the switch to the battery side of the switch so that the controller would provide charging to the coach batteries all the time. Since that modification he has had no problems.

[W9TR]

Originally Posted by Urlauber

Brand-new Thor 18M owner here... trying to find the way. Many different questions, most of them probably pretty

So... with that out of the way... Is it normal that

• the sound system only operates with the ignition turned on?
• the AUX port isn't part of the sources that can be chosen on the sound system (Kenwood DMX706 or such)?
• the main switch has to be *on* for the solar panel to charge the coach battery?

Owner of a Thor Tellaro here.
1. Yes - sound system is wired to chassis battery.

2. IDK - our van has a Pioneer stereo and the 1/8” aux input does not work with my iPod.

3. The main on/off switch is in the (+) lead of the battery feed. If your GoPower Solar controller shows a voltage above 12V when the main switch is OFF then your solar controller is wired correctly on the battery side of the main switch.

To put it another way, if your GoPower solar controller appears to work normally with the main switch off, then it is wired correctly and will charge the batteries with the main switch off.

If the GoPower controller throws a fault code with the main switch off then it is wired incorrectly to the load side of the main switch.

[Jon in AZ]

Originally Posted by W9TR

Owner of a Thor Tellaro here.
1. Yes - sound system is wired to chassis battery.

Yes, but will it operate with the key in the ACC position?

OP indicates his will only operate with the key in the ON position, which means you have to have the engine running. I have never owned a vehicle that required that.