Hymer Sonne, 65.5k

[BBQ]

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Ok, it is called Sunlight, but it has no solar.

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by dev13steph

Mine has 200 lithium and under hood generator. Was told it will run AC for 1 to 2 hours. Lithium packs will recharge much faster than AGM. Time will tell once I get a chance to fully try the system out.

The underhood generator will support the AC until you run out of gas. But without generator support the 200ah lithium battery will not provide more than about 45 minutes before the BMS shuts the battery down. The actual run time is dependent on the temp set of the AC and outside temperature. But there is no way in the world you will get more than one hour of AC support with 200ah.

[mumkin]

I agree... about an hour max with the Eco 200...

[dev13steph]

Originally Posted by cruising7388

The underhood generator will support the AC until you run out of gas. But without generator support the 200ah lithium battery will not provide more than about 45 minutes before the BMS shuts the battery down. The actual run time is dependent on the temp set of the AC and outside temperature. But there is no way in the world you will get more than one hour of AC support with 200ah.

I will never need 1 continuous hour of AC running where I live and where I'll camp. Given the small size of the rig, I'm not sure anyone would be comfy with air running full tilt for an hour. Not necessary.

Running intermittently through the night until things cool naturally after midnight or so will be nice. We'll see how it functions soon enough!

During the day as you mention is no issue to run the engine at idle to keep up and recharge the pack. Just late evening is the main requirement of the lithium cell.

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by dev13steph

During the day as you mention is no issue to run the engine at idle to keep up and recharge the pack. Just late evening is the main requirement of the lithium cell.

While running the AC with the engine on, you will not deplete the battery. It coasts. But with the engine off and the AC on, at the point of battery depletion that shuts itself and the AC down, firing up the engine will restore AC operation but the underhood generator doesn't have sufficient amperage delivery to both run the AC and simultaneously provide the charge rate the battery is designed to accept. It will recharge, but not very quickly. To provide the engine-off intermittent AC nighttime operation you envisage, you really need 400ah.

[DCHitt]

Originally Posted by cruising7388

While running the AC with the engine on, you will not deplete the battery. It coasts. But with the engine off and the AC on, at the point of battery depletion that shuts itself and the AC down, firing up the engine will restore AC operation but the underhood generator doesn't have sufficient amperage delivery to both run the AC and simultaneously provide the charge rate the battery is designed to accept. It will recharge, but not very quickly. To provide the engine-off intermittent AC nighttime operation you envisage, you really need 400ah.

When you are running the engine to recharge the battery you should be using the dash AC not the roof AC. That would change the equation.

[dev13steph]

Originally Posted by cruising7388

While running the AC with the engine on, you will not deplete the battery. It coasts. But with the engine off and the AC on, at the point of battery depletion that shuts itself and the AC down, firing up the engine will restore AC operation but the underhood generator doesn't have sufficient amperage delivery to both run the AC and simultaneously provide the charge rate the battery is designed to accept. It will recharge, but not very quickly. To provide the engine-off intermittent AC nighttime operation you envisage, you really need 400ah.

So you own a Sunlight V1 with the 200 eco and have tested it personally?

Temp settings and use varies quite a bit by person.

Watch the Hymer/Road trek eco battery videos and their function. Their system is designed to run high demand longer than AGM at equal amp hour ratings. They can also take a charge much much faster than lead acid. It's a system, not just a lithium 12v battery swapped for the AGM.

[booster]

Originally Posted by dev13steph

I will never need 1 continuous hour of AC running where I live and where I'll camp. Given the small size of the rig, I'm not sure anyone would be comfy with air running full tilt for an hour. Not necessary.

Running intermittently through the night until things cool naturally after midnight or so will be nice. We'll see how it functions soon enough!

During the day as you mention is no issue to run the engine at idle to keep up and recharge the pack. Just late evening is the main requirement of the lithium cell.

I think that all the folks that are counting on running the engine regularly to recharge batteries need to keep in mind that there are getting to be more rules about idling in campgrounds, and elsewhere. We have been surprised how many campgrounds, state, county, national, are starting to include engine running in the generator hours, and many are now creating no generator areas and including no idling. Our last longer trip east found lots of this type of rules, which we really liked. It sucks being in a no electricity campground and having all the generators running all day, or even worse the big diesel pickups on fast idle.

Even where there are not rules, everyone needs to use discretion in choosing when to run the engine. Your neighbors may not appreciate the van starting 5+ times a night while they are sleeping with the windows open, or in a tent.

[mumkin]

Originally Posted by dev13steph

Watch the Hymer/Road trek eco battery videos and their function. Their system is designed to run high demand longer than AGM at equal amp hour ratings. They can also take a charge much much faster than lead acid. It's a system, not just a lithium 12v battery swapped for the AGM.

I suggest that you join the Roadtrek/Hymer owner Facebook pages where there are many people who have used the EcoTreks. Few have Eco 200 because it has been found that it doesn't meet the needs of the majority of the buyers.

Lots of varying experiences... many having issues, but it is getting better than it was a year ago when I had Roadtrek replace my Eco200 with AGMs because they couldn't get them to work... at all.

Be careful with the Roadtrek's videos that tend to oversell the system.

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by dev13steph

So you own a Sunlight V1 with the 200 eco and have tested it personally?

Temp settings and use varies quite a bit by person.

Watch the Hymer/Road trek eco battery videos and their function. Their system is designed to run high demand longer than AGM at equal amp hour ratings. They can also take a charge much much faster than lead acid. It's a system, not just a lithium 12v battery swapped for the AGM.

Son, I don't gotta read no steeenking videos. I run a Roadtrek with four 200ah lithiums and know from experience how long a single 200ah will support an AC.

So please, do yourself a favor by taking up pencil and paper and doing the math.

BTW, there isn't a gun with a barrel big enough to make me own a Sunlight V1. I'm not disposed to participating in a race to the bottom.

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by DCHitt

When you are running the engine to recharge the battery you should be using the dash AC not the roof AC. That would change the equation.

Sure, it certainly would change the equation by pushing up the battery recharge rate but the tradeoff is that the dash AC is producing only a fraction of the AC cooling delivery. But if that's enough, it is the way to go.

[dev13steph]

Originally Posted by cruising7388

Son, I don't gotta read no steeenking videos. I run a Roadtrek with four 200ah lithiums and know from experience how long a single 200ah will support an AC.

So please, do yourself a favor by taking up pencil and paper and doing the math.

BTW, there isn't a gun with a barrel big enough to make me own a Sunlight V1. I'm not disposed to participating in a race to the bottom.

Great forum here. You guys are great. Keep on hating. I'll be out living the good life! See ya

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by dev13steph

Great forum here. You guys are great. Keep on hating. I'll be out living the good life! See ya

Hating? The only thing I hate are glib sales pitches and videos that intentionally deceive unsuspecting prospective customers regarding the real world capability and limitations of their product.

[rockymtnb]

Originally Posted by dev13steph

Great forum here. You guys are great. Keep on hating. I'll be out living the good life! See ya

You will probably get the last laugh over the rest of us anyway, since basic models such as the Sunlight V1 generally retain better resale value, at least in percentage terms, than fancier units.

[booster]

Originally Posted by DCHitt

When you are running the engine to recharge the battery you should be using the dash AC not the roof AC. That would change the equation.

While I am a supporter of using the dash air instead of an engine generator/inverter/AC setup, I am not sure how good an idea it would be to charge at a high rate at the same time. I think overheating issues would be the most likely short term issue, as the idling cooling system was never designed to run the dash AC and something like 7hp into the charging. The other thing that comes to mind is that you could also be putting some good sized loads on the front main bearing of the engine, that it isn't designed to handle, but the issue would only show up much later.

[cjscott123]

OMG this is the best Hymer can do is copy Winnebago's Travato's? First they do one similar to the 59G, and now the best they can do is a twin of the 59K with this new Sunlight? GET WITH IT HYMER. What is it that the Hymer's and all the other European models do so well, they have large garages. That's what we have been patiently hoping for, but NOOO they just continue to copy the American models. Very disappointed in the lack of imagination to just copy Winnebago's 59K with the new Sunlight V1. When they start bringing in the ones like they have in Europe that utilize small spaces to the utmost, with large garages (done by raising the bed), etc. etc. I may trade my B for one. They need solar, and they also need to have larger tanks. What do people with B's do, they boondock. Sorry big fail for lack of imagination. I mean come on, that's what they're known for, stop selling out. I really liked the Activ when I saw in in Hershey as far as looks goes and the quality of the seats inside, etc., but until they give me ones similar to the ones they sell in Europe, it's a big fail. You want to just copy those models, great, but you need to have the ones YOU ARE REALLY KNOWN FOR with the large pass through garage storage. We had such big hopes, very disappointed.

[mumkin]

Actually you are incorrect. The Hymer Activ is based on a model that they have built in Europe for many years and Winnebago copied them with the Travato front dinette.

I haven't researched enough to know if Winnebago copied all both floor plans from Hymer. But... it wouldn't surprise me. Over the last few years I have watched Winnebago copy numerous floor plans from other manufacturers for their Class Bs. They were rather late entering the Class B market.

Not to mention that nowhere near all B owners are boondockers.

[gregmchugh]

Most of the small Hymer models with large underbed garage storage are Class C models built on a cutaway chassis. Hymer is initially focusing on Class B and camping trailers over here. Maybe the next step will be the small Class Cs which have very little competion over here, especially with the large underbed storage. If they can get to the point where the Class B models are being done right then it might be time to move into the Class C models...

[cjscott123]

Originally Posted by mumkin

Actually you are incorrect. The Hymer Activ is based on a model that they have built in Europe for many years and Winnebago copied them with the Travato front dinette.

I haven't researched enough to know if Winnebago copied all both floor plans from Hymer. But... it wouldn't surprise me. Over the last few years I have watched Winnebago copy numerous floor plans from other manufacturers for their Class Bs. They were rather late entering the Class B market.

Not to mention that nowhere near all B owners are boondockers.

You are totally completing missing the point. Yes Winnebago copied the dinette area in it but the Hymer's and other European models are known for the large garages they have. Instead of bringing those types here, Roadtrek is playing it safe sticking with the American type models just trying to compete with Winnebago Travato's, and that is OBVIOUSLY what they are doing. That is my point. Most all the RV companies are doing this, copying each other's layout, it changes with the years and they all are doing the same layouts. And I am a Class B owner, and I boondock, and many Class B owners like to boondock. Or they go to State Parks where there is limited hookups, etc. So you are incorrect, the State Park Campground in Florida was stock full of class B motorhomes. Felt right at home. I just came back from a 3 week trip out, I boondocked, I went into state park and I went into Fort Wilderness campground in Orlando. We B owners like the options. European companies get it right with knowing how to utilize small spaces much better than ANY American company IMO. Roadtrek is totally off with this. If they brought those type models with the large garages which is the majority of Hymer's, and other European types in this range I would trade my Era in a heartbeat. Do I think there is a market for what they are doing, yes, but they are selling out and not bringing what they and other European models are best known for. The large garage is an untapped market in the United States, and the irony is a good majority of the European models do this. We also need solar, and Roadtrek gets it right with the way they set up their Class B's being able to boondock. The combination of Hymer and Roadtrek could bring some great models here instead of just trying to compete with Winnebago's. It will be very disappointing to many if they just play it safe, and go along with everyone else and not bring us what they are known for, the large garages, it is an untapped market, and is extremely popular in Europe and there is a reason for this bc it's a great idea and many people like it.

[cjscott123]

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

Most of the small Hymer models with large underbed garage storage are Class C models built on a cutaway chassis. Hymer is initially focusing on Class B and camping trailers over here. Maybe the next step will be the small Class Cs which have very little competion over here, especially with the large underbed storage. If they can get to the point where the Class B models are being done right then it might be time to move into the Class C models...

Yes, and I am excited for Roadtrek/Hymer. Many people that know Hymer and the other European ones similar, have HIGH HOPES for that type of unit, with the large garage and it is an untapped market, there is no competition for it, so I don't understand why they wouldn't do this immediately, not just make ones to compete with Winnebago's. I agree also that they have to get their B right. I really liked the Aktiv when I saw it, it is a sharp looking unit, nice being small, and I liked the dinette better than the one Winnebago does in the Travato, which is really awkward with the table and uncomfortable to sit on. My disappointment is that they are not going to bring the ones that they are best known for with the large garage.