Inexpensive way to stay warm while asleep this Winter ...

[avanti]

The main impetus for the upfitters to go to second engine alternators is that it permits them to have significant engine-sourced power systems while maintaining complete electrical isolation from the vehicle's electrical system.

At least in the case of the Sprinter, this is an absolute requirement for Mercedes certified upfitters. Mercedes has long forbidden upfitters from taking more than 40 amps directly from the Sprinter's aux power outputs. This didn't use to matter much, but due to the current generation of "intelligent" power management systems that modern vehicles have, it now matters very much and is enforced by MB.

I don't know anything about the other OEMs, but I imagine that the situation is similar.

[booster]

Originally Posted by avanti

The main impetus for the upfitters to go to second engine alternators is that it permits them to have significant engine-sourced power systems while maintaining complete electrical isolation from the vehicle's electrical system.

At least in the case of the Sprinter, this is an absolute requirement for Mercedes certified upfitters. Mercedes has long forbidden upfitters from taking more than 40 amps directly from the Sprinter's aux power outputs. This didn't use to matter much, but due to the current generation of "intelligent" power management systems that modern vehicles have, it now matters very much and is enforced by MB.

I don't know anything about the other OEMs, but I imagine that the situation is similar.

I haven't looked lately, and never did for all the models of vans used for B's, but I have seen some "adapter cords" sold that allege to adapt the factory alternator controls to work with bigger, or I would think parallel twin alternators. I don't know anyone who has used them, though, and I am sure the vehicle manufacturers would certainly not want them used, where they could control it.

[Davydd]

Auto starting or as Roadtrek referred to Voltstart actually built into the the Mercedes Benz electronics. I don't know anything about Promasters in that regard. I can start my engine from the key fob any time but MB limits you to 5 starts that way, but you can just key start the engine your engine and get another 5. Auto starting is just a fail safe way built in by the upfitter when the batteries get too low. With knowing management you quickly learn it is better to just drive your van periodically to get your batteries charged. Driving at speed quickly charges a days worth of battery use quicker than idling even at high idle. A second alternator (UHG) makes it quicker as it is not electronically choked at 40 amps as MB is. If you have a high amp hour battery bank a second alternator and driving is the best way to charge. It is not that difficult for B users as they are very active in moving around easily and depend on their Bs instead of towables like cars or trailers to do so. High ah battery packs and second alternators lessen the need for solar especially if your needs are four seasons when you don't have optimum sun for three seasons. It would be redundant to have an Onan generator and high ah battery packs coupled with an inverter can have all electric appliances so you can eliminate propane if you desire tapping your primary engine fuel source for heat and hot water boondocking. If you primarily seek shore power campgrounds these rather expensive desires diminish in need.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by booster

I haven't looked lately, and never did for all the models of vans used for B's, but I have seen some "adapter cords" sold that allege to adapt the factory alternator controls to work with bigger, or I would think parallel twin alternators. I don't know anyone who has used them, though, and I am sure the vehicle manufacturers would certainly not want them used, where they could control it.

Yes, the folks who install the earthquake-class audio systems in their vehicles use those things. I have seen FOUR(!) alternators in parallel in one case.

BUT, as far as I have seen, they all work on alternators that use traditional analog voltage regulation. Modern Sprinters, at least, use digital LIN-controlled alternators, in which the actual regulation is done by an ECU, and communicated to the alternator via the vehicle communications bus. I really doubt that anyone has hacked such systems. Makes much more sense to have a completely separate alternator if you have such a system.

[booster]

Originally Posted by avanti

Yes, the folks who install the earthquake-class audio systems in their vehicles use those things. I have seen FOUR(!) alternators in parallel in one case.

BUT, as far as I have seen, they all work on alternators that use traditional analog voltage regulation. Modern Sprinters, at least, use digital LIN-controlled alternators, in which the actual regulation is done by an ECU, and communicated to the alternator via the vehicle communications bus. I really doubt that anyone has hacked such systems. Makes much more sense to have a completely separate alternator if you have such a system.

I think they adapter cords are used to intentionally take the alternator to an internal regulator so the PCM can't limit or otherwise modify the output or voltage. If true, it may be that a remote regulator could also be used if the adapter cord doesn't need any internal feedback from the alternator to the PCM.


I agree that a standalone is more practical for a bigger system if you have vehicle computer limiting going on like MB does, but it would be nice for the users of smaller systems that would charge nicely on maybe 80-100 amps would have an option to use the existing alternator or a big replacement for it. I think some manufacturers have gotten the message and are providing on the van places where tapping higher power is allowed, as it just makes sense for any van that might have stuff added for conversion vans, class b's, or contractor/trade use.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by booster

I think some manufacturers have gotten the message and are providing on the van places where tapping higher power is allowed, as it just makes sense for any van that might have stuff added for conversion vans, class b's, or contractor/trade use.

Yes. As we discussed here:
https://www.classbforum.com/forums/f...tml#post113181
The Transit with the OEM dual alternator option apparently allows 175A.

[bwatters60]

We tried standard 120VAC electric blankets in our Roadtrek 08210P. Worked fine on shoreline or generator. But one night we were boondocking and decided to use the electric blankets. Turned the TrippLite to auto, flipped the Inverter switch to on, plugged in the electric blankets and within a minute or two we could smell something burning. The 120VAC electric blankets didn't like the modified sine wave output of the TrippLite (burnt up R17 in both electric blanket controllers)! So, I installed a couple of 12V receptacles in the rear of the coach and bought 12V electric blankets that draw about 3.7 amps. They work great and we no longer have to keep the TrippLite on. Happy wife, happy life!

[skier1950]

too much electromagnetic radiation for me

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by InterBlog

……………………………………….
-- A diesel-tapping heater of the type previously mentioned on this thread. Logically it can be argued that this would be the best option (and I personally believe so).
-- A micro-stove that accepts solid fuel. From a functional perspective, the amount of seasoned wood I have available on my property is infinite. The heating fuel is right there in front of me, if I could find a way to capitalize on it.
…………………………….

I would add gasoline as an option for space heating using either Webasto or Espar heaters.

Stove can be powered by diesel as well by a device which combines space heating and cooking. This is the marine unit - https://scanmarineusa.com/products/stoves/

In my van I have an Origo stove, a combination of an ethanol burner with 1200W electric heating coil. We used them on boats. There were 2 marine alcohol stove manufacturers, Origo from Sweden purchased by Dometic and killed, and Kenyon which no longer manufactures them. Current prices of used Origos and Kenyons are stratospheric, someone was selling Kenyon for $800 and an Origo alcohol container for $175, they used to be $25.

I can boil 18 gallons of cold water with 1 gal. of denaturized ethanol.

I like our stove; it is unfortunate that both alcohols stoves where purged from the market by inductive stoves and likely California restrictions. A lot of folks in the marine World still use them so prices for used units are insane.

[themexicandoctor]

Originally Posted by bwatters60

We tried standard 120VAC electric blankets in our Roadtrek 08210P. Worked fine on shoreline or generator. But one night we were boondocking and decided to use the electric blankets. Turned the TrippLite to auto, flipped the Inverter switch to on, plugged in the electric blankets and within a minute or two we could smell something burning. The 120VAC electric blankets didn't like the modified sine wave output of the TrippLite (burnt up R17 in both electric blanket controllers)! So, I installed a couple of 12V receptacles in the rear of the coach and bought 12V electric blankets that draw about 3.7 amps. They work great and we no longer have to keep the TrippLite on. Happy wife, happy life!

This is where Bedwetting could be the perfect storm.

Who makes the units you have that draw 3.7amps?

[themexicandoctor]

Originally Posted by skier1950

too much electromagnetic radiation for me

Great article.

They are leaving the door eide open for the results of further research...

https://www.who.int/peh-emf/about/Wh...en/index1.html

[wny-pat]

Originally Posted by AdamG

It's a gas system. Came installed on our 2020 "MAD" Promaster Legend RV.

You're probably not old enough to remember, but the old Chevy Corvairs had a gas heater. I live in upstate NY. You could park all night without the engine running and have plenty of heat in that little car

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by wny-pat

You're probably not old enough to remember, but the old Chevy Corvairs had a gas heater. I live in upstate NY. You could park all night without the engine running and have plenty of heat in that little car

My first new car was a 1966 Corvair. I paid about $2,000 for it while still in college.

[bwatters60]

Originally Posted by themexicandoctor

This is where Bedwetting could be the perfect storm.

Who makes the units you have that draw 3.7amps?

Can be purchased from AMZN:

https://www.amazon.com/Electric-Auto...-garden&sr=1-2

[themexicandoctor]

Originally Posted by bwatters60

Can be purchased from AMZN:

https://www.amazon.com/Electric-Auto...-garden&sr=1-2

These are really cheap - not much different from s product that Camping World carried for a couple of seasons & then pulled.

But i see they are back again for $19 not as sophisticated control wise as the $25 units on Amazon.

I do know that Electrowarmth have been in business making Bunk Warmers for trucks for a few years (since 1939) & they sell their units for $77 but in 2007 they were $112. There is a couple of reasons they are more expensive - safety, efficiency & durability.

Avanti - where did you purchase yours from?

[InterBlog]

Originally Posted by GeorgeRa

I would add gasoline as an option for space heating using either Webasto or Espar heaters.
....

How would gasoline be carried or integrated safely in a B with an unmodified body (no external compartments) and no under-chassis space? Enough gasoline to power a combustion heating device for 1 - 2 weeks?

As it stands, we have a tiny gas can on our hitch carrier (for our chain saw), plus the capacity to carry a larger Wavian in the same frame. But there's the issue of rear-end collision and what that would mean for either a gasoline container or an extra large bottle of propane. When we fill the small can, we either strap it up on the roof, or only fill it for the final 10 miles of the journey, so that we are not carrying a small bomb for the whole trip.

I realize that people do it with both gasoline and propane - they carry both on their tails. But I'm not sure I'd be comfortable with it.

[AdamG]

Originally Posted by InterBlog

How would gasoline be carried or integrated safely in a B with an unmodified body (no external compartments) and no under-chassis space? Enough gasoline to power a combustion heating device for 1 - 2 weeks?



As it stands, we have a tiny gas can on our hitch carrier (for our chain saw), plus the capacity to carry a larger Wavian in the same frame. But there's the issue of rear-end collision and what that would mean for either a gasoline container or an extra large bottle of propane. When we fill the small can, we either strap it up on the roof, or only fill it for the final 10 miles of the journey, so that we are not carrying a small bomb for the whole trip.



I realize that people do it with both gasoline and propane - they carry both on their tails. But I'm not sure I'd be comfortable with it.

The Webasto and Espar systems get connected directly to your main fuel tank. They can operate off gasoline or diesel (depending on model). Ours probably uses about a gallon a day in cold weather to heat....super efficient.

[MsNomer]

Last night, we boondocked at 19°F and 11,000 feet—too high for the Webasto. We have full windows all around and covered nothing. 37° in the van this morning. We have the Electrowarmth bunk warmer, but didn’t need it.

[mumkin]

WOW Msnomer, you have an amazing tolerance for cold. I would need it at 57. LOL

As to 12v blankets, the problem that I have seen is that the ones I have checked all warned against using them for hours... as in overnight. Perhaps these are the ones with no heat settings... just on/off.

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by InterBlog

How would gasoline be carried or integrated safely in a B with an unmodified body (no external compartments) and no under-chassis space? Enough gasoline to power a combustion heating device for 1 - 2 weeks?
……………………..

I was pointing using of gasoline directly from the vehicle fuel tank, likely there are more gasoline powered camper vans than diesel.
If you want to carry fuel for Webasto or Espar heaters I would to use kerosene in lieu of gasoline or diesel fuels with diesel powered units. Kerosene burns very clean, often used as a cleaner on diesel powered units, so practically no maintenance.

To see fuel consumption, see the table, kerosene numbers should be similar to diesel.

Some folks with electric cars use kerosene and Espar or Espar like heaters for heating with kerosene.