Hymer new Lithium/AGM combo

[Boxster1971]

Originally Posted by JohnnyFry

It didn’t work either...404 error

It worked once when I first posted it. Must be something strange with PDF files on the Hymer web server. Go to this source page and download the PDF press document.
https://www.hymer.com/en/hymer-press...nd-co.-kg.html


- - Mike
2012 Sprinter 3500 Extended converted B-Van by Airstream

[Bud]

Originally Posted by Boxster1971

It worked once when I first posted it. Must be something strange with PDF files on the Hymer web server. Go to this source page and download the PDF press document.
https://www.hymer.com/en/hymer-press...nd-co.-kg.html


- - Mike
2012 Sprinter 3500 Extended converted B-Van by Airstream

Not sure that us politicians can spin a story that well.

Bud

[GeorgeRa]

I received the instruction manual for the Powersaver B>B charger from Hong Kong, but no source nor price in NA yet. Waiting for more info. Should be less than Kisae line. Unit is small 10.25" x 5.51" x 3.15".
Powersaver Technologics Limited - Your Power Solution Partner

[hbn7hj]

Originally Posted by GeorgeRa

I received the instruction manual for the Powersaver B>B charger from Hong Kong, but no source nor price in NA yet. Waiting for more info. Should be less than Kisae line. Unit is small 10.25" x 5.51" x 3.15".
Powersaver Technologics Limited - Your Power Solution Partner

Amazing what you guys find!

[Technomadness]

I don’t understand how AGM batteries that they say last three years in one scenario suddenly last ten years in the second. Unless that time is only for the coach batteries. And if they are making a lithium system, let’s hope they are inside the unit so they can stay warm in those bitter German winters.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Davydd]

Inside implies keeping your B conditioned and warm 24/7. Good luck with that idea.

[booster]

Originally Posted by hbn7hj

Amazing what you guys find!

I think I lost track, here. Was this intended to go into the other hybrid battery thread where we were just discussing B to B chargers? I don't see any B to B references in this thread.

[booster]

Originally Posted by Technomadness

I don’t understand how AGM batteries that they say last three years in one scenario suddenly last ten years in the second. Unless that time is only for the coach batteries. And if they are making a lithium system, let’s hope they are inside the unit so they can stay warm in those bitter German winters.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This discussion puts out some of the possibilities we think might be contributing to longer AGM life, particularly under chronic undercharging use patterns.

http://www.classbforum.com/forums/f2...ymer-7383.html

In the Hymer system, the lithium is the largest battery, and it will be depleted and cycled first due to voltage differences, so Hymer is counting on the AGM seeing less cycles actually put on it, with the AGM being basically reserve capacity. I think that whether the AGM really will last longer would still be up for grabs, though, because we don't know what they are using for charging equipment and control and overcharging all the time can also shorten the lifespan of AGMs.

[hbn7hj]

Originally Posted by Davydd

Inside implies keeping your B conditioned and warm 24/7. Good luck with that idea.

Don't know about Hymer (how easy is it to remove?) but our thought is to remove the lithium and bring it indoors when the van is in storage. The AGM should be able to handle most any temperature.

[booster]

Originally Posted by hbn7hj

Don't know about Hymer (how easy is it to remove?) but our thought is to remove the lithium and bring it indoors when the van is in storage. The AGM should be able to handle most any temperature.

I do think that we are on the wrong thread as it was on the other that were talking about removing the smaller than the AGM lithium battery.

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by booster

I think I lost track, here. Was this intended to go into the other hybrid battery thread where we were just discussing B to B chargers? I don't see any B to B references in this thread.

This is really not directly related to the combo project but it could be useful. I am looking for a way to limit amperage swings as I am charging my AGMs from the alternator with batteries at low SOC, so really this B>B is for my need, but there is possible application for Li/AGM combo.

There are 2 potential issues with this combo:
1. Charging Li from alternator directly could be problematic
2. Charging AGM from Li could be problematic due to insufficient voltage

So here comes this B to B opportunity which would require some smart rewiring with relays. With Powersaver B-B Li is completely isolated from main power.

For driving:
Alternator > B-B > Li
Alternator > AGM

After driving
Li > B-B > AGM

Big issue would be the need to reset the DIP switches but if price is right having 2 units would solve it potentially moving the project to ARV territory cost wise.

Just the Internet brain fart, cheers.

[booster]

I guess that is where I got confused, as it would be fine in other thread about using the system differently, and this one is on the factory Hymer system.

Anyhoo, you can limit the amperage to your AGMs or lithium from the alternator with a B to B successfully, I think, I looked at it extensively. The only hard part is their profiles will often leave the AGMs less than full and they don't have a method of locking them into absorption. If they have a lithium setting that is untimed you would be OK and it would limit to the capacity of the B to B.

You can also use a Balmar on the alternator to do it as long as you don't need to go under 50% of alternator capacity. You can get on fixed setting of 50% reduction and another setting that can be changed in the range of 50-100%. They can be toggle switch controlled.

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by booster

I guess that is where I got confused, as it would be fine in other thread about using the system differently, and this one is on the factory Hymer system.

Anyhoo, you can limit the amperage to your AGMs or lithium from the alternator with a B to B successfully, I think, I looked at it extensively. The only hard part is their profiles will often leave the AGMs less than full and they don't have a method of locking them into absorption. If they have a lithium setting that is untimed you would be OK and it would limit to the capacity of the B to B.

You can also use a Balmar on the alternator to do it as long as you don't need to go under 50% of alternator capacity. You can get on fixed setting of 50% reduction and another setting that can be changed in the range of 50-100%. They can be toggle switch controlled.

I realized the oopsie after the fact. I contacted Powersaver back in 2013 for a plain B-B and their prices in volume were less than $40/unit but I wasn’t interested going into a business. Let’s see what the price will be for the SDC-1140A.

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by hbn7hj

Don't know about Hymer (how easy is it to remove?) but our thought is to remove the lithium and bring it indoors when the van is in storage. The AGM should be able to handle most any temperature.

I'm all in with an 800ah lithium battery bank. It makes no sense spending that kind of money for a small amount of lithium for very little gain. My 800ah Lithium ion takes a minimum space of 19" x 24-1/2" x 9-1/2" block without all the wire attachments. So, de-couple this every time you want to put your van in storage.



Two inexpensive 12V 6-1/2” x 14" 5 amp does the job in Minnesota winters.



Hey, but what do I know? I've actually had and dealt with lithium ion for 3 years.

[booster]

hbn7hj is talking about the hybrid system with a small lithium big AGM bank, I think, where you would just pop out a 50-100ah lithium standalone for cold weather and use the the larger AGM bank without needing heaters, etc. Easy storage outside even in very cold would also be much easier.

[Davydd]

Hbn7hj said he didn't know about the Hymer system and then went on about in general removing batteries, but time again in this forum, there has been speculation in general about removing lithium batteries to store them or keeping them inside the van in a climate controlled area. Both, IMO, silly ideas that most current owners of actual lithium ion batteries with an ARV or Roadtrek that dealt with them would entertain. Pleasure-way says nothing. Everything else is so new I wonder if the companies know. And as I said in other messages, it is a non-issue in the vast majority of the United States.

BTW, in my current plans for a new Class B van I am proposing putting the batteries inside but still with the electric heating pads. They may never come on as they seldom do now but it is simple insurance and less hassle than removing batteries or depending on, as was one proposal, an Espar system with diesel ignition pumping glycol or hot water and sounding like a jet engine.

[Bud]

"BTW, in my current plans for a new Class B van"

David I missed it, or lousy memory. Why a new B?

Thanks.

Bud

[avanti]

Originally Posted by Davydd

BTW, in my current plans for a new Class B van I am proposing putting the batteries inside but still with the electric heating pads. They may never come on as they seldom do now but it is simple insurance and less hassle than removing batteries or depending on, as was one proposal, an Espar system with diesel ignition pumping glycol or hot water and sounding like a jet engine.

The Espar proposal solves a different problem than your electric heating pads. Specifically, it would permit reasonably long-term outside cold-weather storage without shore power. I realize that you do not acknowledge this as a valid goal. Nonetheless, others disagree.

If I were interested in Lithium at this point (which I am not), I would likely do both.

[booster]

Originally Posted by Davydd

Hbn7hj time again in this forum, there has been speculation in general about removing lithium batteries to store them or keeping them inside the van in a climate controlled area. Both, IMO, silly ideas that most current owners of actual lithium ion batteries with an ARV or Roadtrek that dealt with them would entertain.

Isn't that silly idea exactly what you have done with the condo?

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by Davydd

……………………
BTW, in my current plans for a new Class B van I am proposing putting the batteries inside but still with the electric heating pads. They may never come on as they seldom do now but it is simple insurance and less hassle than removing batteries or depending on, as was one proposal, an Espar system with diesel ignition pumping glycol or hot water and sounding like a jet engine.

What is the hassle with hydronic heating, pushing a button. Not perfect but less expensive than buying an airconditioned garage.

If your Espar is so loud I would suggest getting it modified or fixed, if ARV is not capable you could contact Rixen. I have an Espar D5, is not quiet but it is not near the sound of a jet airplane. Could be your muffler is gone or leaking exhaust flexible SS tubing.