In-Depth RV Lithium Install & Wiring Film - Mike Mas

[IdleUp]

Regretfully “some users” are ultimately lost in the scope of lithium power for RV’s. The whole basis of a lithium battery system in an RV is for the sole purpose of additional “Off The Grid Time”.

The RV industry and its owners like myself, are not yet ready to rid the world of fossil fuel use since it provides a major asset in having an efficient lithium system by using both propane and diesel fuel for heating and refrigerator cooling.

Regretfully, the latest scam from RV manufactures of dumping “Cheap” household current consuming refrigerators on RV owners, has brainwashed thousands of owners to include some users here.
Through the use of propane in my system, it allows me to avoid the nightmares of parked high idle charging, or having to run my generator.

While compressor fridges have their place in 45 ft motorhomes with 3 AC units, 50 amp service which remain plugged in 95% of the time, they are the enemy of smaller “off the grid” RV’s. Their near constant current draw and their contribution to unwanted heat in the RV, make them unsuitable for RV use.

InterBlog, my apologies for not being more clear regarding my “switch comments”. It was directed solely to the “Wolfpack" who immediately attacked this thread, even before my first reply, and not meant to be inclusive of other users on this forum such as yourself. You have a very detailed system there - thanks for sharing!

[jharrell]

Hey IdleUp thanks for your post!

Originally Posted by IdleUp

Good Morning - We’re going in circles here as we did on last article, where these same six guys contradicted my last articles facts. Hopefully, you’ll remember you were all proven wrong. To refresh your memory, when I stated that up-fitters were no allowed to drill even one hole in the frame of a Mercedes and all called me a liar. The next day, I verified my comments to be 100% correct in a LTV video where my friend Dean in a factory tour, openly confirmed I was correct. I was also on the money regarding the limitation of only drawing 40 amps from the stock Mercedes alternator.

These where your claims:

Originally Posted by IdleUp

1) Up-fitters are "Not Permitted" to use the Mercedes engine for any lithium charging functions.

2) Up-fitters are "Not Permitted" to use any self-starting devices on the engine.

3) Up-fitters are "Not Permitted to use the engine for any stationary extended idling.

4) Up-fitters are "Not Permitted" to draw over 40 amps from the stock alternator.

I am glad to see you have retracted your #1 unsubstantiated claim that the Mercedes engine cannot be used to charge a lithium battery, glad to see you come around good work!

#2 and 3# are still unsubstantiated and not listed in the latest 2019 Body and Equipment Guidelines (BEG). I am eagerly awaiting the BEG addendum that will backup your claims! I am sure master upfitters that use self starters and high idle charging like the popular Advanced RV will be very interested as so they can discontinue production of those systems. Perhaps you can contact them and notify of your credentials and insider knowledge so they can get a head start!

Regarding #4 nobody disagreed and we tried to explain to you that it has nothing to do with lithium charging and is listed in the Body and Equipment Guidelines (BEG). You are patting yourself on the back for something everyone already knew, good work!

Regarding your claim that "up-fitters were no allowed to drill even one hole in the frame" is very odd, Mercedes has a BEG Addendum - MY2019 - Non-drilling/modification areas
That clearly shows drilling into the frame is ok if done correctly:

Sprinter drilling.JPG

[IdleUp]

Originally Posted by jharrell

Hey IdleUp thanks for your post!



These where your claims:



I am glad to see you have retracted your #1 unsubstantiated claim that the Mercedes engine cannot be used to charge a lithium battery, glad to see you come around good work!

#2 and 3# are still unsubstantiated and not listed in the latest 2019 Body and Equipment Guidelines (BEG). I am eagerly awaiting the BEG addendum that will backup your claims! I am sure Master Upfitters that use self starters and high idle charging like the popular Advanced RV will be very interested as so they can discontinue production of those systems. Perhaps you can contact them and notify of your credentials and insider knowledge so they can get a head start!

Regarding #4 nobody disagreed and we tried to explain to you that it has nothing to do with lithium charging and is listed in the Body and Equipment Guidelines (BEG). You are patting yourself on the back for something everyone already knew, good work!

Regarding your claim that "up-fitters were no allowed to drill even one hole in the frame" is very odd, Mercedes has a BEG Addendum - MY2019 - Non-drilling/modification areas
That clearly shows drilling into the frame is ok if done correctly:

Attachment 8294

Gee thanks for all you detailed information - but again all my statements concerning Mercedes are 100% correct and confirmed by corporate. Do you think its even conceivable that just maybe someone working with Mercedes like myself, would have information that you can't find on Google.

And if all that's not enough, there is a number of other new rules that will soon apply which I'm not yet allowed to share. It's starnge, I don't recall any of these points being covered in my video.

Do you really think I'm just going to make up all this stuff - Any other questions?

Mike

[jharrell]

Originally Posted by IdleUp

Gee thanks for all you detailed information - but again all my statements concerning Mercedes are 100% correct and confirmed by corporate. Do you think its even conceivable that just maybe someone working with Mercedes like myself, would have information that you can't find on Google.

And if all that's not enough, there is a number of other new rules that will soon apply which I'm not yet allowed to share yet. It's funny, I don't remember any of this points being covered in my video.

Do you really think I'm just going to make up all this stuff - Any other questions?

Mike

Thanks for your reply!

I did not realize the official Mercedes https://www.upfitterportal.com/en-us/ was Google and is not actually the official corporate portal for upfitters to reference! Very interesting!

You seem to have some amazing insider contacts, I can't wait for it to be shared through public channels! Its has been 6 months so far and not a single public release of the information yet! Very exciting!

I even contacted the popular master upfitter Advanced RV directly and asked about discontinuation of auto-start and idle charging this was thier response:

Thank you for your question jharrell. We are a Mercedes Master Upfitter. We have not gotten this message from Mercedes. Our battery system will remain the same.

You seem to know something even they do not!

[booster]

Originally Posted by IdleUp

Do you really think I'm just going to make up all this stuff - Any other questions?

Mike

Mom always told us to "never ask questions you don't want to hear the answers to".

[Bud]

Originally Posted by booster

Mom always told us to "never ask questions you don't want to hear the answers to".

That is almost as good as your RV drag racing post, could not stop laughing.

Bud

[Davydd]

I didn't know if I wanted to get into this conversation again but here goes...

The only response from my initial post was:

IdleUp: "David regretfully, you can’t begin to compare your 800 ah to mine.
In the real world - I’ll be out for a weeks longer than you, since unlike your coach, I don't have your constant draw of 12 & 110 volt appliances like you do."

That's a pretty snarky comment. 800ah is 800ah and I think ARV has a more sophisticated lithium system than you presented and in fact they offer three different for one's needs--my first, but now improved over 5 years, LifePo4 system, a Valence LifeMgPo4 system that can withstand temperatures to -40F (same as AGMs) and the 48V 13.5kWh Volta Power systems.

You didn't address why you need propane with 800ah other than you imply its use was reserved for air conditioning of which I know you cannot get through a night or day with your system and if you deplete your batteries you then have to run your Onan generator for more than 5 hours just to replenish and you would have to optionally drive for 19 hours off the 40a max MB alternator. You might have just used 200ah of AGM batteries for what you accomplished.

You didn't address why I have 800ah of lithium so I can use my campervan transparently with all electrical systems available--all 110v outlets, microwave, convection oven, Instant Pot, Keurig coffee maker, induction cooktop and other home 110v appliances whether I am on shore power or boondocking in the remotest places. My compressor 6.8 cf two-door refrigerator and freezer performs better than any absorption refrigerator available. I don't have to level or turn off the propane while fueling. That's luxury I enjoy. I also have a built in internet system, cellular system and sophisticated audio system which I am sure uses power.

I seldom have to worry about my battery usage for up to three days. I don't have to decide where I camp and whether a generator can be used. Most campgrounds I frequent don't allow generator use and if so restrict the hours you can use a generator. In boondocking situations like in BLM lands where the quiet of nature is paramount your generator use would rile up other campers nearby.

Now for your high-idle comments, you are way out of date and shows your lack of camping experience. To a "T" I know many 800ah lithium users with second alternators and they don't run their engines while camping. They drive to charge their batteries. It could be incidental driving to a trail head, a restaurant, to get groceries, etc. I have a log of my idle use and it is a little over 20 hours in 5 years and well over 600 days camping. Most of that is demonstrating or testing. Your Onan generator would have to be run about 60 hours just for maintenance in that 5 years.

15 minutes of driving or engine idling with the second alternator would replenish a day's solar power system that you can get in a van in the best situation. That's why my next van on order will not have solar. I've learned a lot about lithium batteries from 5 years of use and over 84,000 miles of driving in all climates. Since I make it a habit of following the proverbial 70 degrees in my travels and mostly in the fall, spring and some winter, and seek elevation, or northwoods climes in the summer. I seldom use air conditioning. I went to Alaska and back in July and August and never used air conditioning.

There is no mention by you of cold climate use. I have documented that I have boondocked a week straight in temperatures below freezing 24/7 and I have woke up to -15 deg. F well below the -4 degrees F allowed. How do you address cold climates? Is your Wonder storage area climate controlled so you can use and charge your batteries below freezing?

Come back in 5 years and then tell use about your system.

[GallenH]

IdleUp: The benefit of this forum is that its members share information to help each other. Interblog has an extensive description of her system with diagrams to illustrate her work in detail. hbn7hj and booster spent over a year developing a hybrid system; bench testing, road testing and documenting each stage. rowiebowie just completed a lithium conversion with an extensive discussion.

Seeing your installation is interesting, granted. But you haven't really shared with us the details that we're often looking for. You were asked several times (not in any heated manner) for a listing of the items in your system and their costs. I suggested that you post a schematic. But you have not responded to these posts at all. I don't understand why an individual, eager to share what they've just done and post it on this forum, wouldn't be eager to share specific details when asked. Perhaps you could address that.

[IdleUp]

Originally Posted by Davydd

I didn't know if I wanted to get into this conversation again but here goes...

There is no mention by you of cold climate use. I have documented that I have boondocked a week straight in temperatures below freezing 24/7 and I have woke up to -15 deg. F well below the -4 degrees F allowed. How do you address cold climates? Is your Wonder storage area climate controlled so you can use and charge your batteries below freezing?

Come back in 5 years and then tell use about your system.

Yes it is!

Booster do me a “Giant” favor please watch the film again, except unlike the last time you viewed it to only find "Fault" this time look at the film for its content, as it will explain the distinct advantage of my system over yours and others. I firmly believe it to be the most advanced lithium systems in any RV today.

The reason I know you never really watched the film, is your question on winter use, because there is a detailed segment which explains my own heating system plus summer cooling of the battery compartment!

As I stated before there is world of difference between your system and mine when it comes to off the grid usage. Unlike your RV where you have to carbon up your engine idling to put back lost amperage because the manufacture kept your expensive 3 way fridge (and generator) mine has the distinct advantage of only drawing 1/4 of an amp to operate.

Regarding high idle charging - enjoy yours because auto-starts systems and high idle charging will soon be a thing of the past! These plus many other implications such as restriction of the engine based on the immediate condition (soot level) of the DPF.

I have a sent in a request to my contact at Mercedes to obtain consent to release this information in writing if they feel its appropriate!

Regards - Mike Mas

PS I included an image below which shows the heater which you missed.

[Bud]

Originally Posted by IdleUp

Yes it is!

Booster do me a “Giant” favor please watch the film again, except unlike the last time you viewed it to only find "Fault" this time look at the film for its content, as it will explain the distinct advantage of my system over yours and others. I firmly believe it to be the most advanced lithium systems in any RV today.

The reason I know you never really watched the film, is your question on winter use, because there is a detailed segment which explains my own heating system plus summer cooling of the battery compartment!

As I stated before there is world of difference between your system and mine when it comes to off the grid usage. Unlike your RV where you have to carbon up your engine idling to put back lost amperage because the manufacture kept your expensive 3 way fridge (and generator) mine has the distinct advantage of only drawing 1/4 of an amp to operate.

Regarding high idle charging - enjoy yours because auto-starts systems and high idle charging will soon be a thing of the past! These plus many other implications such as restriction of the engine based on the immediate condition (soot level) of the DPF.

I have a sent in a request to my contact at Mercedes to obtain consent to release this information in writing if they feel its appropriate!

Regards - Mike Mas

PS I included an image below which shows the heater which you missed.

Mike, you have replied to David's post, not booster. But:

Neither David or booster or have an absorption refer or generator.

Neither David or booster have to start the van's engine to charge the batteries, rather they GET TO as you can't use the engine, you GET TO listen to a LOUD ONAN.

Now you are going to tell us that your post above is 1000% accurate.

Bud

[IdleUp]

I understand there has be a number of request regarding my equipment, its cost and availability. While I would be more than thrilled to share this information and links, I have not done so because the moderator Avanti has warned me repeatedly about posting links.

Therefore that is my answer and response concerning this matter.

Mike

[booster]

I believe you on the heaters, why did a take a week to answer the question?


Endless self aggrandizing and zooming videos make me zone out, sorry about that.


Of course our systems are different, unless you are referring to davydd, as we have 440ah of AGM on Chevy chassis. Two high output alternators in parallel that also run the starting side, 300 watts solar, propane hot water and heat, Magnum MS2000 inverter charger, no generator. Gas engine, so if we choose to we could idle forever without issue, but we don't.


31 gallons of fuel so can stay off grid as long as it lasts to drive and generate power. The Wonder has a 13 gallon LP tank, so you will get low 20s hours of generator time, which is your only relatively high rate charging source.


Different methods for different folks, as has been mentioned by many here, and is absolutely true. It is just that most here accept the each has their own preferences, and no system is the end all in any category, be it AGM, wet cell or lithium, with or without generator, with or without compressor frig (what class b maker is using 110v home frigs that use high power and cost 25% of a 3 way).


Essentially all of our systems have been explained in detail, questioned and answered, and fully explained as to why they are designed and used the way they are. That is what this forum is all about, not trying to generate and ever worshipping following.

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by booster

25% OF the cost of a propane frig, so approaching the cost of a dorm frig.

Indeed, he wrote of 25% of the cost of propane fridge, my mistake. This thread is likely coming to its self-inflicted end.

[hbn7hj]

An observation.
Interblog came on this forum several years ago saying look what I have done. We were all impressed and she shared the details.

IdleUp signs on saying I’m smarter than you, I know more than you, you cannot buy my components, which he later contradicts, and posts a video ostensibly to prove it.

It would have helped had we judged his system as superior, at twice the cost. No doubt it works for him to charge his drones. It would need to be modified for me.

I will agree with Interblog that he gets an F for packaging. Surely there is someplace in that large RV to hide the system.

[IdleUp]

Originally Posted by booster

I believe you on the heaters, why did a take a week to answer the question?


Endless self aggrandizing and zooming videos make me zone out, sorry about that.


Of course our systems are different, unless you are referring to davydd, as we have 440ah of AGM on Chevy chassis. Two high output alternators in parallel that also run the starting side, 300 watts solar, propane hot water and heat, Magnum MS2000 inverter charger, no generator. Gas engine, so if we choose to we could idle forever without issue, but we don't.


31 gallons of fuel so can stay off grid as long as it lasts to drive and generate power. The Wonder has a 13 gallon LP tank, so you will get low 20s hours of generator time, which is your only relatively high rate charging source.


Different methods for different folks, as has been mentioned by many here, and is absolutely true. It is just that most here accept the each has their own preferences, and no system is the end all in any category, be it AGM, wet cell or lithium, with or without generator, with or without compressor frig (what class b maker is using 110v home frigs that use high power and cost 25% of a 3 way).


Essentially all of our systems have been explained in detail, questioned and answered, and fully explained as to why they are designed and used the way they are. That is what this forum is all about, not trying to generate and ever worshipping following.

It's Ok Booster we all make mistakes . . . Sorry my film does not agree to your expert opinion of film production. I'm sure you more into the "Full Face " selfie movies where the guy talks for 30 minutes about lithium while you only see his face!

Could be this is the first profession piece you've seen on Lithium. Think?

Mike

[Davydd]

OK, I have said my position and he ignored it and how he can replenish batteries after 6-8 hours of air conditioning (his video). He has to run an Onan generator for at least 5 hours or drive 19 hours minimum.

If that is a 600w marine bilge heater I am afraid he could not manage the cold weather conditions I've encountered in my travels and of course it is an inefficient way of heating to heat the whole compartment. Read the Xtreme Heater compartment heater literature. It is probably good for down to 20F. to bring lithium batteries up to a minimum optimum of 40F at best. I have 10w total 12V heating pads to keep my batteries above 40F when temps drop to -20F.

I contend with the way he intends to camp he can accomplish it with about 200ah of AGM batteries and his solar array if he eschews electrical amenities for propane and doesn't have to run air conditioning. If he runs air conditioning then read the first paragraph again.

[IdleUp]

Originally Posted by hbn7hj

An observation.
Interblog came on this forum several years ago saying look what I have done. We were all impressed and she shared the details.

IdleUp signs on saying I’m smarter than you, I know more than you, you cannot buy my components, which he later contradicts, and posts a video ostensibly to prove it.

It would have helped had we judged his system as superior, at twice the cost. No doubt it works for him to charge his drones. It would need to be modified for me.

I will agree with Interblog that he gets an F for packaging. Surely there is someplace in that large RV to hide the system.

Thanks so much for your observations but regretfully they are all wrong!

1) First off - I was attacked numerous time before I even had the opportunity to post my first reply. Don’t take my word for it, the post are there for everyone to see!

2) Never said the components were not available and I had all intentions to share links and prices until Avanti warned me not to post a commercial link.

3) LOL What would ever make you think that I would need your or others judgment on my production. The film easily qualifies as the most professional film on Youtube regarding a lithium installation.

4) Lastly, I purposely designed my system for "Visuals" which is why its professionally designed to be exposed. Why would anyone want to hide all this beautiful equipment and workmanship.

Any more observations ?

Thanks - Mike

[hbn7hj]

2) Never said the components were not available and I had all intentions to share links and prices until Avanti warned me not to post a commercial link.

“Regretfully, you would not be able to purchase my equipment since its OEM and only available to licensed jobbers and manufactures, however there are plenty of other options available from other vendors.“

Don’t have to share links just component names. Don’t forget that schematic.

[GallenH]

Originally Posted by IdleUp

I understand there has be a number of request regarding my equipment, its cost and availability. While I would be more than thrilled to share this information and links, I have not done so because the moderator Avanti has warned me repeatedly about posting links.

Therefore that is my answer and response concerning this matter.

Mike

Sorry but if that is your response, it's a poor one. No one asked for links to the equipment. What was requested was a simple list of all components and their cost. That request does NOT require links. It's just a list. You also didn't address my request regarding a schematic. So your response IS a really "no, I don't want to share this information." Why not? As I pointed out in my post, that IS the purpose of this forum. Why are you here if you don't want to share?

[Bud]

Originally Posted by GallenH

Sorry but if that is your response, it's a poor one. No one asked for links to the equipment. What was requested was a simple list of all components and their cost. That request does NOT require links. It's just a list. You also didn't address my request regarding a schematic. So your response IS a really "no, I don't want to share this information." Why not? As I pointed out in my post, that IS the purpose of this forum. Why are you here if you don't want to share?

Is it really that much different than what Coachmen uses? Oh, but without a quiet generator compared to a LOUD ONAN.

Who really needs it? Glad you asked though.

Bud