Inverter vs Inverter/charger ?

Ken Allan · 12-13-2021, 07:40 PM

Our van with an EcoTek system had a 2000w inverter/charger/installed. It failed. After thinking through how we use this camper I'm not sure we even need an inverter as we use primarily DC. We still have the Nations/Balmar setup and I have a 20a Victron charger if we have shore power. The only AC appliance we "might" use would be the microwave oven (1045w draw). The air con was used with shore power only. I am still considering adding a straight 2000w inverter primarily for the microwave.

So... The failed inverter/charger weighed about 45#. It obviously had large transformer and a lot of copper inside. I see some (equivalent?) inverters spec around 10-12#. The inverter does not have a built-in charger nor transfer switch.

---Do these options alone weigh 30# ?
---What does all the extra weight of the inverter/charger buy me? More durability? A prolonged surge capability?

Please enlighten me. Thanks.

booster · 12-13-2021, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken Allan

Our van with an EcoTek system had a 2000w inverter/charger/installed. It failed. After thinking through how we use this camper I'm not sure we even need an inverter as we use primarily DC. We still have the Nations/Balmar setup and I have a 20a Victron charger if we have shore power. The only AC appliance we "might" use would be the microwave oven (1045w draw). The air con was used with shore power only. I am still considering adding a straight 2000w inverter primarily for the microwave.

So... The failed inverter/charger weighed about 45#. It obviously had large transformer and a lot of copper inside. I see some (equivalent?) inverters spec around 10-12#. The inverter does not have a built-in charger nor transfer switch.

---Do these options alone weigh 30# ?
---What does all the extra weight of the inverter/charger buy me? More durability? A prolonged surge capability?

Please enlighten me. Thanks.

You would need to decide if you can live without being able to charge batteries from shore power first and foremost. Otherwise you are going to have to run the van to do any major charging unless you are very low power user and have enough solar.

avanti · 12-13-2021, 08:41 PM

The weight difference is largely due to the fact that there are two different technologies for implementing inverters:
1) Traditional inverter designs use large (and heavy) low-frequency transformers.
2) Newer designs use fancy electronics to produce high frequency currents that can get away with much smaller magnetics.

Type 1 units have traditionally been considered more robust, but the electronic ones keep getting better. These days, I am not sure whether the choice between the two is compelling one way or the other.

You can get converter/inverters with either kind of inverter.

TomF · 12-13-2021, 09:25 PM

I have a xantrex inverter/charger that I use to maintain a battery backup system for my house. It is solid state, and weighs in the 10-12 pound range. It is designed to be used in boats, so is suitable for use in RV's.
The unit operates automatically. It charges the batteries in the proper stages from bulk through float, and then switches to inverter mode when the input AC current fails.

Ken Allan · 12-14-2021, 01:12 AM

..."there are two different technologies for implementing inverters"...

Thanks. I hadn't yet figured out what I should be googling for. And that was ---transformer vs transformerless inverters---. That will lead to a wealth of stories... some of which are even worth reading. Ha.

There does seem to be pros and cons of either but it does sound like the newer transformerless (TL) versions might be the future. Of concern was the mention that the TFs might pass thru some spikes or surges? I will need to investigate this a bit more.

Without the inverter we can still energize the AC panel with shore power. I have the stand-alone charger if needed. And we almost always drive every day. We are very low power users & primarily 12v. We were backpackers for over 40 years so some lights, running water, a toilet! and a small furnace to take off the chill is pure luxury.

markopolo · 12-14-2021, 02:46 PM

Google "low frequency vs high frequency inverter" for explanations of the differences. Low frequency units tend to handle both greater surge current and also handle the surge for longer period of time. That makes them well suited for reliably starting inductive loads. High frequency inverters are typically rated for resistive loads and you'd derate them for inductive loads.

Some high frequency inverters can handle greater surge current for longer time but not all of them. Read through the spec sheets to figure out which high frequency units can.

Davydd · 12-14-2021, 02:51 PM

You probably have a lot of battery power in that EcoTrek system I take it. Your van is designed for boondocking (off grid) and not only is the microwave not working but 120vac outlets, and maybe a coffee maker and any other 120vac appliance. I feel you might not enjoy off-grid camping that is getting more popular especially with Class Bs but if you do I think it is camping with one hand tied behind your back.

We have an Xantrex Freedom XC Pro 3000 inverter/charger installed to charge our lithium ion battery bank that weighs 18.6 lbs. There is a 2000W version that weighs 17.1 lbs. We had that installed specifically for weight saving reasons.

larrylwill · 12-19-2021, 06:18 PM

My inverter charger went south after a battery short. I added a high frequency inverter
with remote for $250, An AC auto switch for $34 and a 10 amp auto charger for $39. All fit into the same spot as the old inverter/charger/ac switch. The inverter is 2000/3000W pure sine wave. When plugged in the auto ac switch switches the coach to ac and turns on the charger. I have a 2019 Simplicity.

avanti · 12-19-2021, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davydd

We have an Xantrex Freedom XC Pro 3000 inverter/charger installed to charge our lithium ion battery bank that weighs 18.6 lbs. There is a 2000W version that weighs 17.1 lbs. We had that installed specifically for weight saving reasons.

Does your Xantrex Freedom have any problem starting your AC? If not, does the AC have a soft-start feature?

Davydd · 12-19-2021, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by avanti

Does your Xantrex Freedom have any problem starting your AC? If not, does the AC have a soft-start feature?

The air conditioner starts OK. As for the soft-start feature I haven't delved into if it has it or not.

This inverter/charger is not what ARV puts in normally. I suggested it and they said it was OK.

larrylwill · 12-19-2021, 07:17 PM

I only do boondocking and a 2000W inverter works fine. I just dont use the MW and coffie maker or toaster at the same time although 2 would work fine together, You can always start the engine for max power, just watch the watt output. I considered a 3000w but bought the 2000w, While I was at it I also added 280AMH of lifepo3 batteries.

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